Dizzy Drooling Breathing Hard, already been to the vet...

Hi all. I'm new to the site, having signed up recently after finding a great post on building a cat tree...but my reason for coming today is much more serious.

My 7-8 month old kitten Ned (a farm stray found 4 months ago) recently got sick around 2 weeks ago in the middle of the night. He started off by drooling excessively (he has been known to drool a little due to teething), breathing ,a bit more forcefully (still through his nose), and here's the scariest part....his balance was really affected, weaving and tipping over. He also seemed really disoriented. This all transpired in the middle of the night, of course, and I called the emergency clinic. At the time I didn't know about the balance, so she advised based on the drooling and slightly hard breathing that I just watch him until morning. That was a long panicky night for me, as I'm new to cats and have had this impending fear that something would go wrong with such a fragile tiny looking creature, he is small, weighing in at about 5.5 lbs. Our dog is a big goober that rarely gives me reason to panic, so I was beside myself. Plus, Ned is unusual in that his distress caused him to come closer to me and pitifully beg that I make him better. At his worst, he actually bit my nose as I wasn't doing my part apparently. When your baby wants you to make him better, emotions run high.

In the morning, his drooling finally stopped, and he seemed a bit more alert, and got out of bed to follow me into the hall. That's when I saw the balance problem. Even though he started to purr a bit, and seemed on the mend, I scooped him up and took him to our regular vet. They did not like his balance problem either, or that the food I had feed him 12 hours ago was still in his stomach, unmoved apparently. After 800 dollars!! worth of tests and IV fluids and xrays, etc., they said he was okay and must have gotten into something. Let me take a moment to show my displeasure with this bargain. They've gouged me before on routine things, I have no doubt they may have taken the opportunity to spend as much as possible during my extreme distress and desire to find what was wrong. But Ned was back to normal, and full of energy and quite agile again. I will say that up until today, I was convinced (with no competing theory from the vet) that he was reacting to a bad batch of food. I had fed him a single can of Wellness Turkey that night, just hours before his symptoms. I'm not bashing Wellness, he eats Core kibble and Science Diet Kitten, but certainly any brand could have a bad batch from improper canning or some weird issue. He hadn't had canned food before that. The vet seemed unconvinced by this coincidence, and kept saying he must have gotten into something.

As I didn't see him get into anything that night, nor could I find evidence of him tampering with anything scary, I just didn't believe it. Until last night.

Again, he has the same symptoms, and he hadn't had any canned food yesterday. Only Science kibble. Again, drooling, balance, disorientation. And I did not see anything that looked dangerous that he's gotten into. We were in bed, and I awoke to find my sweatshirt very wet from wicking his drool. As the vet didn't find any viruses, infections, etc. I'm watching him closely. He's getting better again, drooling is gone, but balance is still terrible, and he is hissy if I bother him. Like he did to the vet (which he hates), but he is normally a VERY Laid back affectionate cat. I guess he figured out that mommy can't fix him this time, so back off. He have come by my feet, somewhat normally but doesn't like my hand coming close. He has drank a little water, so dehydration may not be a worry now.

I know this post if very long, but I'm just at a loss now. I do have a bunch of dried branches of winterberry (i think) that i bought at the farmers market. Even though it is in an out of the way place and I've not seen any berries fall off, or him near it (seems like he wouldn't be interested in a red berry anyway, he only likes meat), I'm eyeing it suspiciously. I'm also starting to wonder if any insectide residue from killing the random spider or straying hornetmay be lingering. I haven't used anything in months, but the residue could be in the carpet or on a baseboard?

The vet did throw out the idea that maybe Ned has a underdeveloped cerebelum and his balance could go out of whack when he is suffering something that would normally give off milder symptoms. He is normally a bit clumsy, knocking things off tables, falling off ledges sometimes. I also told the vet that I have seen him on rare occasions with a bit of a head wobble when he's zoned out. Just a little side to side wobble that I thought was normal for kittens, but the vet said no way. So maybe he is underdeveloped, but what the hell is setting him off this way????

Please, if anyone has ideas or similar experiences, please brainstorm with me..the vet has no answers, and I can't take another 800 dollar bill to come up with nothing.

The drooling sounds most problematic. Has he gotten into any cleaning products or other chemicals? Any house plants? Christmas decorations? Food isn't the only thing that kittens will eat, and certainly not the prime suspect when drooling occurs.

My Maggie had a bout of idiopatic vestibular disease when she was about 3 months old. She walked in circles, stumbling and tripping, acting very disoriented. She also had a very severe nystagmus (her eyes went back and forth, side to side, rapidly.) I took her to the vet immediately, and the vet suggested it was probably viral in nature, but gave me antibiotics, in case it was bacterial or toxoplasmosis induced. It did, indeed, clear up within 10 days or so, and she hasn't had any residual effects.

