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why dont we just give up naming things - Page 2

post #31 of 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by coaster View Post
I think this whole thread is a good example of why English should be the language of the U.S. Spanish is the language in Mexico and GM bombed with the Nova because they didn't respect that. Likewise, English should be respected as the language of the U.S. I'm concerned about the trend of going to multi-lingualism because of immigrants who don't speak the language, and too often nowadays CHOOSE not to learn it and to speak it. We really don't need everything in two languages (or three as the case is around here.) If there's some English words that are offensive in another language, well, tough. Just like the Nova in Mexico.
I agree with you. When people move to this country (legally mind you) they should have to assimilate to our culture, not the other way around. I'm all for lending assistance to immigrants in helping them to learn English and our customs but that's about it.
post #32 of 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by coaster View Post
I think this whole thread is a good example of why English should be the language of the U.S. Spanish is the language in Mexico and GM bombed with the Nova because they didn't respect that. Likewise, English should be respected as the language of the U.S. I'm concerned about the trend of going to multi-lingualism because of immigrants who don't speak the language, and too often nowadays CHOOSE not to learn it and to speak it. We really don't need everything in two languages (or three as the case is around here.) If there's some English words that are offensive in another language, well, tough. Just like the Nova in Mexico.
I am shocked and appalled by this comment, and the following post response! First of all, the complaint was the use of an English word/s that has a derogatory, demeaning relation to Hispanics............Spanish is the language of over 20 countries, not just Mexico............. it originated from the northern area of Spain, it is the second most spoken language of the US, third on the internet, and third world wide.
post #33 of 55
I agree that if we had a national language it should be English. Spanish is the second largest spoken language in this country but English is what the vast majority of people speak. I have nothing againt Spanish speaking people or against people who speak any other language and I certainly don't call people names that would be demeaning or derrogatory. If Congress would ever happen to declare english the official language of the US, why would that be so bad?

My immigration comment really had nothing to do with this thread. It was something that was brought up on an overnight radio talk/call-in show that I happen to agree with. If I were to move to another country wouldn't I have to learn the language and have an understanding of the culture, laws and customs to live and work there (wherever "there" would be)? Should it be different here? Like I said, this is a separate issue than what this thread is about.
post #34 of 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by Essayons89 View Post
Like I said, this is a separate issue than what this thread is about.
The past few posts have gone off topic.
post #35 of 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by Essayons89 View Post
I agree that if we had a national language it should be English. Spanish is the second largest spoken language in this country but English is what the vast majority of people speak. I have nothing againt Spanish speaking people or against people who speak any other language and I certainly don't call people names that would be demeaning or derrogatory. If Congress would ever happen to declare english the official language of the US, why would that be so bad?

My immigration comment really had nothing to do with this thread. It was something that was brought up on an overnight radio talk/call-in show that I happen to agree with. If I were to move to another country wouldn't I have to learn the language and have an understanding of the culture, laws and customs to live and work there (wherever "there" would be)? Should it be different here? Like I said, this is a separate issue than what this thread is about.
My point was that it had nothing to do with the Spanish language, it was apparently insulting as a term to Hispanic people. The United States is a country of diverse cultures and languages, "the Melting pot"..........supposedly....
post #36 of 55
OMG...oh, I'm sorry, I probably shouldn't have said that since mentioning GOD might offend someone.

The macot was a pig. What are the choices? It is a cute name for a cute mascot. Should he be called "Bacon"? Well, that would get all the vegetarians upset. Oh, how about Porky. That would upset anyone overweight (which I am, and I wouldn't get upset, but probably some would).

So, Ferrus...what does that mean. Iron? What does that have to do with a pig mascot??
post #37 of 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by cheylink View Post
The United States is a country of diverse cultures and languages, "the Melting pot"..........supposedly....
I think you misunderstand the meaning of the term "the melting pot" which is NOT diversity of languages and cultures, but the assimilation of languages and cultures into a homogeneous society with one language and one culture. Yes, everyone has their backgrounds which originate in different societies, cultures, ethnicities, languages, etc. But the melting pot means that they don't KEEP those distinctives in the American society, they become AMERICANS with a uniquely AMERICAN society of AMERICAN culture, and of which English is the language used.

