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Oklahoma Law Blamed for Hispanic exodus

post #1 of 28
Thread Starter 
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22845808

As for this statement...
Quote:
"Oklahoma was settled by immigrants ... which means that diverse is normal in Oklahoma," said the Rev. Miguel Rivera, president of the National Coalition of Latino Clergy and Christian Leaders.
I never knew Native Americans were immigrants....

It mentions northeast Oklahoma as an area where large numbers are leaving. Well, NE OK is where I am from. It is one of the poorest areas in the country. I do think it is wrong for ILLEGAL (and I can't stress the ILLEGAL part enough) aliens to come in and take jobs that LEGAL residents could have, not to mention welfare, food stamps, health insurance, etc. Having lived there, I know that illegals DO receive these benefits, which are in turn, denied to a lot of LEGAL residents who need them.
post #2 of 28
I know what you mean about benefits. An illegal immigrant can get deep discounts (or even free) to send their children to college but I can't. And I don't make a lot of money. They get free health care, food stamps and many other benefits my family can't get.

I am all for legal immigration to the United States. But I'm strongly against any illegal immigration. I'd like to see the U.S. adopt a guest worker program but anyone in the country illegally should have to go back to their country first and stand in line for that guest worker pass. To be honest, I'm a bit tired of hearing the illegal immigrants complaining about crack downs because "we are not ciminals but are treated as criminals." They ARE criminals because they broke the law of the land by coming here illegally. Not to mention many of whom are stealing American citizen's I.D.'s (including our childrens SSN's) and running up big tax bills for unsuspecting Americans who are then held accountable by the IRS for that bill. I understand they are in a bad poisition and just want to provide for their families. But they are doing it at the American citizens expense. That said, I'm a tiny bit more sympathetic to the illegal worker who comes and works under the table for cash (and doesn't commit other crimes) rather then the one who steals/buys our Identities!

I think We need to:

1. Secure our borders
2. Adopt a guest worker program that doesn't reward those already here illegally. (They need to go home and apply for that worker pass.)
post #3 of 28
It's sad that the baby died. But I believe in closing the borders and to make all immigrants who come over here come over in a LEGAL way. They take all of our benefits who hard working Americans can't even get. I don't understand why they get all these benefits when illegal aliens don't pay taxes. It sucks that the baby died but I think that it goes back to the parents. They were the ones who didn't follow the rules. I hope I don't sound racists but if I moved to another country I wouldn't expect them to take care of me. Especially if I were there illegally.
post #4 of 28
I think it's WAY past time to crack down on ILLEGAL immigrants. Immigrants who are here with proper papers, work visas, etc., aren't here ILLEGALLY. They have nothing to be afraid of. It's the ILLEGAL ones that need to go. Exactly what part of "LEGAL" AND "ILLEGAL" do they not understand?
post #5 of 28
It's a needless tragedy that the Castorena baby died and the blame lies squarely with his parents, not with the new law. They were more concerned for themselves than for their baby. A parent's primary responsibility is to their child, and they should have gotten the baby medical attention no matter what the consequences would have been once their illegal status was discovered.

The quote from the student infuriates me - what nerve to compare the US to "a Nazi country". I hope she acts on her statement "There's no point of me staying here." In the meantime, she's *illegally* reaping the benefits of living in the US.

The United States is a sovereign nation and has every right to enforce its borders and immigration policy, as do the individual states. If the Oklahoma law is causing self-deportation, it's working.
post #6 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by KTLynn View Post
The United States is a sovereign nation and has every right to enforce its borders and immigration policy, as do the individual states. If the Oklahoma law is causing self-deportation, it's working.
Right on!
post #7 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pookie-poo View Post
I think it's WAY past time to crack down on ILLEGAL immigrants. Immigrants who are here with proper papers, work visas, etc., aren't here ILLEGALLY. They have nothing to be afraid of. It's the ILLEGAL ones that need to go. Exactly what part of "LEGAL" AND "ILLEGAL" do they not understand?
Exactly! And I especially take issue to the comment in the article where the woman said she felt like she was in a Nazi country that only sees color and she might as well leave. Well Excuse me.... but this is not a color issue at all! It's an issue of, you broke the law by coming here undocumented so YES, you might as well leave. I hope more of the folks who are here illegally are convinced by crackdowns to go back to their countries. I feel bad for their financial situation, yes. So we need to do something to fix our system and to allow workers to come here legally.
post #8 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by KTLynn View Post
It's a needless tragedy that the Castorena baby died and the blame lies squarely with his parents, not with the new law. They were more concerned for themselves than for their baby. A parent's primary responsibility is to their child, and they should have gotten the baby medical attention no matter what the consequences would have been once their illegal status was discovered.

The quote from the student infuriates me - what nerve to compare the US to "a Nazi country". I hope she acts on her statement "There's no point of me staying here." In the meantime, she's *illegally* reaping the benefits of living in the US.