It is possible that Ned has cerebellar hypoplasia, but it would have shown up from day one. His balance wouldn't start out okay, and then deteriorate. It would have been noticable immediately. CH doesn't explain the drooling, either.

My guess is that he's gotten into, and eaten, something that has affected his balance and caused the drooling. I certainly hope for $800, the vet did bloodwork that included a renal panel and a liver function test. If he had gotten into something and eaten it, one or both of those tests would probably have been elevated. If your vet hasn't done these tests: BUN (blood urea nitrogen) and creatinine - for renal function, and ALT (SGPT), AST (SGOT), ALKP (alkaline phosphatase) for liver function....you should take Ned to a different vet and request those tests to make sure he isn't going into renal or liver failure (those would be my immediate worries.)

I'm sorry that I couldn't be more help. I will certainly keep you and your sweet little Ned in my prayers.

I'm thinking neurological problems here. Have any tests been done to prove it is not neurological?

Thanks for the responses from all.

KittKatt, I don't have any poinsettias, but i do have the winterberry (I believe) bouquet, no leaves just red berries on branches (it's in the holly family), but it is out of reach. The symptoms listed that i could find include vomiting, anorexia, excess salivation, and diarrhea. He did have the excess salivation. I just don't know, he cant get to the plant and no berries look like they've dropped. I am removing it just in case.

I hope it wasn't a stroke, but if so, I hope the blood works would have revealed something!

Antifreeze isn't a problem, there isn't any in the house itself, and he isn't allowed in the garage and hasn't been outside since it has snowed here in MI. I keep cleaning supplies, etc. in cabinets and tied the doors down so that he can't get in. This was after he opened the kitchen sink door to get into the garbage a month or so ago.

White cat lover, They did not test to rule out neurological disorders, just hypothesized about the cerebellar hypoplasia that pookie-poo talked about. I guess it doesn't fit, as he has decent balance, just seems a little clumsier than I thought cats were supposed to be. But again, I'm new to cats, other than one I had when i was young, and I think I had the misconception that cats were all graceful and lithe, but all these funny cat videos are telling me not to assume such skills. If it is neurological in nature, I still wonder what is triggering it.

Pookie-poo, I'm not very knowledgeable about the tests done, but the invoice lists toxoplasmosis, Feline Serology I, Complete Blood Count and Chemistry Profile. They never talked about these tests being related to liver or renal functions. Thank you for bringing those up. I am going to ask them to send me more detailed descriptions of what was tested and the results, as I am taking him to another vet. It is high time anyway, they've disappointed me before and do not seem to think cost is something work concerning themselves with--the clinic is in a a high-end neighborhood and when I balked at spending $80/month for prescription allergy pills for my dog before exhausting cheaper OTC alternatives, it was as if I was the oddball.

The vet said his blood work showed nothing significant other than a slightly higher phosphorous level--but she wasn't concerned. I know they checked for the Corona virus, it was negative so no worries of the mutated FIP. This is all so new to me. Why does it sound like cats are in dire peril of so many more ominous viruses than dogs?

I am relieved to report in the meantime that Ned has recovered, still a bit tired, but back to "normal" right now. Seems like the episode took around 30 hours to resolve, and that seems to be the same amount as last time while he was at the vets. The vets were perplexed as to why his digestive system seemed to halt during all this, but things did end up moving through to the colon while he was observed overnight. This time, he seemed to want to go in the litter box, but wasn't able to. But he wasn't full of food this time.

I think I'm going to spend some time scouting out a new vet, before then next episode. Since I haven't uncovered the trigger, I'm afraid it's going to happen again. Thanks for the suggestions, I'm going to use those as a starting point in my conversations to see if the new vet has a better idea of what is going on.

What about flea products? Have you used any on your cat, dog or in the house?
If you use Advantix, Hartz, Biospot, or other over the counter flea product on your dog and your cat come in contact with it, it can cause similair effects.


I have a cat with with CH. Trust me, if your kitty had it, you would know. There are differant degrees of it. My little Weeble isnt too bad. She will fall off window sills, go sliding wildly into walls when she runs, and walks like theres a giant stick up her rear. Also, her little head will shakes when she gets excited. Compared to others I have seen, hers is mild. Some can bearly walk. If it was CH, your kitty wouldn't have suddenly gotten worse. Its not a progressive disease. They simply have it or they dont. They certainly make for the most entertaining cats around...

I hope you find out whats causing your kittys problems!

I wonder if he might have been chewing on the winterberry without your knowledge. Very few places are truly "out of reach" for a determined cat, unless they are locked away.
In any case, it definitely sounds like it's time to look for a new vet. I will keep you and Ned in my prayers.

