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Our cat is crying all the time!! HELP!
- Thread starter ahmed
- Start Date
None of this makes any sense to me. Perhaps you can clarify.
Were you planning to neuter him only when he "was interested" in mating, or when he started to spray? That's really not a recommended course of action.
And I don't understand why one vet, much less two, would recommend "waiting to see what happens" --- whatever that means --- instead of neutering at an age-appropriate time.
Cats can safely be neutered at 6 months, often a month or two earlier. Your cat is much older than that. It would be in your best interest and your cat's best interest if he were neutered ASAP. Neutering will certainly calm him down, which will lessen the constant crying (likely due in whole or in part to sexual frustration) and the risk of spraying. You're very fortunate that he hasn't done that at all --- don't press your luck, because once they start they often don't stop, even after neutering. Neutering also has health benefits.
Can I ask why you even want your unneutered cat to go outside? The extent of the existing cat overpopulation is truly astounding, and by letting your cat outside before he is fixed, it is inevitable that you will contribute to the problem. Please keep your cat inside exclusively until he is neutered, and also for about one month thereafter, since that's about how long it takes for the hormones to leave his system. During this roughly one-month period, it would still be possible for him to get a female cat pregnant.
I would think he's yowling because he senses a cat in heat and wants out, so this is very strange. He needs a trip to the vet - both for a check up to make sure he's not yowling because of pain or illness AND to be neutered, for all the reasons Robert pointed out.
PLEASE get your kitty neutered! I have never heard of a vet recommending a cat not be neutered. But to have two of these? My mind is reeling. There are so many health benefits to a cat being neutered - let alone behavior benefits - and the fact that an outside cat would be allowed to impregnate unspayed females?
I'm sorry you had to find TCS because your cat is yowling - but given what you describe, I'd think it's a medical problem. And please, please, please be responsible and do the right thing and have him neutered ASAP!
Laurie
PLEASE get your kitty neutered! I have never heard of a vet recommending a cat not be neutered. But to have two of these? My mind is reeling. There are so many health benefits to a cat being neutered - let alone behavior benefits - and the fact that an outside cat would be allowed to impregnate unspayed females?
I'm sorry you had to find TCS because your cat is yowling - but given what you describe, I'd think it's a medical problem. And please, please, please be responsible and do the right thing and have him neutered ASAP!
Laurie
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- #4
Dear all,
I'm consciously and perfectly capable of feeling responsible for the cat! I'm a physician myself and have good knowledge of the supposed "benefits" of neutering or spaying and I know that they have to be relativized, not to speak of the human moral dilemma of neutering in itself, which not too many people have come to ask themselves questions about! It's not about contributing to the feline overpopulation you're talking about, which I'm definitely keen on not doing, but it's about the human decision for the various other species existing around! It's an established existentialist moral dilemma that unfortunately not too many people get to think about, but some veterinarians accept as true! One veterinarian friend has not spayed his female cat because she never went in heat and she's perfectly healthy, because he doesn't see a need for this - from various points of view - immoral act when needless! So please no need to lecture about this! I was going to neuter the cat anyway, not because of these moral lectures, but because it's objectively good for him!
Moreover, not all male cats spray when they mature! It's a common wrong idea! So many cats, with various behavioral patterns, never spray in their lives even if not neutered!
When I mentioned his not wanting to go out, it was first to exclude that he's in need for mating (when we were living in a place where there were several stray cats, and of course we wouldn't let him out even if he wanted to), and to exclude the possibility of his wanting more space for play or other as a possible source of annoyance (and this is in a place where we're living currently where there are absolutely no stray cats!) It's in our backyard! There's no chance for him to impregnate any cat, which we're fully aware of! Besides, Robert, when you neuter or spay your cat, they're immediately sterile and that's an established medical fact, because it has nothing to do with the hormones, but with the sperms and ova produced and stored in the testicles and ovaries respectively! To leave him/her for the longest possible period is also recommended to allow for his sexual hormones to contribute to his full physiological and anatomical growth! This is also an established medical fact! Another common wrong idea is that once spraying starts, it's there forever! Which is also not true for most cats and is potentially behaviorally-controllable!
My question was mainly aiming to see if there are behavioral treatments to his problem, apart from neutering which I'll do!
I'm consciously and perfectly capable of feeling responsible for the cat! I'm a physician myself and have good knowledge of the supposed "benefits" of neutering or spaying and I know that they have to be relativized, not to speak of the human moral dilemma of neutering in itself, which not too many people have come to ask themselves questions about! It's not about contributing to the feline overpopulation you're talking about, which I'm definitely keen on not doing, but it's about the human decision for the various other species existing around! It's an established existentialist moral dilemma that unfortunately not too many people get to think about, but some veterinarians accept as true! One veterinarian friend has not spayed his female cat because she never went in heat and she's perfectly healthy, because he doesn't see a need for this - from various points of view - immoral act when needless! So please no need to lecture about this! I was going to neuter the cat anyway, not because of these moral lectures, but because it's objectively good for him!
