Biting

Originally Posted by Psychopomp

Like I said before, I would never hurt an animal. Yes, she gets swatted when she bites me... hard enough for it to sting for a while, but not to injure her in anyway.

I love my little cat, she just has to learn that this is my house and she was adopted into it. When I lose blood unexpectedly and by force, I'll react and usually not in a overly plesant manner.

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She already knows it's your house. You provide the food and take care of her. Does she bury her poo? If she does that's a clear sign she doesn't think she's the big boss cat (although sometimes cats don't bury their poo for other reasons than think they're boss cat, they might just not like the litter for example).

You being bloodied is unacceptable but hitting her, even if it's not hard enough to damage her physically, WILL damage your relationship with her in the longer term. If you care about her and you obviously do, please try and restrain yourself.

Just the body language you will inevitably give off when you get hurt is probably more than enough to tell her that you're unhappy with what she's doing. You can also try more indirect ways of startling her (have a box of coins to rattle or airspray to make a hissing noise).

Actually hissing at her yourself can also be really effective.

I think you're right in that the biting was probably because you missed out on a play session. You are the highlight of her day and ankles and feet can be irresistable to energetic active and somewhat bored cats. The feet move a bit like prey and without another outlet for the cat's natural hunting behaviour it's all to easy for our ankles to become prey! heh..

That's really not ok though and you're right to take steps to train her to behave but with cats the best result is usually to work with the cat and redirect them when you see a bad thing is about to happen.

Brute force punishments especially if it's directly associated with you rather than indirect (and this includes hitting) will damage her trust in you and a cats trust once lost can be very hard to regain.

Actually hissing at her yourself can also be really effective.

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I was amazed at how well this helped me break my cats of their biting habit.

Psychopomp,pets have been known to bite when they're unaltered,in which case they're being territorial. Or they might bite because they may have a psychological disorder,in that case,they may be unsuitable as pets and have to be put down.

Originally Posted by Psychopomp

Like I said before, I would never hurt an animal.

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You probably already did though?. And i quote...

Originally Posted by Psychopomp

Yes, I'll smack her pretty hard

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So you smack her hard then it'll hurt

I've been bitten and scratched so many times but i'll never ever hit my cats no matter what because i love them too much to hurt them

Originally Posted by Rosiemac

You probably already did though?. And i quote...

So you smack her hard then it'll hurt

I've been bitten and scratched so many times but i'll never ever hit my cats no matter what because i love them too much to hurt them

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I agree. If you can't be consistent with the hissing back at her and firmly saying NO, and have the patience to teach your cat better manners, please give her up to someone who will not hit her for any reason.

Bijou is probably the most wonderful cat we've ever had but when he was young he often chased my legs and feet when I would be walking. I used the hissing and air-blowing in his face. It took some time but it worked and I had blood drawn on more than one occasion. I would NEVER have hit him.

You need to start thinking of her as a CAT - not a human being that understands English and responds to your command. I'm not remembering if someone asked before if she has been de-clawed. De-clawed cats often resort to biting.

A trick I learn long ago and I'll repeat it again.

Hissing is great but "bite her back"
She never got through the phase and learned biting hurts.

After they are about 6-9 months old they should have learn this from other cats.

I had a black cat Spooky who would bite randomly.
He was over a year old.
Someone told me to bite him back.

He bit me one day so I bit him back hard.
He screamed and I said "hurts don't it?"
I swear he never did it again.

I have used it since then with the same results.
You don't need to break the skin or anything just a strong bite that hurts them back.

Sounds wierd but it works.

Originally Posted by laserray

He bit me one day so I bit him back hard.
He screamed and I said "hurts don't it?"

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I really don't know which is worse, hitting or biting?!

He's a cat not a small child, so he doesn't know any different.