Hi PennyRi & Ned
I'm from Michigan too! I'm in Midland, where are you located? If you live anywhere near here, I can recommend an absolutely awesome vet practice!
My vet has been treating my Cleo for over 7 1/2 years for renal failure. She is very knowledgable, and is very open to trying new things. I'm certain that Cleo has done so well because of the excellent veterinary care she's received from Dr. Sue.

Cats with renal failure often have high serum phosphorus levels. Kittens also have naturally high serum phosphorus levels due to growth and bone development, so unless it's exeptionally high, it's probably nothing to worry about.

If you don't want to make your location public, you can always PM me if you would like me to know, and to get the name of my vet's practice, if you'd like it.

You and Ned continue to be in my prayers.

Shorty, Ned gets Revolution, but hasn't had a dose since last month. He's actually due for his next dose but we're not going to give it since he's had this problem and we don't want to stress his system further. He's indoors now, and everything is frozen outside, so I think we'll skip the month.

I think the vet was bringing up CH, not as a deteriorating problem, but as a possible reason why his unbalance would be exacerbated by whatever he ate/got into, etc. Other than falling off things, he doesn't have any other of the symptoms you mention, other than the wobble head. So they must have just been grasping at straws at the time. They sure didn't seem to have any other ideas that fit all the presenting symptoms.

When he was neutered he had a bad reaction to the pain pills they gave him. Actually, he had a very similar reaction....hmmm. I did mention the similarity when I brought him in. Drooling, and very very dizzy, like he was drunk. But I certainly don't have any pain pills lying around! Seems like drooling and drunken balance are his go-to symptoms.

I am starting to think maybe momto3cats is right about the winterberry. I'd think it would have to have been dropped berries though, as the vase sits precariously on the narrow tv top, with no room for him to get up there without knocking it and everything else off. Yeah, I shouldn't have had it there anyway, with his clumsiness. I feel terrible to think i left the culprit out for him to get sick again. It actually took alot of time on the next for me to identify it as winterberry (I hadn't asked the seller what it was), and wasn't thinking to ask if it was toxic to cats. It was an impulse buy along with a bunch of dogwood stems (research says only the fruit is toxic, not the branches). If it is the berries, I'll be happy not to keep looking around the house for some invisible danger.

I'm actually in Grand Rapids, MI. But you got me thinking Pookie-poo...we're moving to Raleigh, NC within the month for at least six months to a year (fiance is a contractor), and if anyone has a good vet in the area, I would most love to know in preparation of any problems while we're down there. I'll probably post again elsewhere about NC vets.
But, it's nice to meet a fellow MI resident!! Even if we're a little ways a way.


Thanks to everyone for their prayers and good thoughts! I feel much better having a group of cat owners with your combined experiences to voice my worries to, being new to this is so much more overwhelming than I expected. Ned pretty much butted his way into our lives, so I hadn't prepared myself for life with a cat.

By the way, I always thought cats were less work than dogs. Geez, was I wrooooooong! He's way more work than any dog we've ever had! But the gooey heart melting feeling I get from looking at him is well worth it. He's a good transition from dogs too as he's really really affectionate, apparently not very finicky about much, and kind of dog-like in his personality. He wrestles with the dog, it just lights up my day to see my two different babies playing together.

If all goes well with Ned, I can hopefully turn my attention back to fun things like building cat trees, and otherwise happily spoiling him again. That's a much more enjoyable reason to be browsing this site, that's for sure!

I'm sorry to hear about your kitty. My thoughts are it could be the winterberry, OR he has some type of inner ear infection that is messing up his equalibrium. When they get dizzy like that it can make them nauseous, which in turn would make him drool. Just a theory, I'm sure the vet checked his ears. I really hope you can get it figured out so your little one can feel better.

winterberry isn't on the list of poisonous plants to cats...
worse case scenario with this plant would be nausea, vomiting and diarrhea.
no mention of drooling or dizziness...

this sounds more chemical... strychnine or arsenic are listed as causes for these symptoms with possible seizure, the stumbling could be a mild form of this.

poor baby... I hope you solve the mystery soon, maybe he's having a bad reaction to something you clean the floors with? just a wild guess...

I'm with those who think it sounds chemical in nature. Are you currently building the cat tree? What materials are you using? Glue? Carpet? Maybe something there...

I'm not building a tree right now, and I don't have any glue or new carpet around. I do have a cardboard tube form, but I think I bought it after the first episode (can't quite remember), and it seems not to be treated with anything. It was listed by others for building cat trees. He actually hasn't seem all that interested in it. I don't think anything new has come into the house recently, but I'm going to think on this more.... I won't ever stop rethinking about everything in the house unless alot of time goes by without a recurrence.