Moreover, not all male cats spray when they mature! It's a common wrong idea! So many cats, with various behavioral patterns, never spray in their lives even if not neutered!
When I mentioned his not wanting to go out, it was first to exclude that he's in need for mating (when we were living in a place where there were several stray cats, and of course we wouldn't let him out even if he wanted to), and to exclude the possibility of his wanting more space for play or other as a possible source of annoyance (and this is in a place where we're living currently where there are absolutely no stray cats!) It's in our backyard! There's no chance for him to impregnate any cat, which we're fully aware of! Besides, Robert, when you neuter or spay your cat, they're immediately sterile and that's an established medical fact, because it has nothing to do with the hormones, but with the sperms and ova produced and stored in the testicles and ovaries respectively! To leave him/her for the longest possible period is also recommended to allow for his sexual hormones to contribute to his full physiological and anatomical growth! This is also an established medical fact! Another common wrong idea is that once spraying starts, it's there forever! Which is also not true for most cats and is potentially behaviorally-controllable!
My question was mainly aiming to see if there are behavioral treatments to his problem, apart from neutering which I'll do!
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #5
One more thing, animals do not suffer from "sexual frustration"! This is human projection! What animals undergo is a completely different emotional and physiological state, that we, humans, cannot properly describe because unexperienced by our species-centric culture!
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #6
Just as an example, see the following webpage:
http://www.hsus.org/pets/pet_care/wh..._your_pet.html
The benefits of neutering and spaying mentioned there in relation to the animal itself are mostly ridiculous! Because it's obvious also for humans, that if you remove an organ, it'll eliminate the incidence of cancer developing in the organ itself, because it's no longer there!!! However, this didn't drive any human to remove their breasts, testicles, ovaries, uterus, etc.
All the other benefits for the owner and the so-called community are shameful to speak about and they show how our thinking is so controlled by our own benefits and concepts and not only this, we try to portray these egoistic concerns as ones based on caring for other species!
Guys, I'm not crazy or anything! There are other people also interested in the philosophy and morality of what we commonly call animal rights and if anyone is seriously interested in this question, I'll be more than happy to exchange with them on these issues!
http://www.hsus.org/pets/pet_care/wh..._your_pet.html
The benefits of neutering and spaying mentioned there in relation to the animal itself are mostly ridiculous! Because it's obvious also for humans, that if you remove an organ, it'll eliminate the incidence of cancer developing in the organ itself, because it's no longer there!!! However, this didn't drive any human to remove their breasts, testicles, ovaries, uterus, etc.
All the other benefits for the owner and the so-called community are shameful to speak about and they show how our thinking is so controlled by our own benefits and concepts and not only this, we try to portray these egoistic concerns as ones based on caring for other species!
Guys, I'm not crazy or anything! There are other people also interested in the philosophy and morality of what we commonly call animal rights and if anyone is seriously interested in this question, I'll be more than happy to exchange with them on these issues!
There also tend to be cultural biases regarding neutering - societies where males are seen as being dominant consider neutering to be almost a personal attack, whereas others understand and appreciate that animals cannot take care of themselves in our urban environment and we must do it for them - not out of a sense of wanting to control them, but because it really is the smart thing to do for their sakes. Sometimes we try very hard to justify things because of our personal backgrounds, but if we're intelligent, we also recognize that and try to overcome it.
I'm sorry you were offended, however, from your post there was no way to know that your un-neutered male that is allowed to go outside has no access to females in heat. Being a site that promotes education about the homeless cat population, naturally we encourage anyone who finds The Cat Site to spay and neuter their animals. If you are at all aware of the extent of the cat overpopulation/homeless problem that exists both in the U.S. and around the world, there simply is no moral dilemna as regards steriliziation.
As a physician, you may be interested in reading this article on early age spaying/neutering: http://www.winnfelinehealth.org/Page...tering_Web.pdf
Also, the veterinarians you have seen and your vet friend may be interested in the American Veterinary Medical Association's position on Animal Welfare ( http://www.avma.org/issues/policy/an...on_control.asp ), which includes in section A "Public Policy," point 4
If it turns out there is not a medical problem, perhaps others here may have advice.
My best,
Laurie
As a physician, you may be interested in reading this article on early age spaying/neutering: http://www.winnfelinehealth.org/Page...tering_Web.pdf
Also, the veterinarians you have seen and your vet friend may be interested in the American Veterinary Medical Association's position on Animal Welfare ( http://www.avma.org/issues/policy/an...on_control.asp ), which includes in section A "Public Policy," point 4
and Section C "Education," point 4
...as to your initial question, the rule of thumb is that any change in behavior should arouse suspicion that there is a problem with the animal's health. This would seem like one of those times to me.
