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Health Insurance Issues

post #1 of 32
1/20/08 at 3:45pm
Thread Starter 
http://www.latimes.com/business/la-f...lines-business

Okay, I know, I put up a lot of health insurance threads. I'm obsessed with the issue because I've always had health issues myself. Then when I found out that the U.S. is one of the few nations that doesn't provide some sort of health care for its citizens I got even more obsessed with it.

This article is mainly about the problems of health insurance companies refusing care for people with health problems. What caught my eye was this paragraph:

"The government reported this month that the United States spent an average $7,026 per person on healthcare in 2006. That's more than double the amount spent in developed countries with single-payer insurance plans (where life spans are longer and infant mortality lower)."

So why aren't Americans making more of a fuss? Are most people happy with the health care plan they have? Am I alone in wanting to change the way we do this? Do most people just want to tweak the plan and not really make a major change?
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post #2 of 32
1/20/08 at 3:50pm
God! Don't get me started on the US healthcare system. I can rant on that topic for days and days and would probably get myself banned from here, LOL

I'll just sum up my thoughts.

The US Healthcare system SUCKS! And I'll leave it at that
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post #3 of 32
1/20/08 at 4:09pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Natalie_ca View Post
God! Don't get me started on the US healthcare system. I can rant on that topic for days and days and would probably get myself banned from here, LOL

I'll just sum up my thoughts.

The US Healthcare system SUCKS! And I'll leave it at that
Do you like the Canadian system better>>???


Folks in the US think they would be giving up rights to let a single payer system in....I did lots of research over the yrs about the different types and how they work...
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post #4 of 32
1/20/08 at 4:30pm
I think that when the term "universal healthcare" comes up, people misunderstand it and thinks that its somethiing "more horrible" than what it really is. IMO that's why you don't see a huge push for it.
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post #5 of 32
1/20/08 at 5:20pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by lunasmom View Post
I think that when the term "universal healthcare" comes up, people misunderstand it and thinks that its somethiing "more horrible" than what it really is. IMO that's why you don't see a huge push for it.
I think you're right. Personally, when I think of universal health care, I think of other programs (one example is Welfare) that is abused and misused. I also think of the size of the US versus many of the other countries with universal health care programs.

I am fortunate, I know this, because I have a great program through my employer, and it's very inexpensive for me, even though I have gone without health insurance before and it really sucked.

But I think it's hard for me to understand the necessity of a universal program because I am fortunate now. I would need to know the ins and outs of each proposal, as well as have a firm understanding of how it is on the other side of the fence. I guess I'm just in a situation where ignorance is bliss, and I'm not sure I'm ok with that.
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post #6 of 32
1/20/08 at 6:26pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Natalie_ca View Post
The US Healthcare system SUCKS! And I'll leave it at that
it does suck. Cause the people and the goverment, keep allowing the drug makers and lawyer(who drive up the cost of medical care, John edwards comes to mind) to rip us off.


But as i have said in the past, i do know several people who come down to the states for medial care. My back doctor is from up that way,according to him over beers, he told me that often his choice of traetments were limited when he had his office there.

anyway, i still think that once the price of medical care is some what undercontrol, things will be better.. just throwing money at it, in this state,must be making the drug companies and stuff dancing in evil glee
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post #7 of 32
1/21/08 at 1:03am
Thread Starter 
I think of universal health care as being like Medicare or Medicaid (California's version of Medicaid is MediCal) extended to everyone not just the seniors, poor, and disabled. I have Medicare and because my income is so low I also have MediCal. Before I became disabled I had insurance from my employers when I had a job.

I find Medicare and MediCal are much much better than any employer plan I had. There is zero paperwork, I just show my two cards to the doctor. Before the drug insurance program Congress passed, I could just show my MediCal to the druggest and he could tell me if the presciption was covered. Generally, the doctor and the pharmacist worked together to come up with a drug that would work for me. No hassle for me at all. Plus MediCal pays for the very most basic dental care, and glasses. The glasses aren't fashionable, but they are functional.