Embarrassed to say, my kitchen floor isn't very clean right now. But I mostly use vinegar and peroxide to clean the counters, and most surfaces. Sometimes I use a bleach soap solution for the sink, and bathroom but it gets rinsed off right after and bleach poisoning would cause burns and much pain, I would think, as it reacts with proteins in our skin. I don't use any anti-bacterial lysol type stuff, as even before Ned came along, I dislike the idea of long lasting residue cleaning products when vinegar, peroxide, and occasionally bleach (any minute amounts left after rinsing would evaporate eventually) suffice just fine. Carpets haven't been cleaned in a while, but I only use water and vinegar, no chemicals--I have used ammonia for spots, but that was at least 8 months ago.

I really wonder now if his odd symptoms are a result of a neurological disorder being triggered by something that would be relatively benign to other cats...doesn't it seem odd that he had the exact same problems as when he was on the post-neuter pain meds? The vet never really explained why he reacted that way, just that it sometimes happens. Seems like their answer for everything.

so, maybe Neurological problems plus unknown bad thing (or winterberries)=drooling and dizzy cat? Can't wait to see what kind of costs a neurological specialist charges if we need to go that route... But at least Michigan State isn't far from here, and they have a great vet clinic there, if we need to enlist the help of some big guys. Sad to say we were introduced to them when our late rat terrier developed a spinal tumor.

I did a little research and came up with a website that may be of some help... here it is! Let me know!

http://www.cathealth.com/vestibular.htm

Hope everything turns out ok!! I know how stressful this must be and especially so with you moving!

Btw I hope you like the Raleigh area! I am here as well.

If you have to go to MSU, I can also attest first hand to how wonderful they are. Cleo went when she was a year old for an abdominal ultrasound, and then a year later for an echocardiogram. They were absolutely wonderful with her and with me. They actually let me hold her during the echo and watch the entire procedure. They explained everything to me while it was happening. It was kind of neat, cuz they had the exact ultrasound machine that we use in the operating room for intraoperative ultrasounds!

Good luck to you and Ned!

Originally Posted by glitch

I did a little research and came up with a website that may be of some help... here it is! Let me know!

http://www.cathealth.com/vestibular.htm

Click to expand...

wow. cat's have some interesting issues. random dizzy spells. i would never have imagined such a problem. i'll keep that one in mind. his drooling might rule it out, but it could be his own special icky way of dealing with feeling dizzy.

yes, MSU and actually Purdue in Indiana too were both wonderfully knowledgable and very empathic towards us. Its nice to see these veterinary schools really have their acts together!

kittee-i am so very looking forward to Raleigh! Warmer weather mean the dog and I will be making a new years resolution to take more walks! Ned may get in on the action too if he wants to don a leash...

Thanks again everyone, I will update if the mystery is solved.

Of course a vet would know best, but those do sound like poisoning symptoms. Do you have any medication he could be getting into? Could be something hidden like pills that fell on the floor and rolled out of sight. Or maybe a cleaning product or spray used around the house, or on his food dishes.

There are reasons why one cat would be exposed while the others are fine... does this cat lick floors, get into garbage, chew things? Maybe he's a better hunter and has been eating bugs or mice that were exposed to poison?

Dizziness and heavy breathing can be cardiac symptoms. Did the vet think it was warranted to run heart tests?

Well,

Seems that the problem is recurrent and the regular vet thinks it's internally based (versus external influences). Ned has just had his third episode or seizure or attack in three weeks. This one was much more mild, but I'm attempting to talk to the referral vet, animal neurology in Commerce, MI about causes, tests, options. What to do if it's not neurologically based, I can't even begin to imagine the hunting expedition.

Interesting thing this time, as he let me touch him a little more this time during the event, was that he seemed feverish. His nose was darker pink and his ears and feet were very hot.

Also, don't know why I said it lasted 30 hours, I must have been sleep deprived after the second attack and thought 2am to 2pm equaled 24 hours. The other two lasted approximately 12-15 hours, while this one only lasted about 7 hours before his drooling, breathing and balance started to improve.

Thanks for all the problem solving thoughts and well wishes. I hope they can help us without too much expense, as my fiance has started talking about limits on cost. It is such a crappy thing to have to consider when the health of a loved one, human or not, is at stake.

I've had this experience with my cat Manny. It started when he was maybe 2 years old, or so. I found him one day, non responsive, drooling excessively, and unable to walk normally, very wobbly and could fall over if attempting to walk. This happened a couple of times until I was able to get him to the vet. Turns out he has heart disease and has now been on heart medication for the past 9 years. He's had SEVERAL episodes during his life even still, and each time breaks my heart because I fear the worst.

Have your vet check for heart disease.