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Hillary Clinton vs Barak Obama - Page 3

post #61 of 78
If there is so much extra funding, then why are they cutting teachers due to funding issues EVERY year!

I've searched for a teaching job and got the responses such as: "Due to our budget, we were forced to cut 36 teachers and guidance counselors this year due to our budget", etc. These are from prominent/ highly conservative areas...

I gave up on the field of education due to lack of jobs, and believe me I applied as many places as possible! The only place I didn't was in Milwaukee (they have a residency requirement, and a poor school system with a very high turnover). I was out numbered by the many teacher candidates that had experience and were let go. This is not only my case, but for everyone of my classmates who decided not to teach in Milwaukee or move out of state...

I also see articles stating these facts everywhere!

http://edworkforce.house.gov/publica...tEdSummary.pdf
post #62 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by sofiecusion View Post
If there is so much extra funding, then why are they cutting teachers due to funding issues EVERY year!

I've searched for a teaching job and got the responses such as: "Due to our budget, we were forced to cut 36 teachers and guidance counselors this year due to our budget", etc. These are from prominent/ highly conservative areas...

I gave up on the field of education due to lack of jobs, and believe me I applied as many places as possible! The only place I didn't was in Milwaukee (they have a residency requirement, and a poor school system with a very high turnover). I was out numbered by the many teacher candidates that had experience and were let go. This is not only my case, but for everyone of my classmates who decided not to teach in Milwaukee or move out of state...

I also see articles stating these facts everywhere!

http://edworkforce.house.gov/publica...tEdSummary.pdf
NCLB wasn't funded right from the start: http://www.nea.org/neatoday/0305/cover.html
(that's a 2003 article from the NEA, National Education Association)

Why don't we ask teachers how we should reform education?
post #63 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by sofiecusion View Post
If there is so much extra funding, then why are they cutting teachers due to funding issues EVERY year!
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Around here , cause tax levy after tax levy, have failed.
people just do not have the money for increase in there tax.

around here 8 business have closed down in the last 2 months. 2 of them where good paying middle class jobs.
post #64 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zissou'sMom View Post
Even if it did come to 65% of my paycheck, I'd rather be poor than dead, personally, and for some people that is what it comes down to.
Your right, there health care plan will make more poor people for sure.
Poor is no way to live your life, been there done that it sucks. Now the goverment is driving people back into the poor house.
post #65 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by valanhb View Post
Back a few posts kittymonsters asked if any GOP had decided to switch sides if McCain is the only choice. Personally, I really like McCain overall. Of course there are some issues that I disagree with him on, but overall I totally support him. As for him comment about 100 years in Iraq...well, we're still in Germany, and we're still in Korea, and Japan too. Now we're pretty well welcomed there, but obviously if you had asked the Germans or Japanese in 1946 they would have had a different answer.

But if Huckabee were to be the GOP nominee, I think I would have to vote either Democrat or 3rd Party. I cannot in any good conscious support him.

As for healthcare, I think it's pretty well agreed upon that the system right now isn't working for a lot of people. 1 in 7 is what the commercials say. The difference between McCain and Clinton and Obama is whether it should be private or government run. Given the choice, I have to go with private. The government is notorious for screwing even fairly simple things up and making even small things cost exhororant amounts of money, I certainly don't trust them with healthcare.
My understanding is that both Clinton and Obama's health care proposals rely on private insurance.

Do you plan on accepting Medicare when you retire?
post #66 of 78
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by katie=^..^= View Post
My understanding is that both Clinton and Obama's health care proposals rely on private insurance.

Do you plan on accepting Medicare when you retire?
Are you actually saying that Medicare alone is good insurance? Um, yeah, if it were good there would be no demand for supplemental insurance, which even the AARP offers. But since I'm a good 30-35 years from retirement who in the heck knows what will be offered then, so I really haven't given it much thought. All I know is that everyone on both sides of my family who is retired has supplemental insurance in addition to whatever coverage they have with Medicare.

I'll admit that I really don't know the ins and outs of all the plans. I just did some research and you're correct, they are both based on private insurance. Yup, you uncovered my ignorance on the subject. Frankly, even reading up on their plans, I still don't know what they would actually mean, except that Hillary wants to make it mandatory like auto insurance is (because there aren't any uninsured drivers that drive up those costs, apparently), and Obama wants to make it more preventive (how do you legislate staying healthy, and by whose standards?). McCain appears to want to reform the system by more competition, improving the VA healthcare benefits, and offering tax credits (which were also a part of both Dem's plans).

I still like McCain's plan better, but overall that isn't one of my big issues. I just plain disagree with both Hillary and Barack on basic issues.
post #67 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by ckblv View Post
Teachers hate NCLB because it makes them be accountable.