When Congress voted to add drug benefits to Medicare they made a big mistake because they put it through the insurance companies instead of controlling it themselves. Now I have to pay for drugs that I got free through MediCal -- even though my income stayed the same. Plus the insurance companies that provide these benfits keep gobbling each other up, so that I've had to change companies three or four times -- with different coverage, different ID cards, etc.

My basic premise is that the insurance companies make us pay more and control health decisions based on profit, not need. We should get them out of the picture altogether.

The Canadian system might need tweaking, but in Canada no one worries about going bankrupt because a car accident caused medical bills that they just couldn't pay. No child is afraid to tell their parents they are sick, because they know the money to pay for the doctor is going to take food off the table. It just ends a lot of fear. Not many Canadians would give up their health care system. I've read stories of American women going to Canada to have their babies because of the health care provided there. Stories about the Canadian system isn't going to solve the American problem.
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post #8 of 32
1/21/08 at 4:20am
the Canadian system is not the answer. I have come accross way to many people,who have come down to the states, to get the treatment that is needed. Along with the fact We have WAY more people then they do. SO if you come accross stories of long waits etc, just thing what it would be here.

everything here needs to be put under price controls.. But since to many people are gettting rich,no one will do it.
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post #9 of 32
1/21/08 at 7:06am
Quote:
Originally Posted by theimp98 View Post
the Canadian system is not the answer. I have come accross way to many people,who have come down to the states, to get the treatment that is needed. Along with the fact We have WAY more people then they do. SO if you come accross stories of long waits etc, just thing what it would be here.

everything here needs to be put under price controls.. But since to many people are gettting rich,no one will do it.
The answer is in a two tier system like we have here.

We have universal health care, which means that anyone and everyone regardless of income levels, can see a doctor when they need to and not have to worry about insurance companies dictating whether a test or treatment is appropriate for you.

Yes, there can be long waits for some tests due to limited equipmet, and longer waits for elective type surgeries. But that's a trade off that I'm willing to take so that I don't have to go through what poor Ping was going through with her constant bleeding and not being able to get anyone to treat her.

We are also starting to develope a second tier in our healthcare. Private clinics are opening up where if you have the funds or extra private insurance coverage you can pay to be treated there.

As well, if machines are so backed up our government will send you to the USA for tests and treatment, but they also pick up the tab for it.

The hospital I work for here is associated with the Mayo Clinic, in fact one of their doctors moved up here to head up our Cardiac Program and we work closely with the Mayo Clinic.

Our system works for us. And it would work in the USA too because it's paid for from our taxes. Instead of Canada sinking billions of dollars each year into the military and war, they sink it into programs that actually benefit us...like Healthcare and Pharmacare etc.

If the USA didn't sink so much money into their military and war efforts, they could easily do a nation wide universal healthcare program simply by funnelling that money into it.

Would that mean longer waits sometimes for tests and elective procedures? Probably. But it would also mean that the poor and destituted as well as the rich would get equal access to healthcare. And going to a two tier system means that the rich would probably elect to pay for expedited tests and treatments instead of having to wait, which would shorten waiting periods for those who cannot afford to be treated privately. But the point is that they could still be treated.

However, that doesn't seem to be their priority.
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post #10 of 32
1/21/08 at 8:13am
Quote:
Originally Posted by theimp98 View Post
the Canadian system is not the answer. I have come accross way to many people,who have come down to the states, to get the treatment that is needed. Along with the fact We have WAY more people then they do. SO if you come accross stories of long waits etc, just thing what it would be here.