From Wikipedia:
Quote:
It was a metaphor for the idealized process of immigration and colonization by which different nationalities, cultures and "races" were to blend into a new, virtuous community
post #38 of 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by coaster View Post
I think you misunderstand the meaning of the term "the melting pot" which is NOT diversity of languages and cultures, but the assimilation of languages and cultures into a homogeneous society with one language and one culture. Yes, everyone has their backgrounds which originate in different societies, cultures, ethnicities, languages, etc. But the melting pot means that they don't KEEP those distinctives in the American society, they become AMERICANS with a uniquely AMERICAN society of AMERICAN culture, and of which English is the language used.

From Wikipedia:
We're still off topic here. The term used was an English one, i.e., "pork chops", not a Spanish translation thereof. That expression is used in Pennsylvania, i.e., the home state of this sports team, to refer to Puerto Ricans. I'm a native of Pennsylvania, and IME, most, but not all, Latinos in PA are Puerto Ricans.

My father was raised in Puerto Rico, and my ex was a Puerto Rican (raised in NY, but moved to Philly as an adult). I can understand that people outside of PA might not understand the objections to the term, but the U.S. is a very large country, and there are very large differences in language usage.I can understand why people of Puerto Rican descent object to the team nickname, and also why people from other states or countries don't understand why there's an "issue" at all, but please don't turn this into a debate about the "proper language" of the U.S. as a whole, because this really is a regional issue.
post #39 of 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by jcat View Post
We're still off topic here. The term used was an English one, i.e., "pork chops", not a Spanish translation thereof. That expression is used in Pennsylvania, i.e., the home state of this sports team, to refer to Puerto Ricans. I'm a native of Pennsylvania, and IME, most, but not all, Latinos in PA are Puerto Ricans.

My father was raised in Puerto Rico, and my ex was a Puerto Rican (raised in NY, but moved to Philly as an adult). I can understand that people outside of PA might not understand the objections to the term, but the U.S. is a very large country, and there are very large differences in language usage.I can understand why people of Puerto Rican descent object to the team nickname, and also why people from other states or countries don't understand why there's an "issue" at all, but please don't turn this into a debate about the "proper language" of the U.S. as a whole, because this really is a regional issue.
This really was my point, some want to ramble about lingual differences.
post #40 of 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by jcat View Post
....but please don't turn this into a debate about the "proper language" of the U.S. as a whole, because this really is a regional issue.
OK, sorry 'bout that. But regionally speaking, here in the Midwest, pork chops are something you eat. Yum.
post #41 of 55
Thread Starter 
SOOOo, what have they changed the names of porkchops to in PA?
post #42 of 55
I didn't know pork chop was a derogatory work for Puerto Ricans. Now that I do I understand why they wouldn't want their team mascot named that.

No where does it say that calling actual pork chops by their name was insulting. It's calling Puerto Ricans by the name that is insulting. I'm sure they know when someone uses the term in an insulting way.

White trash is an insulting term for white people that nearly everyone knows. I know when someone calls me that I'm being insulted. I sure wouldn't cheer on a team with a mascot that was called White Trash.

