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Response to consult your vet prior to feeding a raw diet.

post #1 of 27
Thread Starter 
There was one more thing I wanted to say but the thread was closed.

I have no holistic vets in my area that are within easy reach for me. The 2 vets I mentioned Dr Lisa Pierson and Dr Hodgkins are vets I could only do telephone only consultations with, not actual in person visits because they are too far away. How I wish they lived within walking distance of my home. My vet has to be walking distance because I cannot torture my cats with a bus ride.

So therefore I strongly feel that it is ok for a person interested in feeding a raw diet to a healthy cat to do research on his/her own and make this decision without making an appointment with his/her vet for approval if there are no accessible holistic vets in his/her area within reach and all vets in his/her area are selling Hills diets and are against homemade raw diets. This person should however do phone consultations with these far away, out of the area holistic vets when advice is needed or if the person may need a second opinion or the assistance of a holistic vet who may be willing to work with his/her regular vet.

What do you think? You see it's inconvenient to have to seek approval from a vet to feed a raw diet when so many vets are against it and don't study animal nutrition. But perhaps this is a good compromise.
post #2 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by moggiegirl View Post
... You see it's inconvenient to have to seek approval from a vet to feed a raw diet when so many vets are against it ...
This is the part that I have a problem with ... if "there are so many vets are against it", then it seems only logical to me that there must be very specific ~reasons~ that so many vets are against it.

If we rule out all the vets who promote a certain brand of prepared cat foods because they are paid a commission for each bag/can they sell and we rule out all the vets that don't promote it because they aren't comfortable dispensing nutritional advice due to a lack of knowledge in this area, then we STILL have a whole big poo-pot full of vets who choose not to promote a raw diet for cats ... ?? ... if a raw diet is so much better for our cats then why would they not choose to promote it?

Vets are concerned with the overall ~health~ of our cats. And if there are still so many who don't advocate a raw diet even after taking away those who are paid commissions and those who aren't well-versed in nutrition, that tells me that they believe that a raw diet isn't as good as we think it may be for our cats. I know that my own vet is totally against it after treating several cats for ingested bones that caused obstructions and perforations in the digestive tract after people gave them "recipes" they found on the Internet.

The average person just doesn't do the research. They don't take the time or have the devotion to learn everything they need to know. They just figure that cats eat mice and birds and small mammals, so they can just toss them some raw chicken or hamburger and think the cats will be fine with that.

Our cats, as a species, are becoming more and more susceptible to both renal and cardiac issues. It is in the overall gene pool now and it isn't going away. The incidence of feline diabetes, hyperthyroidism and hypertension in cats is skyrocketing. Once thought to be found only in older cats, now even younger cats are experiencing these serious issues. Since cats mask their symptoms so very, very well, it just makes the best sense to rule out any and all health issues before changing their diet.

That's why IMO it is much, much better to consult with one's own vet before switching to a raw diet. Get the blood and urine labs done ... talk to the vet about the individual needs of your own cat based on the results of his/her thorough examination. If the vet you see is opposed to a raw diet, ask why and be open to really listening to their objections to it. And if they are not well-versed in nutrition as it relates to a raw diet, then ask them to research it with you so that you both can make a more informed decision. How is that such an inconvenience? Those considering feeding raw are obviously concerned about the good health and longevity of their beloved companions ... and should want the input of their cat's health care provider. It really is just the most responsible thing to do.
post #3 of 27
Phone consults that the holistic vet would talk with you and possibley a three way with your vet ... See I have two natural vets that TOUCH and FEEL and have the blood and urine tests in front of them .... To me it works better than a PHONE consult as they KNOW my girls individually ... YES THEY HAVE consulted multiple other vets VIA PHONE but NOT me calling a vet who has never seen my animal...

See a phone consult situation I would still NOT have a diagnosis with my dog ... Her TEST results were NOT inclusive and did not FULLY exclude anything .... BUT the vets had known her for a few yrs and treated her hands on and KNEW she had the disease be it VERY early stage ... and thus her diet was RE EVALUATED and herbs and med s adjusted .... Same with Kandie a PHONE would not have helped since they could not have seen the issues I could but am not able to describe ..

3 girls ... 3 VERY different diets thou a phone consult I did once yielded me a DIET that was one size fits MOST...

I stress talking to a vet from exprience ... I have dealt with no less than 20 vets in my 30 yrs and NEVER has a vet NOT been willing to help with diet ... and THey did NOT push the vet diets ... CONVENTIONAL vet that diagnoised Kandies CRF did HOURS of HOMEWORK with ME on her intial diet ....
post #4 of 27
Thread Starter 
For one thing, I have read numerous reports in regards to cats with health problems that have vastly improved on a raw diet, especially cats with diabetis and IBD.

