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New law: Palm Beach County approves pet spaying ordinance 5-1 - Page 4

post #91 of 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yosemite View Post
Unfortunately when governments get involved in making our decisions, those decisions don't always turn out to be for the greater good. I always try to remember that the people making these decisions "for us" are just human beings that are also capable of making errors. The thing I fear the most is that once governments enact laws, there will always be radicals out there trying to twist those laws and using those laws for their own agenda whether that be right or wrong.

I see this law as something that could be used and taken out of context and do more harm than good - we've already seen how things can be taken out of context just in this thread alone. That's what scares me the most.
Very true indeed
Also, lets not forget laws at a much higher level, like Federal and State. Your special interest groups, like the big animal rights organizations who have huge sums of money, pay for lobbyists to get laws pushed in THEIR favor. That IS happening now, I can tell you this. I am so much involved with legislation at state and federal level.. That is how I know that these small laws, such as the one in in this thread, are nothing more than a first step to a much larger plan. These laws are made to make you think they are for a good cause, but in the long run and in the end, they are for a totally different agenda.
post #92 of 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by AmberThe Bobcat View Post
That is how I know that these small laws, such as the one in in this thread, are nothing more than a first step to a much larger plan. These laws are made to make you think they are for a good cause, but in the long run and in the end, they are for a totally different agenda.
John, I have to disagree that that's the case everywhere, or even in most places. I grew up in Pennsylvania, and my grandfather bred Airedales in Delaware County. Palm Beach County's new ordinance reminded me so very much of the one in place in Delaware County back in the 70s, with license fees based on whether a dog was neutered, that I checked the current ordinances there yesterday, only to find that they haven't changed in over 30 years, i.e. people are still allowed to choose not to speuter (but are encouraged to), and to breed, but have to pay higher fees.

I find such "sliding fee scales" reasonable. Most of the towns in the county I currently live in limit the number of dogs people have (speutered or intact) by charging double the basic annual license fee for the second dog, etc.. I didn't see the logic in that until I was involved in a few situations where "pets" had to be removed from hoarders. One was just a few months ago, involved a great many large dogs and scads of cats "living" in horrific conditions, and left me totally heartbroken and discouraged. Although the dogs have all been neutered and placed, most of the cats are still in shelters. Our shelter ended up with a dozen adult male tabbies, who have since been neutered, but many of them are still "unadoptable", because they spray, and are almost feral in behavior. We managed to trade a few with another shelter, only by taking cats that were also deemed unadoptable.

Without the license fee ordinances, there would have been very little legal basis to intervene.
post #93 of 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by AmberThe Bobcat View Post
Very true indeed
Also, lets not forget laws at a much higher level, like Federal and State. Your special interest groups, like the big animal rights organizations who have huge sums of money, pay for lobbyists to get laws pushed in THEIR favor. That IS happening now, I can tell you this. I am so much involved with legislation at state and federal level.. That is how I know that these small laws, such as the one in in this thread, are nothing more than a first step to a much larger plan. These laws are made to make you think they are for a good cause, but in the long run and in the end, they are for a totally different agenda.
All I can say to this is that I do not share your fears.
post #94 of 107
I wonder how much each tag would cost....

Maine Coons can average 7-8 kittens a litter. If you are a good breeder, one female will have 3 litters every two years. So, if you are a small cattery with the usual 1 male for every 3 females, you should be technically safe under this law.

I wonder by how much more new pet owners will have to pay for the kittens when this new law is enforced.

ETA: Maine Coons have been known to have 10 kittens in a litter....
post #95 of 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by Abymummy View Post
I wonder how much each tag would cost....

Maine Coons can average 7-8 kittens a litter. If you are a good breeder, one female will have 3 litters every two years. So, if you are a small cattery with the usual 1 male for every 3 females, you should be technically safe under this law.

I wonder by how much more new pet owners will have to pay for the kittens when this new law is enforced.
It is similar to the law here so I would guess the fees would be similar too. We charge $25 for each altered dog, $50 for each unaltered dog and $10 for cats licenses if microchipped and speutered, $25 if not speutered - microchipping is mandatory and they will chip before licensing.

Breeders buy a breeders license (prices vary according to number of animals they have, but the one I seen being sold was $250 for the year for 2 male and 3 female cats) that gives them permission to breed and covers all of their cats or dogs in a breeding program (I know they have a max number of breeders but not sure what it is since we only supply pet tags) and the kittens/puppies up to 6 months at which point they must be registered with the city as a pet under the above guidelines or as a breeder under the breeder's license. If the breeder has any pets they must be licensed as pets as they are not part of the breeding program.

