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bengals f1-2, ALC questions.

post #1 of 10
Thread Starter 
I will get an F2 male bengal next week and a F1 female bengal 4 months later.

I have some questions to bengal breeders.

i am located in Thailand, here the ALC is local and i have seen a large number of ALC kittens and grown cats.
Most SLC are not really large and look rather small and skinny next to a big STB bengal.
I have seen a huge variety of F1 and F2 cats, most were alc + bengal or alc + american shorthair, have also seen funny results with other breeds...

Pretty much most of the F1 bred from bengal and ALC had no difference to the ALC visually. We compared them, the spots, bones, colors, eyes, fur toots and claws, hardly no difference at all. Those f1 bred from american short hair were just darker, almost Black white and look rather like the fishing cat, just smaller. ( the bengals and american shorthairs were imported from US breeders, they are all show cat quality, no backyard breeder kittens)

The F2 Bengal i will get did not make any progress in changing, his head is same as his grandfather ALC, same bone structure, long face and those alc eyes. Looks very wild

Now my question is regarding the average size as i had the impression that STB is larger than F1-2 i have seen.
How big do F 1-2 (males) get in general? Are they smaller when bred from female ALC?
second question is why so many F2 i have seen on the internet look almost like STB? Especially the head form. When you compare ALC next to a STB bengal, they hardly look like they have anything in common, ALC has a completely different skull, eyes, tooth size.
Where do most breeders order import the ALC from? As far as i know the ALC comes in some slightly different versions depending of the country, same as most other cats, the fishing cat for example.
How do you verify that the ALC you import is real? I heard that some people in malaysia export F1 sometimes, because u would not tell the difference.

Another question.
I read in some older posts that someone said that all cats bred from ALC + domestic cats are bengals. Now some of the F1 i have seen (alc + white thai cat for example) hardly resamble a bengal at all as they have a completely different coloring such as white head, tail and legs, random red and dark splotches on the back, no dots on the belly and so on...
They fit nowhere in the written Bengal standards or do different rules apply for Feline cats?
post #2 of 10
I didn't know outcrosses were still allowed. I thought it was just bengal to ALC that produced 'official bengals'.
post #3 of 10
Do to where you are in the world the rules and outcrosses may be different .. i would suggest contacting the local cat fancy or TIca
post #4 of 10
I agree with Sharky. I'm not sure why you are dealing with less then the STB in Bengals. Over in the states (in TICA/ACFA) they have to be at least 5 or so generations from the ALC - not sure of the exact amount but in the show ring you can't have anything less then STB.

If you are breeding them, they should be the size/type of those in the show ring. You want to advance them - not start over.
post #5 of 10
Thread Starter 
I am not breeding them, i keep them as my pets only.
STB is i thing from F4 not 5 btw.

I have STB bengal already and will get the F1-2 soon, The reason i want them is because they are very different from STB in look. I am interested in ALC, Marble Cat (not a marbly bengal, i mean the beautiful wild cat) and fishing cats most, Bengals are pretty but apart from their fur and spots they hardly look wild.
Those i will get look like the ALC . STB have a very ordinary head, they are pretty but hardly have a wild look and their spots resemble some wild cat but not the ALC, some Oci cats have more similarity to ALC then most bengals you see on the shows.

I want the ALC but will not buy one because i would not be able to travel with him and i will not give away my pets for any reason as i love them most. F1-3 are of course not meant for the show but still i could show them at some Pat conventions if i like to.

Cats are my private passion, i don't breed/sell kittens (all my 4 cats are male)
I don't cage them, they are family members

Its just that i know many people who have access to wold cats, i have seen many ALC kept as pet, also Servals and even tigers.
Some of the people have petshops, Fishfarms or are Vets, some are breeders however none breeds the bengals or Savannah, they keep them as pen only, out of passion for wild looking cats.
One has a collection of 17 STB, F1-3 cats in his house, another has 30 cats and a Tiger...
Its a small community for for fanatic cat lovers.
post #6 of 10
Thread Starter 
about the weight/size question, could anyone give me numbers?
post #7 of 10
Not likely going to ..

ALC should be about 11 if memory serves...

the early gernerations tend to be small like an ALC... see here in the states very few keep an early generation

I do know a few members in your area of the world hopefully theyll have answers
post #8 of 10
This is Bakula. She is a F1, produced from an ALC to SBT Bengal breeding.

This is London, a SBT Bengal who is on record pace to supreme in TICA shows.

Although their heads are disimilar and Bakula naturally looks more like an ALC since she is roughly 56.25% wild blood, I do prefer the overall look of London.

The bengal breed standard is not written to ensure that bengals look exactly like ALC's. The idea is to produce a cat that resembles it but is not a carbon copy.
IMO the bengals being produced today make the ALC's seem plain in comparison. Selective careful breeding has produced bengal cats with patterns that now rival the clouded leopard and ocelots.
post #9 of 10
I think London is perfection, no doubt about it. I like Bakula, but she doesn't compare to London.
post #10 of 10
Thread Starter 
Hi Ken, thanks for the pics.

The reason i get the F 1 and F 2 however is not because i want another Bengal but because i originally like ALC most. For me the fascinating part is the wild physical appearance not the fur.
Of course i also cherish the beautiful fur that for i have an STB too.

i am aware that the breeding standard was never a goal to copy the ALC look, but that was non of my questions, i barely stated the reason of my interest in the F1-2

BTW, there are also stunning F1 and F2 spotted or marble.

they may not have rosettes but some have brilliant colors, a snow white belly, gold/yellow fur with pitch black dots

i wish the Felis Marmorata (marble cat) were not so rare (completely protected) as we also have them here in Thailand

Would love a F1 of those :P
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