The United States is a sovereign nation and has every right to enforce its borders and immigration policy, as do the individual states. If the Oklahoma law is causing self-deportation, it's working.
.... and....
post #9 of 28
The best way to stop illegal immigration is to crack down on the people who are employing them. Businesses are addicted to cheap labor that are easy for them to exploit and they have the political connections to keep the government from doing anything to really try to stop it. If they have to hire though a legal guest worker program than they will have to adhere to all of the labor rules that cover any other legal worker such as pay, hours worked, and child labor and that would take out the financial incentive for the businesses.
post #10 of 28
The thing is, it will take more then one solution for this problem.

1) Secure the borders. By fence, electronic fence, more people or some combination of. I'm not well versed in this sort of thing. There are people who are and they need to come up with the best plan and do it.

2) Pass more laws like OK and AZ that create an illegal unfriendly environment that will cause them to self-deport. (take away jobs the social services)

3) Continue and even step up on raids and deportation.

4) If there is a need in this country for these workers (and I'm not personally convinced there is, but a lot of people seem to think there is) then change the policies and procedures to enter this country legally. I have no problem with legal immigrants and if there is a need for it, then I have no problem with making it easier to emigrate here. Legally.

5) No amnesty. That would be a slap in the face to all those who are doing the right thing and coming here legally. Why should people who broke our laws be put in the front of the line? I heard a comment by one of the presidental candidates (can't remember who) about their amnesty program. They said that those who would be given amnesty would be put in the back of the line. Well, the back of the line is in the country they came from. Not here.

6) I personally think they should change the anchor baby law. I think atleast one parent needs to be a legal citizen in order for that baby to have automatic citizenship.

We need to face the fact that a country that is dependant on illegal labor economically is broken. I can't understand people who want the status quo to continue. It really isn't a good situation for the illegal's either. They are practically slave labor. This needs to be fixed. And fixed correctly.
post #11 of 28
I can't believe the guy who says he is losing workers as a result of the new law! If he paid the workers a decent wage he'd find people willing to do the jobs!
post #12 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by Telynn View Post

6) I personally think they should change the anchor baby law. I think atleast one parent needs to be a legal citizen in order for that baby to have automatic citizenship.

.
This would require a Constitutional Amendment. The Constitution states that everyone born on American soil is an American citizen.
post #13 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by katie=^..^= View Post
This would require a Constitutional Amendment. The Constitution states that everyone born on American soil is an American citizen.
Yep it would.
post #14 of 28
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by cata_mint View Post
I can't believe the guy who says he is losing workers as a result of the new law! If he paid the workers a decent wage he'd find people willing to do the jobs!
Exactly!

He shouldn't be running a business that relies on underpaid illegal immigrants.

This country was founded by immigrants, yes, but it is going to ILLEGAL immigrants that break it.
post #15 of 28
Sounds like the politicians in Oklahoma are just like the "Stop TNR" people. If the US were smarter, we'd be relocating our businesses back to Mexico, instead of China, but, oh, yeah, we HAVE to have our cheap prices....We didn't care about all the mom & pop stores who were put out of business by WalMart; why care about the starving Mexicans - unfortunately, the truth is that starving people are like starving cats - DESPERATE!!
And building contractors would have to charge more to pay more - and then the public would complain that housing is unaffordable!!!
post #16 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by catsknowme View Post
Sounds like the politicians in Oklahoma are just like the "Stop TNR" people. If the US were smarter, we'd be relocating our businesses back to Mexico, instead of China, but, oh, yeah, we HAVE to have our cheap prices....We didn't care about all the mom & pop stores who were put out of business by WalMart; why care about the starving Mexicans - unfortunately, the truth is that starving people are like starving cats - DESPERATE!!
And building contractors would have to charge more to pay more - and then the public would complain that housing is unaffordable!!!
So, from your post, you are FOR illegal immigrants, and support them being here because the cost of building a house is less? How about the amount of tax dollars that go to all the benefits that they get that actual citizens can't get? Don't you think if the US gets rid of people that are here illegally, who are getting health care (that US citizens can't get) that everyone's taxes may be reduced and just maybe those companies could pay real citizens the wages they should to build those houses?