everything here needs to be put under price controls.. But since to many people are gettting rich,no one will do it.
Price controls will make it worse. People are not motivated to give away their services without adequate profit. That is why we see more plastic surgeons than primary care doctors. When Medicaid and Medicare cut the amount they provide, more doctors stop taking these patients.
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post #11 of 32
1/21/08 at 8:37am
Quote:
Originally Posted by sharky View Post
Do you like the Canadian system better>>???
I personally find no flaws in the Canadian health care system. I must add though, that I don't have real health problems so perhaps I am not the best judge. I just have regular checkups and prescriptions...
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post #12 of 32
1/21/08 at 9:02am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Natalie_ca View Post
Our system works for us. And it would work in the USA too because it's paid for from our taxes. Instead of Canada sinking billions of dollars each year into the military and war, they sink it into programs that actually benefit us...like Healthcare and Pharmacare etc.
.
lol if we cut one then canada would need to increase there spending on the military, And no the system would not work here, What he have now is going broke in 2 years. We have much larger number of people then you guys do.

I just do not see your style system working here.
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post #13 of 32
1/21/08 at 9:07am
Quote:
Originally Posted by katachtig View Post
services without adequate profit. .

There is nothing wrong with adequate, profit, but that is not what they are making.,

pill cost a few pennis to make, cost me 300 dollars with no health insurance.
that is not a adequate profit. same drug, cost me a couple of dollars over seas.

Even the drugs compaines have addmittd they charge the US more to cover the cost of drugs for other places. AND people here just accept it. how sicking is that.

My doctor tell me that first 2 weeks of every month goes just to cover his insurance SO how much is insurance driving up the price of me going to see the doc?

sorry price controls would work for the people , and drug compaines would not be making 1000% or higher profit.
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post #14 of 32
1/21/08 at 9:29am
Quote:
Originally Posted by theimp98 View Post
There is nothing wrong with adequate, profit, but that is not what they are making.,

pill cost a few pennis to make, cost me 300 dollars with no health insurance.
that is not a adequate profit. same drug, cost me a couple of dollars over seas.

Even the drugs compaines have addmittd they charge the US more to cover the cost of drugs for other places. AND people here just accept it. how sicking is that.

My doctor tell me that first 2 weeks of every month goes just to cover his insurance SO how much is insurance driving up the price of me going to see the doc?

sorry price controls would work for the people , and drug compaines would not be making 1000% or higher profit.
All price controls will do is limit any choice we have. People won't do business at the lower prices. They will move onto another business.
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post #15 of 32
1/21/08 at 12:40pm
We definately need SOME health care! Between paying 100% of my husband's premiums and co-pays, his health care costs more than our rent and car payment combined!
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post #16 of 32
1/21/08 at 1:02pm
All I have to say is we need something better than what we have. Like Natalie said I went through heck trying to get to a doctor when I was bleeding. In the end it took a month to get into someone and still paid full cost. Going to the ER is not the option they do the bare min. then tell you to go see a doctor.

We have a real crappy insurance right now and its the best we can do. 40 something a week and we have to pay full cost of any meds and doctor bills until we hit over 1000 worth of bills then the insurance will kick in and pay something. So even tho we have it chances are we still can not afford to actually go to the doctor unless someone is dieing.
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post #17 of 32
1/21/08 at 1:05pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ping View Post
All I have to say is we need something better than what we have. Like Natalie said I went through heck trying to get to a doctor when I was bleeding. In the end it took a month to get into someone and still paid full cost. Going to the ER is not the option they do the bare min. then tell you to go see a doctor.

We have a real crappy insurance right now and its the best we can do. 40 something a week and we have to pay full cost of any meds and doctor bills until we hit over 1000 worth of bills then the insurance will kick in and pay something. So even tho we have it chances are we still can not afford to actually go to the doctor unless someone is dieing.
I think of the problems you've had every time there's a thread about universal health insurance. Those who have good insurance coverage through their employers, or who can afford a good private plan, just can't fathom how difficult it is for those without.
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post #18 of 32
1/21/08 at 1:16pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jcat View Post
I think of the problems you've had every time there's a thread about universal health insurance. Those who have good insurance coverage through their employers, or who can afford a good private plan, just can't fathom how difficult it is for those without.
I guess thats the case. Some people do have insurance but its crappy like ours now that really we can't use because they have to pay 1,000 or more of out of pocket costs before insurance will pick up anything. So really I am paying for something every week for something I can probably never use because its hard to come up with a few hundred dollars for a doctors appt. And this is through his work.