If it turns out there is not a medical problem, perhaps others here may have advice.
My best,
Laurie
Yes, but we have the intelligence to change our diets and adapt what we do to compensate for potential health problems. The cats rely on us to do this for them.
It has nothing to do with egoistic concerns. It has to do with the fact that there are between 60 million and 100 million homeless cats in the United States alone - and the cats are not responsible for this, people are. Cats mate because of instinct, they cannot choose not to mate. People created the problem, and people have to solve the problem - and cats and dogs not being allowed to procreate on their own is the only solution.
I don't think you're crazy. I think you've never had 20+ feral cats fighting on your property. I think that perhaps you've never been to an abandoned building. The problem is so bad in Florida that the State has passed a law that basically allows people to hunt cats in protected wilderness areas. I have a moral problem with that! Florida doesn't make spaying and neutering mandatory - but they allow people to hunt cats.
I'd love to debate animal rights - but only if when you have mice in your home you don't put out anything but humane traps so you can release the mice elsewhere, and if you catch spiders and put them outside, not if you kill them.
Companion animals have the right to a home and guardianship, and it is our responsibility to see that they are not able to procreate without ensuring that right.
Being new to TCS, you would not be aware that this particular discussion belongs in the IMO forum. If you would like to have or continue the debate, let's start a new thread on Animal Rights there. ?
Again, all my best,
Laurie
Also, don't forget that the indoor/outdoor debate is different in other countries than the US...
That said, what breed is your cat? There are certain breeds that are much more vocal than others.
That said, what breed is your cat? There are certain breeds that are much more vocal than others.
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #11
Dear Laurie,
Thank you for your kind reply and interesting references! I'm aware of the existing paradigm and perfectly aware of the "overpopulation" problem, but put this paradigm in question which I think is legitimate! Most of our vets and vet friends are unorthodox, if you wish, though perfectly aware of the prevalent paradigm and generally advise for neutering and spaying when it's necessary!
Dear Larke,
It's not about any personal bias or background! I don't see why you got to assume a personal prejudice against me!!! Sorry to have to say this here, but by the way I'm a progressive feminist atheist, if this matters at all, and I'm posing the question of sterilization on abstract moral philosophical grounds and not on any gender-biased ground, for some reasons related to the human belief that we're the superior species, that we know the best for all other species, that we're the center of the universe and that other species are annoying us or disturbing "nature" by their "overpopulation" (which is a very relative term that neglects the fact that our urban environment had violated their own biome). What about our own overpopulation and how it annoys many other species?? Not to speak of those we exterminated directly or indirectly?
So it's not about being biased by one's own "background" or being intelligent, but it's about a moral responsibility and a moral burden that we have to assume if we cannot find a batter way! That's why I posed this question on this specific ground!
Thank you for your kind reply and interesting references! I'm aware of the existing paradigm and perfectly aware of the "overpopulation" problem, but put this paradigm in question which I think is legitimate! Most of our vets and vet friends are unorthodox, if you wish, though perfectly aware of the prevalent paradigm and generally advise for neutering and spaying when it's necessary!
Dear Larke,
It's not about any personal bias or background! I don't see why you got to assume a personal prejudice against me!!! Sorry to have to say this here, but by the way I'm a progressive feminist atheist, if this matters at all, and I'm posing the question of sterilization on abstract moral philosophical grounds and not on any gender-biased ground, for some reasons related to the human belief that we're the superior species, that we know the best for all other species, that we're the center of the universe and that other species are annoying us or disturbing "nature" by their "overpopulation" (which is a very relative term that neglects the fact that our urban environment had violated their own biome). What about our own overpopulation and how it annoys many other species?? Not to speak of those we exterminated directly or indirectly?
So it's not about being biased by one's own "background" or being intelligent, but it's about a moral responsibility and a moral burden that we have to assume if we cannot find a batter way! That's why I posed this question on this specific ground!
You are risking a lot of things by not neutering him! (1) cancer (2) unwanted kittens (don't under estimate a tom) and (3) spraying.
You are VERY lucky he hasn't had any of the above. Its far better health wise to have him neutered. It will change is behavior to the better. Sooner or later HE will try to get out and breed. Then you not only risk the above, but throw in medical bills to "patch" him up from fighting other toms, or contracting FELV/FIP from stray cats.
If you love him you will neuter him!
You are VERY lucky he hasn't had any of the above. Its far better health wise to have him neutered. It will change is behavior to the better. Sooner or later HE will try to get out and breed. Then you not only risk the above, but throw in medical bills to "patch" him up from fighting other toms, or contracting FELV/FIP from stray cats.
If you love him you will neuter him!