I guess we will just go back to passing failing students. Kids are graduating from High School and they are ILLITERATE and can't even write legibly.

Teachers have no control, parents don't care and somehow that is the government's fault.

I REALLY would like to know HOW the candidates plan to force parents to care and how they plan to give control back to the teachers and force students to learn.

So, people want the government to regulate college tuition now? And that is less government? People can get scholarships, they can actually WORK their way through college. Why is it the Government's responsibility to give people a college education?
It seems like what I am seeing is, "What can the government do for ME"
What about, "What can I do for myself"
Seems like people SAY they want less government but when it comes to give-aways they want more, more, more. I guess that is human nature.

I think we have it made in this country.
Oh goodness. You cannot possibly work your way through college anymore. It is not possible, unless you have a really good full-time job already and go to school part-time. It seems like people my age who are struggling like heck to make it to graduation are looking at the people 5-10 years older who paid not neraly as much for their colleged educations and saying 'WTH?' I've gone through the numbers in detail with you before as to why you simply can't 'work your way' through college, look it up if necessary.

No Child Left Behind is a complete and utter disaster. It does not make teachers accountable, it makes students suffer endlessly and takes away from teaching time. They spend a great deal of time teaching students how to take tests, instead of teaching students. And, for the most part, they're only allowed a 1% exemption-- which results in students with severe disabilities being forced to take tests they are unable to read, which leads to frustration and nothing else.

Go to some of these classrooms someday, and then get back to me.
post #68 of 78
All of the teachers that I have talked to can't stand NCLB. I don't like the standardized testing. I have no problem with the government providing funding for education but I do have a problem with the government getting involved in the classroom. It should be left to the teachers and the school to decide the cirriculum. Educators shouldn't be handcuffed into teaching what is on some government mandated test.
post #69 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by ckblv View Post
Teachers hate NCLB because it makes them be accountable.

I guess we will just go back to passing failing students. Kids are graduating from High School and they are ILLITERATE and can't even write legibly.

Teachers have no control, parents don't care and somehow that is the government's fault.

I REALLY would like to know HOW the candidates plan to force parents to care and how they plan to give control back to the teachers and force students to learn.

So, people want the government to regulate college tuition now? And that is less government? People can get scholarships, they can actually WORK their way through college. Why is it the Government's responsibility to give people a college education?
It seems like what I am seeing is, "What can the government do for ME"
What about, "What can I do for myself"
Seems like people SAY they want less government but when it comes to give-aways they want more, more, more. I guess that is human nature.

I think we have it made in this country.
Seeing that college tuition rises faster than inflation every single year: http://www.nytimes.com/2006/10/25/ed...25tuition.html

Yes, I'd like the government to step in and see why there's been such a price increase.

It's almost impossible for someone to work and go to school full time. Once my husband got out of the military and decided to go to school he found that the GI Bill would only pay for 60% of his education. He worked full time, and went to school and we still have over 20k in loans.

Now some Universities are taking a proactive approach because they don't want the government to step in and start asking questions. Harvard has totally restructured how tuition is paid to them. They've decided to base how much a person pays based on how much their parents make.
http://www.bizjournals.com/boston/st...10/daily9.html

Other Ivy League Universities have followed Harvard's plan.

Essentially what I'm saying is that a college education is now mandatory to get any type of middle management job. A Masters Degree is now mandatory for any upper level job. Soon we are going to see some of our companies run by people with PhDs. This isn't a bad thing, but we have to make sure that people aren't in debit in the hundreds of thousands simply because they wanted an education. The system has to be retooled. If it takes a government investigation to do this then fine.
post #70 of 78
No one ever promised that life is easy. Life is hard but where there is a will there is a way and yes you can work your way throught college and thousands are doing it.
post #71 of 78
College is getting harder to pay for, and kids are moving out much later in life nowadays. There is no way right after college I could afford to live on my own, no way!
post #72 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by ckblv View Post
No one ever promised that life is easy. Life is hard but where there is a will there is a way and yes you can work your way throught college and thousands are doing it.
"Thousands" maybe. Considering there are 50,000 at my school alone, I'll buy that a couple thousand across the country might be.

I know one--just one-- person who is in the Air Force, and is a paramedic, who is 25 and is managing to get through college on his own with no loans. Everyone else is either lucky enough to have parents pay for it, or is going deeper and deeper into debt.

No matter how much you want to believe it, it just isn't the case. Life is hard, blahblahblah, everyone knows that. But it isn't good for our economy. People used to graduate from college, get married, buy a house, fit nicely into the consumer lifestyle that has kept our country so prosperous. Now everyone is too busy paying off their debt to do that, else their parents are much more strapped than they would have been even 10 years ago.