The real problem is that conventional vets in general are way too busy to take time to research a raw diet and that most of them are Hills minded and greatly influenced by the pet food industry whose main mission is profit. I think it's unfair for someone who really wants to feed their cat naturally to have to consult a vet prior to doing so when there are no raw meat supporting vets in his/her area. I would be greatly limited to only be allowed to feed only commercial cat food to my cats without the option of a homemade raw diet. Billions of years of evolution evolved the cat to eat raw meat. For a so called veterinary authority figure to say "no" inspite of this truth is illogical to me. And if I had to follow this "Do not feed your pet raw" order to dominate my decision making I would feel uncomfortable as I would not have the option to provide my cats with a diet that is truly healthful. Where is the logic in feeding a cereal based diet to a carnivore just because so many vets support it? Feeding a carefully balanced raw meat to a diet to a cat, that's logical and it makes more sense. Additionally where is the logic in consulting with a vet who has not studied animal nutrition?

Plus I'd be willing to bet a million dollars that if we took away the above that you mentioned vets who are heavily marketed to by the pet food industry, vets who have not studied animal nutrition then there would be a much larger percentage of vets in support of the raw diet but they would insist that all careful research has been done and that cat owners do it properly (I understand your vet's concern, that's why I only give my cats bone that has been finely ground in the meat itself). But the boom of the dry kibble market especially prescription dry diets marketed heavily towards the veterinary community has been holding this back.

I agree that noone should embark on feeding a raw meat diet to a cat without doing careful research and that research should come from licensed veterinarians who are well versed in animal nutrition. But one does not necessarily have to pay a visit in person to this veterinary nutrition specialist if the person does not have such a specialist in his/her area. One can acquire resources of information that come from these specialists such as reading books, for example "Your Cat" by Dr Elizabeth Hodgkins, Dr Pitcairn's Complete Guide to Natural Health for Dogs and Cats, or even Lisa Pierson's raw information from www.catinfo.org and www.catnutrition.org another vet endorsed website full of information. This can be nearly as good as consulting a vet as long as the person thoroughly reads and understands the information. That doesn't mean that the person shouldn't find more sources of information in regards to the subject. One should always consult more than what's on the internet. That's why there are books.

Also I think we should also have faith that many people are fully capable of researching the subject on their own and educating themselves through multiple holistic veterinary nutrition resources as the pet food industry does not want us to to believe.

To mandate that a person wanting to feed a raw diet to a cat consult with his/ her "vet" would imply that those who do not have access to a raw meat supporting vet in his/ her area and do not have access to vets who have thoroughly studied the benefits and flaws of a raw meat diet should not be allowed to feed raw meat to his/her cat. That isn't fair and it isn't right.

After all the above examples of vets that I have mentioned have written their books and posted their information on their websites have done so in order to reach out to cat owners who do not have access to their services so that they may consult their sources of information and with them over the phone for those that do phone consultations.

I must also mention that Sharky is very lucky to have such an open-minded vet. I have not found such a vet in my area.
post #5 of 27
Had you talked to me about three and half yrs ago I would agree... but to illness , mine and their s I have learned YOU NEED an in the flesh DR be it human or animal.... I went to school for human nutrition yet still little working knowledge , books and phones are great aids but experience has TAUGHT ME LOADS ...

I am lucky but having dealt with vets in four states I dont understand the I DONT have one that will help.... I also Know my animals health is from nutrition and all the books and websites dont scratch the surface .... I learned and I am sure many other s will the hard way ... LUCKY for me , natural help was a mile away ..

NEED not have a vet that knows raw diets just one willing to ensure it is DONE CORRECTLY ... WHICH I DID NOT figure out the first go , so NO I HAVE LITTLE FAITH in most that are not educated as I ACTUALLY had quite a education and still stumbled....

IMHO IF you cant find a vet who will help guide or learn enough to aid you FIND A NEW ONE ... that is if you cant find a solid commercial food which is plenty fine for BILLIONS of animals around the world and has INCREASED lifespans ... Then study and share with your vet your intentions , Just to ensure YOUR DIET ideas are RIGHT FOR YOUR INDIVIDUAL ANIMAL...YES I have seen what RAW and Homemade diets can do for a healthy animal and a seriously ill BUT I have enough sense to realize a DVM behind a name might mean they know more of the % and micro and macro nutrients and my animal

You live in a HUGE city and likely within a short bus or taxi ride ( I am guessing you dont drive) there is a vet who thinks like you have learned to ...
post #6 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by moggiegirl View Post
Also I think we should also have faith that many people are fully capable of researching the subject on their own and educating themselves through multiple holistic veterinary nutrition resources as the pet food industry does not want us to to believe.
Research is needed and certainly don't just go to one site and believe everything you read there.