This is a case of P.C. being used correctly. I'm glad the team owners responded the way they did.
post #43 of 55
Thread Starter 
so the mascot was a Puerto Rican? hmm no its a mascot.
so, maybe muslims should protest the name of the team,ironpigs,
othe wise it is a case of PC gone crazy yet again.
post #44 of 55
The name Chevy Nova didn't bomb in Mexico because it was offensive. It's just that "no va" in Spanish means "doesn't go" in English. Not a good name for a car.
post #45 of 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldenKitty45 View Post
You know - things are REALLY getting out of hand with all the "politically polite" crap. Wonder when this will hit the grocery stores? So what will Pork Chops be called now???? Geez.
I agree - there's far to much emphasis on political correctness. I recall going through some really crazy mess in the UK where we couldn't call anything black or white. Blackboards were chalkboards... but even that was unacceptable because chalk is white, and therefore had a different context. Uhm... hello? And why not snowmen? Snow is white and men... well that was sexual discrimination. So they were supposed to be "frozen precipitation people". Personally I quite like that new term... makes me laugh to know just how ridiculous this has all become. Why is it that we can't call the kettle black?

So for all of you out there utterly tired of "PC"ness... old black women and young white men alike.... why can't we just accept that our cultures are different and make allowances for the fact that we aren't psychic and can't possibly know what is offensive in whatever language?? Why can we not just learn to accept one another for who we are and not worry about what we call each other?

I can almost guarantee that half the words in this post alone will be offensive to someone in at least one language (even English, I suppose).

IMO: the world needs more cat lovers. We all seem to be pretty decent, accepting people. Kitties will either save, or take over the world one day. Maybe even both.

Sorry, I lost the thread a long time ago.

DOWN WITH POLITICAL CORRECTNESS!
post #46 of 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by katie=^..^= View Post
The name Chevy Nova didn't bomb in Mexico because it was offensive. It's just that "no va" in Spanish means "doesn't go" in English. Not a good name for a car.
hehehehehehehe I need to remember that one!
post #47 of 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by LilleKat View Post

IMO: the world needs more cat lovers. We all seem to be pretty decent, accepting people. Kitties will either save, or take over the world one day. Maybe even both.

!
I pretty much disagreed with everything you said except this.

As my beautiful and intelligent daughter says:

EVERY CAT IS A ZEN MASTER
post #48 of 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by katie=^..^= View Post
The name Chevy Nova didn't bomb in Mexico because it was offensive. It's just that "no va" in Spanish means "doesn't go" in English. Not a good name for a car.
That was my point... if you don't bother understanding your audience, many times you end up with exactly the opposite of the effect you intended. In that case, it was like naming a car "Engine Failure", in this case, like naming a baseball team the n-word (which, if they had done, would ANY of you be defending it? Is it because Hispanics are offended that you think they're being ridiculous, or is it just because the particular offensive term isn't one you've heard yet?) I didn't explain it because people were missing the point so entirely that it kinda fell by the wayside.
post #49 of 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by LilleKat View Post
I agree - there's far to much emphasis on political correctness. I recall going through some really crazy mess in the UK where we couldn't call anything black or white. Blackboards were chalkboards... but even that was unacceptable because chalk is white, and therefore had a different context. Uhm... hello? And why not snowmen? Snow is white and men... well that was sexual discrimination. So they were supposed to be "frozen precipitation people". Personally I quite like that new term... makes me laugh to know just how ridiculous this has all become. Why is it that we can't call the kettle black?
No. A lot of chalkboards are green, so it didn't make sense to call them blackboards. Have you ever heard someone seriously say anything even similar to 'frozen precipitation people'? Political correctness has its purpose-- there is no sense in insisting on legitimately insulting people just because you're too lazy to say something differently (generic you) but in some cases it is taken too far.

This is not an example of such a case.
post #50 of 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zissou'sMom View Post
That was my point... if you don't bother understanding your audience, many times you end up with exactly the opposite of the effect you intended. In that case, it was like naming a car "Engine Failure", in this case, like naming a baseball team the n-word (which, if they had done, would ANY of you be defending it? Is it because Hispanics are offended that you think they're being ridiculous, or is it just because the particular offensive term isn't one you've heard yet?) I didn't explain it because people were missing the point so entirely that it kinda fell by the wayside.
I'm glad you got it said. That's exactly what I've been saying, too. The word is insulting in the area that the team plays.

That's enough not to use it.