And I will be honest before that happened I was not really in favor of unversial health care. I was coming around to it but was not fully sold on it. But when that happened and I saw I could not get seen, there was no programs to help me and no doctors willing to help that I saw how important this is. Imagine how many people are right this minute going through what I went through or worse and yet can not get any help. Its sad.
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post #19 of 32
1/21/08 at 1:36pm
It is sad. I've had experience with both the U.S. system, where I was covered first by my parents' employer-based health insurance, then by my ex's, and later by my employer's group plan, which didn't cover my husband, and the "two-class" German system, which provides everybody with basic care, but also allows those who want more coverage to take out private insurance, and I find the latter much better. It's not perfect, and there have been cuts the past few years, but you do get affordable care when needed.
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post #20 of 32
1/21/08 at 2:37pm
Thread Starter 
The World Health Organization ranks France No. 1 in the world for their health care system and I think it is a two-tier system like the one you are describing in Germany. I'm going to check.

To me, the most important thing is to have coverage that does not include the insurance companies. If we paid in taxes what we pay for private insurance we could have a health care system even as we fought a war. We have to pay for health care one way or the other, so why pay all the extra money for insurance company administrative costs and so that they can have a profit?

Ping, I am sorry you had to go through all of that. Was there a thread where you discussed this? Because I missed it.
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post #21 of 32
1/21/08 at 2:45pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by katie=^..^= View Post
The World Health Organization ranks France No. 1 in the world for their health care system and I think it is a two-tier system like the one you are describing in Germany. I'm going to check.

To me, the most important thing is to have coverage that does not include the insurance companies. If we paid in taxes what we pay for private insurance we could have a health care system even as we fought a war. We have to pay for health care one way or the other, so why pay all the extra money for insurance company administrative costs and so that they can have a profit?

Ping, I am sorry you had to go through all of that. Was there a thread where you discussed this? Because I missed it.
OT for a moment:
There was several I think back in July and August. Here are the links:
http://www.thecatsite.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=140281
http://www.thecatsite.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=137424
http://www.thecatsite.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=137156
http://www.thecatsite.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=137267
http://www.thecatsite.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=137146
http://www.thecatsite.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=136669
http://www.thecatsite.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=136966
http://www.thecatsite.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=136874
http://www.thecatsite.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=136117
http://www.thecatsite.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=135725
http://www.thecatsite.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=135657

Man I made a lot of topics on that issue. Anyways the top one is the most recent (Aug.) the bottom was the beginning.
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post #22 of 32
1/21/08 at 2:54pm
Thread Starter 
http://www.commondreams.org/views01/0309-03.htm

This is a very quick read of an experience with the French health care system.

The French system is much complex than I imagined, and not the two-tier system like Germany. This little article doesn't really explain why it is so much better than many other countries.

Thank you Ping, for the links.
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post #23 of 32
1/21/08 at 5:27pm
I do have a question though and perhaps this is why we don't have a universal healthcare (among other things).

If we do pay taxes for a universal healthcare to the government, would that not create a monopoly on "insurance" -if you will- or will the laws of owning a monopoly not apply?
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post #24 of 32
1/21/08 at 5:39pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by lunasmom View Post
I do have a question though and perhaps this is why we don't have a universal healthcare (among other things).

If we do pay taxes for a universal healthcare to the government, would that not create a monopoly on "insurance" -if you will- or will the laws of owning a monopoly not apply?
Do you mean a monopoly by the government? I'm not sure I understand you question.
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post #25 of 32
1/21/08 at 5:48pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by katie=^..^= View Post
Do you mean a monopoly by the government? I'm not sure I understand you question.
More or less...i.e. if we were to have a universal healthcare funded by our taxes through the federal government would there be multiple programs that we are allowed to select from or would it just be "Here's your new insurance plan, like it or hate it". This insurance plan could be based on your needs, your income, or your age perhaps.

