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What is this breed? take a look please.

post #1 of 17
Thread Starter 
I am sorry if i post wrong here but after reading the forum descriptions i thought this might be the best place to ask.

I am currently in Thailand. Here is one widely spread cat breed, no one can tell me what they are actually, People just say street cat. Well a street cat is not a race and this cats clearly all look exactly the same and are no random mix products.

In thailand forests we have a huge variety of wild cats, some people even keep felis bengalis leaopard cat and the Fishing cat as a pet, and in many cases the leopard cat and the fishing cat mate with domestic cats.

here are some pics of the 2 cats i have.
closest by look they resamble the grey/brownsh type of Oci cat and the Fishing cat.

Have anyone an idea what those actually are?










another question:

in a couple of months i will get a female F1 bengal.

here is a pic of her sister.

Her daddy is a original Felis Bengalensis, asian leopard cat and her mama a F? Malaysian Bengal, so she is somewhat wild in look, especially the face.
Very beautiful spots and colors, looks way more impressive in real.

8 weeks old


half year


my question is to how many % that cat is actually wild as originally a bengal is a hybrid of a leopard cat and a domestic cat such as american shorthair and so on... this one would be a mix of a hybrid with an asian leopard, the kids almost hardly look no different from the daddy.

i don't worry about them being wild and bite me lol, they will not. i am just curious.
there are some people who keep the leopard cat and the fishing cat as a pure house pet here, some of them even got the animals when they were older than 4 months. Once they are treated nicely they are not much different to a house cat, they use toilet and learn dog tricks.
post #2 of 17
I don't know enough about cat breeds to help you, but your cats are absolutely stunning!
post #3 of 17
I will likely get corrected but a F1 = 52% wild , F2 = 26%( if both parents are f! might be higher) F3 12.5% F4 = foundation or about 6% wild blood
post #4 of 17
Thread Starter 
yes it this case it would be an Fsomething with a 100% wild cat... will mess up my couch i guess haha.
post #5 of 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by sharky View Post
I will likely get corrected but a F1 = 52% wild , F2 = 26%( if both parents are f! might be higher) F3 12.5% F4 = foundation or about 6% wild blood
You're very close Jen!

In theory:

Asian Leopard Cat bred to a F4 bengal (6.25%) will produce a 56.25% wild blood F1 bengal cat.

The wild blood of the F4 bengal (in theory) is not diluted when bred back to a 100% wild blood ALC, as there shouldn't be any non ALC genes introduced from the ALC sire.

The problem with this theory is there are other variables involved in the breeding pool with F4 and above bengal cats. Some SBT (F4 and above) cats will have varying amounts of wild blood due to other breeds being in the mix, such as American shorthairs, and E Maus, etc.

FYI: Usually all F1 through F3 bengal males are sterile. Occasionally a fertile F3 male comes along which throws a whole new variable into the mix.

Anyway, the percentages are a rough guideline, that is fairly accurate.
post #6 of 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kai Bengals View Post
You're very close Jen!

In theory:

Asian Leopard Cat bred to a F4 bengal (6.25%) will produce a 56.25% wild blood F1 bengal cat.

The wild blood of the F4 bengal (in theory) is not diluted when bred back to a 100% wild blood ALC, as there shouldn't be any non ALC genes introduced from the ALC sire.

The problem with this theory is there are other variables involved in the breeding pool with F4 and above bengal cats. Some SBT (F4 and above) cats will have varying amounts of wild blood due to other breeds being in the mix, such as American shorthairs, and E Maus, etc.

FYI: Usually all F1 through F3 bengal males are sterile. Occasionally a fertile F3 male comes along which throws a whole new variable into the mix.

Anyway, the percentages are a rough guideline, that is fairly accurate.
I'm very impressed! You really know your "F's"
post #7 of 17
Thread Starter 
anyone has any idea what my other 2 cats might be?
there are thousands of them here but no one can tell me what they are.
they have no name for them in Thailand. they call them all thai cat :P
post #8 of 17
Your other cats do have a similar look to them.

My hunch is that there's a breeding population of similar looking cats in Thailand that could be taken and formed into a "breed" a breed is just a bunch of cats all registered being bred to a written standard to try to keep the look the same.