Sometimes politically correct is correct. Sometimes it goes too far. Each case has to be decided on it's own basis. This decision is right.
post #51 of 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zissou'sMom View Post
No. A lot of chalkboards are green, so it didn't make sense to call them blackboards. Have you ever heard someone seriously say anything even similar to 'frozen precipitation people'? Political correctness has its purpose-- there is no sense in insisting on legitimately insulting people just because you're too lazy to say something differently (generic you) but in some cases it is taken too far.

This is not an example of such a case.

Maybe they are green in the US, they are black in the UK. And yes, I have heard people use the term "frozen precipitation people". This is why I used it as an example of it having gone too far - because it IS ridiculous.
post #52 of 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by LilleKat View Post
I agree - there's far to much emphasis on political correctness. ......So for all of you out there utterly tired of "PC"ness... old black women and young white men alike.... why can't we just accept that our cultures are different and make allowances for the fact that we aren't psychic and can't possibly know what is offensive in whatever language?? .....

DOWN WITH POLITICAL CORRECTNESS!
(my emphasis added)

I'm so glad to see this. Knowing that there's finally a backlash against PC brewing. It's gone to the poing of ridiculous in many cases. We can't possibly go through life offending nobody. We might as well stay home in bed and out of society. We should be tolerant, understanding that when something someone else says or does is offensive to us, we have to consider the intent .... did they really mean to offend, or is it just something different about their native language or culture? Let's be reasonable and just be ourselves. Sometimes there will be misunderstandings. Give people the benefit of the doubt. If there was no intent to offend then give them a pass.
post #53 of 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by coaster View Post
(my emphasis added)

I'm so glad to see this. Knowing that there's finally a backlash against PC brewing. It's gone to the poing of ridiculous in many cases. We can't possibly go through life offending nobody. We might as well stay home in bed and out of society. We should be tolerant, understanding that when something someone else says or does is offensive to us, we have to consider the intent .... did they really mean to offend, or is it just something different about their native language or culture? Let's be reasonable and just be ourselves. Sometimes there will be misunderstandings. Give people the benefit of the doubt. If there was no intent to offend then give them a pass.
That said (and I agree in general), where do you stand on this particular instance?
post #54 of 55
Oh, dear.....after five pages I'm not sure I even remember the original instance. Sigh....... <opens another browser window to go back and look> ...... OK, here goes.....

The students held a contest to name their new mascot. The mascot is a pig. The winning name was "Pork Chop." Several Hispanics complained about the new name because they felt it was offensive toward Hispanics. The school renamed the mascot Ferrous.

WTH? A team mascot is renamed because a few people complained that it offended them because the same words, "pork chop", had been used as a derogatory racial epithet when they worked at Bethlehem Steel?

For crying out loud. There was NO INTENT to offend; the words are not offensive in the language of the country; only a few people complained versus a whole student body who voted for it.

This is PC run amok. These people who were so offended have very thin skins. They should know there was no intent to offend anyone because the name was given to a PIG mascot. It had nothing whatsover to do with Hispanics. They should have just let it slide. They were making a big hoo-doo over nothing, probably just trying to get attention. Let's have a little reason and tolerance. Sure, those words might have been used to call them names at some time, but a reasonable person takes the context into consideration. They're in America now, and the words pork and chop and normal English words used to denote a cut of meat from a pig, and that's the way they should be understood, unless the context of the situation implies that they're being used as racial slurs. THEN they can complain. The can complain about the racial slur, but they have no cause to complain about the words.

If all the words that have been used to offend me have to be removed from public use of the language we'd be left with sign language. And what are these guys going to do when they go to the butcher and want to buy some pork chops, anyway? Ask the butcher to give them two pounds of their very best, errrr.......FERROUS???
post #55 of 55
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by theimp98 View Post
so the mascot was a Puerto Rican? hmm no its a mascot.so, maybe muslims should protest the name of the team,ironpigs,
other wises it is a case of PC gone crazy yet again.


oh wait, i was about to agree with myself
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