And, if the US was smarter, we would be relocating the businesses back to the US, not Mexico.
post #17 of 28
There is still a significant amount of U.S. manufacturing being done in Mexico. Even before they started being undercut by Asian manufacturing there was still a very significant amount of illegal immigration from Mexico. That was what the amnesty and the supposed enforcement of the 1980's was supposed to take care of. Mexico is also our third largest supplier of imported oil. Last month we imported 1.48 million barrels a day from Mexico, yet there is still a flood of illegal immigrants from Mexico to work for slave wages. A lot of it probably has to do with things like the third wealthiest man in the world, Carlos Helu worth 67B, living in Mexico. Mexico has the means to take care of themselves and to advance beyond developing nation status but curruption prevents it from happening. We have been providing the safety valve for the frustration of their people so that the corrupt can continue with business as usual.
post #18 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by Denice View Post
There is still a significant amount of U.S. manufacturing being done in Mexico. Even before they started being undercut by Asian manufacturing there was still a very significant amount of illegal immigration from Mexico. That was what the amnesty and the supposed enforcement of the 1980's was supposed to take care of. Mexico is also our third largest supplier of imported oil. Last month we imported 1.48 million barrels a day from Mexico, yet there is still a flood of illegal immigrants from Mexico to work for slave wages. A lot of it probably has to do with things like the third wealthiest man in the world, Carlos Helu worth 67B, living in Mexico. Mexico has the means to take care of themselves and to advance beyond developing nation status but curruption prevents it from happening. We have been providing the safety valve for the frustration of their people so that the corrupt can continue with business as usual.
As of June 2007 Carlos Helu is the richest man in the world. He surpassed Bill Gates.

It is wealthy people on both sides of the border benefiting from this.
post #19 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by katie=^..^= View Post
It is wealthy people on both sides of the border benefiting from this.
While regular working people, on both sides, suffer. If the weathiest keep us arguing amongst ourselves, they are left to do as they will. Great plan and it works!
post #20 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by katie=^..^= View Post
As of June 2007 Carlos Helu is the richest man in the world. He surpassed Bill Gates.

It is wealthy people on both sides of the border benefiting from this.
i thought the richest guy in the world was the guy from india and all the junk steel mills?? granted i could be wrong. but yea, i know carlos passed gates.

Yes they need to change the law, if they want there baby to stay here, then they have to give it up, how they get shipped back to where ever it was they came from.

come here legal or dont come at all. Any US company that hires legals shoudl have the owner put in jail.
post #21 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by Telynn View Post
The thing is, it will take more then one solution for this problem.

1) Secure the borders. By fence, electronic fence, more people or some combination of. I'm not well versed in this sort of thing. There are people who are and they need to come up with the best plan and do it.
fyi - fences can be broken easily...usually less than 15 seconds. Fences just keep honest people out. Even if they built a fence, the illegal will just dig tunnels...or use the drug smuggling tunnels between Mexico and AZ/NM/CA.

Electric fence, well that might just provide a good fire works show if cranked up enough.

It's sad, yes, that the baby lost its life, but when you're breaking a country's law you run the risk. If this law is helping the illegals change their way of thinking on their "free living" in our country, then perhaps more states should enforce laws like this. Enforce the law, don't just scold the illegals and walk away.

If we amended the constitution for citizenship through birth it would h
have to be worded properly that differentiate babies of illegal parents and babies of U.S. citizens/LEGAL immigrants.

I think there are enough people in jail already...the owner of the business wouldn't serve enough time to get anything more than a slap on the hand. Perhaps if the owner/company was taxed enough so that the owner wound up with a net almost equal to what his illegals are earning would be enough for him to consider hiring U.S....then give tax breaks for those companies that do hire people legally here.
post #22 of 28
Just be ready for the higher prices that we, as consumers, will pay when employers raise wages to attract American workers for the jobs that illegal aliens are now doing.

A question to ask yourself, and myself also, will we be complaining loudly about prices going sky high? We sure will. YOu CANNOT have high wages and low prices both, just remember that people.
post #23 of 28
I'm fine with paying a higher price for a good or service if it means more/better paying jobs for citizens.
post #24 of 28
That is good then. I'll remember you said that.
If people say that and really mean it, maybe things can be turned around.
post #25 of 28
Sorry but I don't believe they'll go sky high. I think that is just what people want us to believe. They may go a little higher but I'd gladly pay the price. I know a lot of legal immigrants that would take many of those jobs. My ex husband for one. He is Iraqi and came here legally about 8 years ago and had a hard time competing with illegal immigrants for certain jobs. Construction, hotels, factory work etc. And he had his own construction business in his country. He even got passed up for a promotion, years ago that he was more qualified for. They gave it to one of the illegals because someone needed to be able to communicate with the other illegals working there. It's BS in my book. That is how he got rewarded for coming to the country legally and learning the language.
post #26 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by mzjazz2u View Post
That is how he got rewarded for coming to the country legally and learning the language.
That's one of the many problems about Illegals being here, it's a slap in the face to those doing it the right way.
post #27 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by catcaregiver View Post
That's one of the many problems about Illegals being here, it's a slap in the face to those doing it the right way.
Amen to that!!
post #28 of 28
You are also forgetting to mention the drop in our health care costs due to illegals leaving.
One hospital in Dallas tried to send a bill to the Mexican government for the unpaid medical expenses incured by illegal Mexican citizens coming to the ER for care. I believe the bill was for just a quarter of a year and it was over a million dollars. The government didn't pay, we all did.
Trust me, this will offset some of the higher labor costs.
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