If there are a lot of similar looking cats there someone could take a bunch of them, write up a standard and start up a new breed. It usually takes quite a lot of work to get the breed recognized and to have the cats producing the right consistent look but if you have random bred cats who are doing that already you've got half the battle won.

A lot of the current breeds started like that. People in Norway realised there was a similar look in a lot of their cats and started up the Norwegian Forest Cat, it's the same with the British Shorthair and actually most cat breeds.
post #9 of 17
Thread Starter 
a lot is good, 60% of all cat owners have em here
they are almost all identical.

they pretty much look the same as the gray oci cats i have seen.
They are rather dark, some have a more yellowish/brown tone.

Their fur is short and each hair has several bands of color except the black tail end.
compared to a bengal the fur is hard, never fluffy.



well whatever they are, i love them anyway.

i know i small breeder who use them to make F1 cats with an asian leopard and the fishing cat. The Result looks like the Malaysian bengal.
post #10 of 17
If its a close community, there would be a tendency to have more alike cats if the gene pool was liminted. That's what happened on the Isle of Man with the Manx cats - it was a "closed" colony, so the gene pool was strong in producing a lot of like cats.

Sounds like a similar thing in your area. And unless someone takes these cats and starts a controlled breeding program to produce a new breed - they are still just mixed breed cats.
post #11 of 17
Yeah, the "breed" of these cats are "Thai Moggies," essentially. For example, for some reason the random cat population on the east coast has more "big" cats -- cats that are just bigger overall, with a rounder face, bigger bone structure, etc., compared to the midwest. It's not a different breed, just different things becoming emphasized. My wife and I grew up in Minnesota and moved out to Baltimore, and the "average" cat size in the upper midwest is medium to medium-small. In Baltimore and stretching upwards to Boston, the overall random cat population seems to be "medium-large."

This is just regular evolution stuff, though. Feral cats are common in cities, but do not roam like birds or coyotes -- they typically stay in a close region near food. And cities are excellent food sources. Farms are too but farms are relatively closed off, in the scheme of things.

So cities end up being like geographical islands, and like physical islands, the cat populations will be different. There's TONS of Torties in Baltimore, for instance -- my wife had never seen a tortie in Minnesota.

So what you're seeing is simply the slight genetic differences in the random cat population present a different face than you're used to. As you've noticed, the locals think you're nuts because they're just cats to them. Just like my wife being wowed by seeing her first tortie.
post #12 of 17
Don't know where in MN you are looking, but I've seen torties here
post #13 of 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldenKitty45 View Post
Don't know where in MN you are looking, but I've seen torties here

Definitely seen torties in MN, both pet and stray.
post #14 of 17
Oh they're there, but there's a TON in Baltimore and in MD in general. Calico is the state cat. I'm just pointing out that the standard variations in cat physiology change from region to region, and definitely country to country. The wide variety in pedigreed cats means that any random population of cats could exhibit any range of those traits, but it doesn't mean those random cats have any special pedigree.
post #15 of 17
Thread Starter 
well whatever they are, i like them. Some are very beautiful having nicely defined spots and strong body structure.

i have seen some of them were used for breeding with the Asian Leopard cats, the result looks like the Malaysian Bengal.
post #16 of 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by Randis View Post
i have seen some of them were used for breeding with the Asian Leopard cats, the result looks like the Malaysian Bengal.
What's the difference between the Malaysian Bengal and "other" Bengals? Especially since the most of the ALC that started the Bengal breeding program comes from Malaysian ALCs?

True enough we don't have enough TICA or FIFE shows to determine if our Bengals are show worthy or not but I can assure you breed standards are met!
post #17 of 17
Thread Starter 
i fail to find much info about Malaysian Bengals myself but i am sure that the talk is not about Bengals in Malaysia. I checked out some Malaysian Breeders, they all import their cats from somewhere else.
It might be that people refer to the bengals you know, just using a different name. However it is said that they are smaller and differ in color, more dark and gray.

i have seen some from different owners, they sure look somewhat different.
Probably different cats were used for the breeding program. No one could tell by look only.

here a pic of a female, not the best example...


i have also seen some funny F1 cats. Father asian leopard, mother a thai cat.

You can introduce the mails whatever u like, they are not so picky :P
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