I've never heard of anyone biting their cat until now and i really hope i never have to again

My kitten, Ramses does the same things. If i'm putting my feet in my bed, he will attack my legs, but he doesn't hurt me when he does that. Sometimes walking around, he will attack. But again, no pain then. But he does attack me sometimes when I'm petting him. Than I stop, and he continues to attack my hand. Usually a strong "no" gets him to stop but sometimes I'll have to push him away. I do not hurt/hit him because I couldn't do that. But its really aggravating. Luckily he hasn't drawn blood, but I'm hoping this is something he will grow out of. He also has this thing where his ears will go back and his eyes go all crazy. He runs around the rooms like a complete nut. Its kinda scary. Hes a black kitten with white paws. and my cousin in tx has a black cat that once went totally nuts, running around the rooms like crazy and it was really nuts. Her cat looked like he was gonna hurt someone and we had to get the kids out of the house in case he did or tried too. This happened about 4 years ago and I have a different cat that i love lots. I'm just worried that black cats have a habit of doing this...or if its normal??? Not too sure...Any advice would be helpful. thanks

Well, let see if we can reason with the cat, just so we don't offend anyone.

ya, right.

What kind of liberal, vegetarian world are you in?

The kitty doesn't understand it hurts, it's part of growing up with others.
You can say what you like, but it works.
When suggested to me, I thought it was crazy, but I don't want a cat that bites.
You only need to do it once or twice. And I really don't think it's being cruel.

Hitting the cat would only confuse it. You be hitting the cat a lot.

I'm suggest trading a bite for a bite. Think about it, it's logical in a the cat's world. Like killing birds and mice (oops there I go again)

I would only do so because I know it works, period.

Sorry If I offended you.
Maybe you reason reason better with a cat then I can.

No one's suggesting she try reasoning with the cat. If you'd read the rest of the thread, you'd see we suggest the noise of an air can (NOT pointed at the cat) or using hisses or short, sharp puffs of air in the face. Our cats certainly understood this - as, apparently, have many others.

The only reasoning we're trying to do is with people who see logic in hurting their cats, where thankfully most of us simply see that as unnecessary and unacceptable.

Laurie

Originally Posted by Siggav

Actually hissing at her yourself can also be really effective.

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Tried that with Zane. Doesn't seem to have worked.

I agree that biting back seems very logical. And judge me if you will but I intend on trying it--I will no longer accept bloodshed with my kitten. I would never hit my cat--I understand it solves nothing. But momma cat and sister and brother cat would bite back--in this house I am momma cat.

There isn't much other choice when puffs of air, water, cans with coins and hissing fail. I love him too much too not teach him right from wrong. I would never give him up for being a biter, but I also cannot bring children into a home where it isn't safe. My immune system is one thing I am an adult. Their immune system is completely different.

To the OP--bite back

Leslie

Originally Posted by Siggav

You being bloodied is unacceptable but hitting her, even if it's not hard enough to damage her physically, WILL damage your relationship with her in the longer term. If you care about her and you obviously do, please try and restrain yourself.

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This is silly.

98% of the time she's a sweet cat and we play and have fun.

It's that random 2% when I'm physically hurt that damages my relationship with her. Maybe it's her animal instinct to bite at me, but it's also my fight or flight reaction kicking in. People are animals too, we have instincts to protect ourselves from unforseen random damages.

I'm not smacking her off of my leg because I want to. I'd prefer not to experience the feeling of her fangs ripping through my skin in the first place. Abuse is smacking them around for no reason and I would never do that. Discipline is smacking them around when they deserve it (and if you saw the scars on my legs you'd be hard pressed to tell me I'm doing something wrong).

She's been good for the last week... except she's learned that sticking her whiskers up my nose is a good way to wake me up at 3:30am... but I can live with that. In fact she's becoming a lap cat, little by little she's choosing to sit in my lap or lie on the couch with me.

She has been getting some rough play lately too and maybe that's helping. I've got some heavy duty shooting gloves that she can't bite through. Unfortunately, the right index finger is only a half finger (so you can still shoot your gun with ease) and Briza's latched onto that one a few times... but oh well.

I've also made her a little spot that's just her own. I cleaned off the top of a book shelf in the bedroom and put her pillow and beaver puppet on it and she nests there (which she's doing right now).