If its the latter, where you don't have a choice in what your plan is, then would that be considered a monopoly on our plan (if its the first obviously not)? Or does a monopoly not even apply in the case of the federal government?
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post #26 of 32
1/21/08 at 6:11pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by lunasmom View Post
More or less...i.e. if we were to have a universal healthcare funded by our taxes through the federal government would there be multiple programs that we are allowed to select from or would it just be "Here's your new insurance plan, like it or hate it". This insurance plan could be based on your needs, your income, or your age perhaps.

If its the latter, where you don't have a choice in what your plan is, then would that be considered a monopoly on our plan (if its the first obviously not)? Or does a monopoly not even apply in the case of the federal government?
what taxes? can you really afford to have more money taken out?
anyway i guess with all the people that seem to hate rich people and or business that are succsful, that people seem to think it is all right to charge us more money for the same drug how they make hugh profits.
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post #27 of 32
1/21/08 at 6:33pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by theimp98 View Post
what taxes? can you really afford to have more money taken out?
anyway i guess with all the people that seem to hate rich people and or business that are succsful, that people seem to think it is all right to charge us more money for the same drug how they make hugh profits.
Errrr....I meant as in I'm paying the Federal gov instead of my health insurance.

Soooo instead of me paying $65 a week to my health insurance provider, I'm paying that $65 a week to the feds for universal health care.

I would hope that the feds would put the reigns on the drug companies...they do through the VA. B claims he never spends more than $20 out of pocket when he visits...most of that $20 is for his meds (insulin and whatever else they give him) the rest is for the doctor's. Course, he doesn't have to pay anything...just had to visit Iraq during the first Desert Storm.
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post #28 of 32
1/22/08 at 3:02pm
Thread Starter 
Well you tried to ask your question in another way. I'll try to answer.

I hope other people might try to answer, too. Or maybe they have similar questions.

I think there would have to be one program at least at first. I'm thinking of what I have now. There is a co-pay with Medicare, but I don't know too much about it, because I am so low income that my co-pay is picked up by the program for the very poor, which is also a government plan, MediCal.

With Medicare, I can go to any doctor that accepts it, which in Los Angeles, seems to be all of them. I've never tried to see a doctor that did not accept Medicare. Most treatments are paid for by either Medicare or MediCal, my co-pay insurance. If I wanted a treatment, such as dental care, that was not covered, I could pay for it out-of-pocket. I could buy contact lenses or glasses frames out-of-pocket, for instance.

I lived in Miami, Florida, for a short time. It was harder to find a doctor who accepted Medicare there, because most of the doctors worked within certain insurance or HMO plans. I did find a very good doctor, though.

Of course if Medicare was extended, the kind of care covered by it would also have to be extended. Since it is now mostly for the elderly and disabled, I don't think it would be set up to handle well-baby and child care, or pregnancy. I consider this tweaking a plan, not setting up a whole new one.

Medicaid does cover both of those situations since it is for the very poor.

Does this answer your questions?
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post #29 of 32
1/22/08 at 8:11pm
I myself want LESS government in my life--and I certainly don't entrust my healthcare to the government.
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post #30 of 32
1/23/08 at 3:09am
I think a lot of people feel the same way you do Kellyyfaber. I think thats why there has not been a big push to do anything about the health care situation in this country. Don't get me wrong I would love in a perfect world for the government not to be involved but as it stands the health insurance industry is not gonna fix things on their own accord. And I can not help but think of all the people in this country who can not health insurance because of price. Try as they might insurance is an unattainable goal. Doctors change people without insurance a heck of a lot of money to see them. And treat them really bad if they don't have insurance. Then you have people that have been able to reach the lowest branch of health insurance but struggle with paying for it. And that lowest branch is just terrible. Pay a highish rate a week, pay a thousand or more before the insurance every kicks in. You might as well not have insurance at this rate.

We need to do something about this soon. We need something that will help people not hinder them when it comes to health care.
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