Raw feeding is common in Australia (for many not a complete diet but at least a few times a week), most breeders feed raw and all the vets I've met are fine with feeding meat and bones.


moggiegirl, I posted a thread with a link to pro raw vets maybe you can find one near you.
post #7 of 27
Thread Starter 
Quote:
IMHO IF you cant find a vet who will help guide or learn enough to aid you FIND A NEW ONE ... that is if you cant find a solid commercial food which is plenty fine for BILLIONS of animals around the world and has INCREASED lifespans ...
This is the part I have a problem with. Just because a cat does fine on a commercial food doesn't mean the cat won't do even better on a raw diet and what about those of us who don't want to be limited to processed commercial cat food and strongly dislike dry kibble. Yes canned food is ok but it's still processed. I strongly believe in feeding fresh foods at least a few times a week.

Also there are other factors contributing to the longevity of cats such as cats being kept indoors for their safety, medical attention when cats are sick.
Diabtetis is a man made disease directly connected to feeding dry kibble. Also cats that eat wet food are far less likely to develop UTIs. I really do not doubt that a natural diet is better for a cat than a commercial one.

Most of us do not consult a vet to feed a carefully balanced canned food to a healthy cat. I have chosen a carefully balanced raw diet that has all the vitamins and minerals a cat needs. For that I need a vet's approval in person? Dr Hodgkins approves of it. Dr Lisa Pierson approves of it. That's 2 vets approving of Feline's Pride www.felinespride.com. The only difference is that I didn't make an appointment with them.

Now if my pet is sick or has a medical problem, then of course I'm going to seek out the advice of a vet.
post #8 of 27
One of the main reasons you will not see many Vets recommending and endorsing a raw food diet is liability.

Feeding a raw diet is a semi-complicated process.

The majority of pet owners can't/won't/don't want to take the time to learn and then implement the process properly.

A nutrition knowledgable Vet will know the risks associated with the benefit of raw feeding and may decide that recommending this feeding regime to a particular client isn't advisable due to the fact that they may not follow instructions to the letter and their pet will suffer as a result.

In our lawsuit crazy world, it's safer to advise clients to stick with commercial foods.

I have 3 Vets. They all endorse and approve of my raw feeding plan for my cats. They also are aware that *I* know what I am doing. They also see the results in my animals and they are impressed.

However, I can safely say that they won't take it upon themselves to promote raw feeding to the general public.

It's not rocket science, but people are people and many will take shortcuts, misunderstand instructions, make unhealthy substitutions, forget safe meat handling precautions, etc. etc.

It's much easier and safer in many instances to hand pet owners a bag of kibble with the short instructions: Feed 1 cup twice per day, along with a fresh bowl of water.

I personally don't want my cats exclusively eating that stuff, so I put the effort in to learn and feed them what I feel is healthy, and the results speak for themselves.

Do I feel I need my Vet's endorsement and approval? Nope. I know more about feline nutrition than the 3 of them combined. But that's me. That's not your average Joe pet owner.
post #9 of 27
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by missymotus View Post
Research is needed and certainly don't just go to one site and believe everything you read there.

Raw feeding is common in Australia (for many not a complete diet but at least a few times a week), most breeders feed raw and all the vets I've met are fine with feeding meat and bones.


moggiegirl, I posted a thread with a link to pro raw vets maybe you can find one near you.
Thanks but unfortunately that list doesn't include San Diego. I'll have to find one that does house calls. I once tried the yellow pages with no luck. I'm going to be using a regular vet for dental cleanings but I don't think I'll be using the conventional vets for anything else.

I now agree that on this forum, considering that many pet owners are average Joes, we should reccommend that pet owners interested in a raw diet should consult with a qualified Holistic raw-supporting vet but not just any vet (as many don't support it). We have had some inquiries (I won't mention their names) from people who just wanted to try it and didn't seem to understand that specific supplements and a correct procedure is required. That's why Sharky said to consult a vet. I guess I just got into a debate because like the bengal poster I don't believe that I need an endorsement because I have researched it and in my case it's partially because I have never found a vet in my area who approved it.

Thanks, I'll end it now. Didn't mean to argue too much.
post #10 of 27
My accupucturist deals with Cal accupucturist for animals and humans still ... i will ask her if she know s of anyone in san diego ...if you want me too..

that list is missing alot but I suspect many vets DO NOT want it known as it can cause issues....