Don't take from anything that I've said that this isn't a very well loved and cared for cat.

Originally Posted by Psychopomp

Abuse is smacking them around for no reason and I would never do that. Discipline is smacking them around when they deserve it

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Sounds like what abusive husbands say about hitting their wives - they deserved it. I really cannot agree with that type of "logic". Abuse is abuse - you can sugar-coat it any way you want to justify why you need to "smack" her around, but it doesn't change the fact that it IS abuse. Poor cat.

Originally Posted by Yosemite

Sounds like what abusive husbands say about hitting their wives - they deserved it. I really cannot agree with that type of "logic". Abuse is abuse - you can sugar-coat it any way you want to justify why you need to "smack" her around, but it doesn't change the fact that it IS abuse. Poor cat.

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Your logic is faulty here, not mine.

By your logic, only the big bad person can be the badguy here. Try to keep that in mind if you ever catch your cat with your blood all over its face... remember that you're in the wrong, not the cat. Especially if it bites you while you're asleep... remember, somehow you caused that to happen.

I'm also glad you chose to omit the sentences preceeding what you quoted from my post. The cat is the one hurting me and kicking or swatting her off is my only means of keeping her from hurting me worse. And by kicking I'm sure you assume I'm punting her into the wall... no, a kick of the leg to knock her off.

And I'm done with all of this. I come here looking for help on getting this problem solved, and I thank everyone who gave me some advice. But telling me that I'm wrong for trying to keep my skin in tact and that I'm abusing my cat doesn't help me.

I love my cat and she knows it. I'm not hurting her.

Psychopomp, is Briza spayed? I quickly scrolled through the earlier posts and didn't see it mentioned, but forgive me if I overlooked it. Usually it's something that is established early on in a thread, particularly one concerning aggressive behavior. If she isn't spayed, that could very well account for much of her overaggression.

The good news is, you said that she has been better over the last week, and that 98% of the time her behavior is OK. That sounds like something positive for both of you to build on. Like LDG said earlier, sometimes behavioral changes can take a lot of time, depending upon the cat.

Have you considered looking into medication, such as Prozac? I don't get the impression that it's generally effective for a lot of cats, and some owners are opposed to its use entirely. Using medication like that is not something to be taken lightly, of course, but it's conceivable that it is what's needed to help move things further along.

It really does sound like you've been going through an extremely trying time with her. I'm certainly not here to judge your attempts at behavior correction or anything like that. I just can't help but think that with time and the right approach, she will become much more manageable. It's just hard to figure out exactly what constitutes the "right approach".

Originally Posted by Psychopomp

Your logic is faulty here, not mine.

I was disagreeing with YOUR logic in case you didn't notice.
By your logic, only the big bad person can be the badguy here. Try to keep that in mind if you ever catch your cat with your blood all over its face... remember that you're in the wrong, not the cat. Especially if it bites you while you're asleep... remember, somehow you caused that to happen.

I'm also glad you chose to omit the sentences preceeding what you quoted from my post. The cat is the one hurting me and kicking or swatting her off is my only means of keeping her from hurting me worse. And by kicking I'm sure you assume I'm punting her into the wall... no, a kick of the leg to knock her off.

Glad???? Sorry, again, I don't understand your logic

And I'm done with all of this. I come here looking for help on getting this problem solved, and I thank everyone who gave me some advice. But telling me that I'm wrong for trying to keep my skin in tact and that I'm abusing my cat doesn't help me.

Yes, you came for advice and information and you were given both - and the advice and information was NOT TO HIT your cat. You chose to ignore that advice and information and instead defended and tried to justify why you "smack her around". You can't have it both ways.


I love my cat and she knows it. I'm not hurting her.

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As Robert pointed out (ever so nicely), there are ways to teach your cat other than "smacking her around". That's all anybody here has been trying to teach you but you seem to have your mind set that you cannot teach your cat without hitting her so I guess you are right when you say you are done here since you seem unwilling to listen or learn. And again I say, poor cat.