The average student graduates with 30k debt. When you went to school, how much was four years of tuition? Even adjusted for inflation? State school in Ohio is about 32k just for tuition now. Did you have $8,000 a year lying around when you were 18, on top of paying your living expenses?
post #73 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zissou'sMom
I know one--just one-- person who is in the Air Force, and is a paramedic, who is 25 and is managing to get through college on his own with no loans. Everyone else is either lucky enough to have parents pay for it, or is going deeper and deeper into debt.
One of my best friends has been working on his masters while he finishes up his career in the Marines (he has 2.5 years left until he retires). He's been paying as he goes. It's taken him a while but he's seeing the light at the end of tunnel and only has a few more classes to take.

I'm going back to school in the fall and am going to be paying as I go. I was going to attend the University of Cincinnati but decided to go the local community college to earn my associates degree before transfering to finish up my bachelors. The community college has articulation agreements with a number of local schools so the credits transfer towards the bachelors degree. The main reason I'm doing this is cost- $80 per credit hour compared to $260 per credit hour for a part time student at UC. One of the privately funded colleges in the area was close to $600 per credit hour. Ridiculous...
post #74 of 78
Well, college is very expensive, those college professors make big bucks.
I just don't see how it is the governments responsibility to put people through college.
My son went in the Army for three years and got a lot of college money that way. Most don't want to go that route. And no, it did not put him through college, I don't think it should. People don't appreciate what they don't have to work for. My son had the money from the Army and he worked all the while he was in college and his father and I helped also.
You do what you have to do. If you really want it bad enough.
Lots of really poor people have clawed their way to a college education.

So, now high college tuition is Bush's fault too?


As for No Child Left Behind, if it is such a failure and throwing money at it didn't work and all the teacher's hate it, then what is the solution?
I have heard alot of complaining but I haven't heard anyone offering up any solutions.

Just seems like it is easier to blame the Government for everything.
post #75 of 78
On the way to work I heard a political ad for Obama. In the ad it was mentioned that Obama was opposed to NAFTA and something about going after companies that leave the US for cheap labor and costs overseas rather than pay Americans to do the work.

If he's elected what does he intend to do about NAFTA? I want to see it repealed. How do you punish the companies that have left the US? Do you tax the goods they are shipping to the US so high that it doesn't become profitable for the company?
post #76 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by lookingglass View Post
Now some Universities are taking a proactive approach because they don't want the government to step in and start asking questions. Harvard has totally restructured how tuition is paid to them. They've decided to base how much a person pays based on how much their parents make.
http://www.bizjournals.com/boston/st...10/daily9.html

Other Ivy League Universities have followed Harvard's plan.
I'm curious to find out what they consider as the total income. I.e when I went to college I could not receive any financial aid because my dad's stock options were considered as part of the total income he received. So....by the time I went to college he was only making $40K or so....but since his gross annual income from his tax return was well above that number (over twice) I was disqualified from several financial aids.
post #77 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by lunasmom View Post
I'm curious to find out what they consider as the total income. I.e when I went to college I could not receive any financial aid because my dad's stock options were considered as part of the total income he received. So....by the time I went to college he was only making $40K or so....but since his gross annual income from his tax return was well above that number (over twice) I was disqualified from several financial aids.
I think what Harvard considers middle class and what actually IS the middle class is totally different.

I'm not asking for the government to step in and demand that Universities lower their tuition costs, but what I am asking for is for them to investigate why the price of a good education keeps going up. Because Harvard felt that this may happen they suddenly came out with a big new plan. Universities should be able to lower the costs to get students in the door.

Back on track to the OP of this thread.... sorry for the minor hijack.
post #78 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by Essayons89 View Post
On the way to work I heard a political ad for Obama. In the ad it was mentioned that Obama was opposed to NAFTA and something about going after companies that leave the US for cheap labor and costs overseas rather than pay Americans to do the work.

If he's elected what does he intend to do about NAFTA? I want to see it repealed. How do you punish the companies that have left the US? Do you tax the goods they are shipping to the US so high that it doesn't become profitable for the company?
He addresses this a little bit on his website.
http://www.barackobama.com/issues/economy/

There is some good information there under issues about all the things he would like to accomplish. He has some interesting statements about the possible need for a long term presence in Iraq as well.

I am very curious about who his VP choice would be. I read a something the other night from a Bill O'Reilly show interview with Ret Gen, Wesley Clark. Seems it is looking like he may be Hilary's choice for VP. That would be an excellent choice. I have to look up the info about the retired general that is talked about possibly being Obama's VP.
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