The only catch is that as a breeder you have to include the city's animal related bylaws with your contract when someone buys/adopts a cat to ensure they are aware that they have to license them.
post #96 of 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by mschauer View Post
All I can say to this is that I do not share your fears.
If you are a pet owner and enjoy your right to do so so, you should. I know, I am just pulling this stuff out of the air and making it up for my own sake Maybe I too, should live in ignorant bliss But, I love owning and sharing my life with my animals to much and will not let any one take away my right to do so. What the heck, lets do it right. Lets push for federal law for madatory spay/neuter. Mind as well get it over with now because you know what, it's coming. Most cat owners are not affected by these stupid laws yet, unless you own exotics like me or you own hybrids, such as Bengals. Yes, in some states you can not own Bengals. Dog owners are more aware of these laws, it's called BSL, Breed Specific Legislation.
post #97 of 107
Kind of like the pit bull law in Ontario. Recently 2 pit bulls were sent to Quebec to save their lives because they are not allowed in Ontario and the only other option was putting them to sleep. One of the dumbest laws I've ever seen or heard of. Thing is they don't even have to be pit bulls - just anything LIKE pit bulls. Makes me wonder about the mentality of the ones making the laws and enacting them.
post #98 of 107
Yep at the shelter we couldn't take a boxer mix because it looked so much like a pitbull that Animal Control would be all over it - seriously sad as it is a lovely dog and so gentle
post #99 of 107
Very sad about those pit bulls. Every pit bull that I have ever been around, has always been a wonderful dog. The truth is, any animal can bite or be aggressive. I am sure many of you remember the TV show, The Little Rascals. Turns out, there dog Pete or was it Petie, was a Pit Bull. But, back to spaying and neutering. You know, if all of us who are animal owners and lovers, would educate others about the importance of spay/neuter and responsible animal ownership, this includes thinking about your ability to care for the animal for it's life time and that just "getting rid of it" if you decide it wasn't right for you, is NOT an option, we could make a huge difference in the amount of animals needlessy destroyed, without having the goverment enacting more laws. Nothing is 100% however. The thing is about these laws. They may appear all good or that they will solve a problem, but many times they don't do anything at all or the law, even though it appears good, is there for a totally different reason. Ok, I said enough. I am sure everyone is tired of hearing me anyway
post #100 of 107
In theory, I'm in favour of this kind of law, but I do have reservations (not least of which is my natural repulsion at having a law for everything). I wish it was not necessary and that we could rely on people being responsible, but sadly that will never be the case

Spend a bit of time on somewhere like yahoo answers looking at all the questions about "I think my cat is pregnant", "what are the signs of a cat in heat" , "how old does a cat have to be to have kittens" etc. and it's easy to see where the majority of cats in shelters come from. I can't help wondering if a law will make any difference to such ignorance and indifference. I suspect many will just not neuter and not get a licence exempting them and hope they aren't caught.

I've had a look at the ordinance but it's very long so I've only got a general feel for it. I think it's imperative that there are exceptions for responsible breeders. I understand why some people are opposed to all breeding, but I would feel very sad if some of the lovely breeds we have became extinct. No Somalis or Abyssinians? No Bengals? No Siamese or Orientals? It would be a very sad day if that happened, imo, so there must be exclusions that responsible breeders are happy with (and it does look as though there are exemptions for breeders, although I've not studied them in enough depth to know whether I would be happy with them).

I think the heart of this law is in the right place, but I'm really not sure it is the right way to go about it.
post #101 of 107
Recent posts have concentrated a lot on concerns that laws like the PB one may infringe on personal rights.

Is there any recognition here that animals are suffering and will continue to suffer until *something* is done????

I wonder if it is possible to come up with a solution that someone isn't somehow able to interpret as infringing on their rights.
post #102 of 107
I thought that Petie was a bull terrier - not a pit bull dog. Are you talking about the white with black spots? Its a bull terrier.
post #103 of 107
No, Petie was indeed an APBT.

Bull terriers are smaller with egg-shaped heads.


Hijack over
post #104 of 107
Then what white with black eyes dog am I thinking of? I know the one in mind is a bull terrier..
post #105 of 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by mschauer View Post
Recent posts have concentrated a lot on concerns that laws like the PB one may infringe on personal rights.

Is there any recognition here that animals are suffering and will continue to suffer until *something* is done????

I wonder if it is possible to come up with a solution that someone isn't somehow able to interpret as infringing on their rights.
Unfortunately, animals have few rights to infringe on. Unless it is real abuse there is little in the way of laws to give them rights.

Animals in legitimate breeding programs are not suffering IMO and there should be exclusions in bills for legitimate breeders and I think it would be wrong to brush their rights under the carpet to pass a law, just as many animal rights bills do not pass because they fail to make exceptions for farm animals and their lobby groups ensure the bills do not pass. If such legitimate exceptions are made to begin with the laws would pass much more easily.
post #106 of 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by icklemiss21 View Post
Unfortunately, animals have few rights to infringe on. Unless it is real abuse there is little in the way of laws to give them rights.

Animals in legitimate breeding programs are not suffering IMO and there should be exclusions in bills for legitimate breeders and I think it would be wrong to brush their rights under the carpet to pass a law, just as many animal rights bills do not pass because they fail to make exceptions for farm animals and their lobby groups ensure the bills do not pass. If such legitimate exceptions are made to begin with the laws would pass much more easily.
But the law in question (which has already passed BTW) *does* include exceptions for breeders!!!
post #107 of 107
I know it does, I was talking in general since the topic moved on to how these laws should/could become more widely spread
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