Originally Posted by Psychopomp

Discipline is smacking them around when they deserve it (and if you saw the scars on my legs you'd be hard pressed to tell me I'm doing something wrong).

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This is really chewing me up reading this because i seriously hate seeing an animal of any kind being smacked!. And trust me your not the only one who has scars on your body through their claws, we all have but they never get smacked!.

Originally Posted by Psychopomp

She has been getting some rough play lately too and maybe that's helping. I've got some heavy duty shooting gloves that she can't bite through. Unfortunately, the right index finger is only a half finger (so you can still shoot your gun with ease) and Briza's latched onto that one a few times... but oh well.

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You've just found your answer as to why your being bit. I found through the site that you should never do this along with wiggling your hands and feet under blankets because they do whats natural and pounce.

Originally Posted by Psychopomp

Don't take from anything that I've said that this isn't a very well loved and cared for cat.

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I'm sorry, but by telling us what you do to your cat is making it hard for us to understand this

Not everyone may agree with what the OP is doing but you also have been giving advice rudely instead of in a constructive manner.

I agree that hitting a cat is wrong. But I also know how aggravating it is to be be bitten time and time again--as I'm dealing with the same issue as well.

You get discouraged and your mind says if the only way to get them off me means a push or in my case a tap on the nose then you do it.

To the OP--I have been in your place, I have been in a forum about animals where someone did not agree with the choices I was making. But the fact of the matter is, what works for one person or 100 people isn't necessarily going to work for you. Just like humans cats are unique in their personalities. Take the advice, you asked for it, but do with it what you want. Dont take things too seriously--the people on these forums are good people who care about their cats and what whats best, but in the end you are the pet owner.

Good luck

Leslie

Originally Posted by Jack31

Not everyone may agree with what the OP is doing but you also have been giving advice rudely instead of in a constructive manner.

I agree that hitting a cat is wrong. But I also know how aggravating it is to be be bitten time and time again--as I'm dealing with the same issue as well.

You get discouraged and your mind says if the only way to get them off me means a push or in my case a tap on the nose then you do it.

To the OP--I have been in your place, I have been in a forum about animals where someone did not agree with the choices I was making. But the fact of the matter is, what works for one person or 100 people isn't necessarily going to work for you. Just like humans cats are unique in their personalities. Take the advice, you asked for it, but do with it what you want. Dont take things too seriously--the people on these forums are good people who care about their cats and what whats best, but in the end you are the pet owner.

Good luck

Leslie

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I disagree. We all started out nicely trying to tell the OP not to hit the cat and giving alternate ways to deal with this issue. When it became obvious the OP felt totally justified in "smacking his cat around", those of us who honestly do not feel it is ever justified to hit an animal said so.

As Rosiemac pointed out, one of the reasons the cat is probably biting is that he is using his hands to play with the cat (gloves or no gloves) and that is a huge no-no right there. That encourages them to chase your hands and bite and scratch those hands.

I also read how the "cat's face was covered" in the OP's blood - I'm sorry, but I honestly cannot envision this. Now, if this was a cat in the wild that had just feasted on a kill, then I could see the face (or at least the muzzle) covered in blood. With this kind of exaggeration, I cannot help but wonder if the cat's behaviour isn't being exaggerated and the punishment (smacking) over the top as well.

Yes, the OP can take the advice of people who have had animals many years, dealt with ferals and tamed them, handled and resolved many behavioural issues, OR, the OP can take offense when that well-meaning advice is ignored or disputed.

We had a neighbour who used to beat his horses and he felt he had every right to since they were his "property". He beat them because his cart was stuck and they were having difficulty pulling it out. Did they deserve to be beaten? When my mother interfered and told him to stop beating them, he told her if she didn't mind her own business he would beat her too. Yes, I'm angry that someone would take out their anger and frustration on an animal and especially a small animal like a cat that could be hurt so easily by a much larger and stronger human instead of trying to work with the animal to modify it's behaviour.

A push or tap on the nose is also not the same as "smacking" them IMO.