I didnt think it a vet endorsement just a person who has a better understanding than most via extensive education..
post #11 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by moggiegirl View Post
I guess I just got into a debate because like the bengal poster I don't believe that I need an endorsement because I have researched it and in my case it's partially because I have never found a vet in my area who approved it.
I don't believe anyone needs an endorsement either ... nor does anyone require their vet's permission to change diets. I really think you are missing the point I am trying to make here, Lamb.

What I mean is that anytime anyone changes the nutritional plan of their pets, they should check with the vet first for a thorough examination including lab work to ensure the animal is healthy enough to withstand the change.

They do not need a holistic vet for this. Their normal vet can perform all the necessary tests and examinations.

However, and this needs to be understood ... YOU did the research. YOU took the necessary steps to ensure that your plan either meets or exceeds the recommendations. YOU read up and what to do and what not to do. YOU consulted with known, reputable experts on the topic. Many average pet owners don't do any of these things.

And since we get more of those "average pet owners" here at TCS than we do those who put in the time to learn how to do it right, it is best that we advise them to seek the assistance of their vet before doing anything. It's all about remembering that not everyone is going to be as thorough and detailed as you might be and to advise them accordingly.
post #12 of 27
Thread Starter 
ok, I understand.
post #13 of 27
While I can understand that the prominent people in this forum would want to, and probably should, advise the conservative approach, the "all-or-nothing" tone of statements like this:

Quote:
I have to support the opinion that it is always best to consult your trusted vet or vet nutritionalist when it comes to the individual needs of your cats.
and
Quote:
What I mean is that anytime anyone changes the nutritional plan of their pets, they should check with the vet first for a thorough examination including lab work to ensure the animal is healthy enough to withstand the change.
do irk me just a little bit. Words like "always" and "anytime" don't leave any opening for the knowledge/experience level of the cat's caretaker, the age and health of the cats involved, and the nutritional knowledge of the vets involved, and the value of the advice likely to be received. I think these are all variables that have to be taken into account and providing they're sufficiently addressed, a responsible cat caretaker can make such a diet change without the recommended consultations and examinations.

Perhaps most cat caretakers should, but I didn't, and I don't believe I should have, because my level of knowledge in the area exceeded the level of the professionals I would have been seeking advise from, making it a waste of my time and my money. And as a matter of fact, I think (or at least I hope) my vet learned something from my experience, and I didn't even charge her for it. But then I didn't give her any Continuing Education credits, either.
post #14 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by coaster View Post
While I can understand that the prominent people in this forum would want to, and probably should, advise the conservative approach, the "all-or-nothing" tone of statements like this:

"I have to support the opinion that it is always best to consult your trusted vet or vet nutritionalist when it comes to the individual needs of your cats."

and

"What I mean is that anytime anyone changes the nutritional plan of their pets, they should check with the vet first for a thorough examination including lab work to ensure the animal is healthy enough to withstand the change."

do irk me just a little bit. Words like "always" and "anytime" don't leave any opening for the knowledge/experience level of the cat's caretaker, the age and health of the cats involved, and the nutritional knowledge of the vets involved, and the value of the advice likely to be received. I think these are all variables that have to be taken into account and providing they're sufficiently addressed, a responsible cat caretaker can make such a diet change without the recommended consultations and examinations.

Perhaps most cat caretakers should, but I didn't, and I don't believe I should have, because my level of knowledge in the area exceeded the level of the professionals I would have been seeking advise from, making it a waste of my time and my money. And as a matter of fact, I think (or at least I hope) my vet learned something from my experience, and I didn't even charge her for it. But then I didn't give her any Continuing Education credits, either.
I respectfully disagree. With the growing number of genetically-related illnesses in the domestic cat gene pool, I would think that - BECAUSE your level of knowledge exceeds the level of the professionals you have dealt with - you would absolutely want to make certain that there were no underlying health issues that could be exacerbated by a diet change, especially one so drastic as switching to raw.

Maybe I am taking the conservative approach here, but I feel strongly that for most, it is good advice. Yes, there are those out there who are willing to spend the time to learn the right way to do it, there are those who are ready to take on the challenge and all it has to offer both pet and human, but the grand majority isn't like you.
post #15 of 27
Frankly, I think you're putting a little too much faith in the ability of healthcare practitioners to find "underlying health issues." It's my experience that it's the observant caretaker who first becomes aware there might be an underlying health issue. One doesn't go to a vet to discover if there are health issues....one goes to a vet to confirm and diagnose. If you take a cat in apparently perfect health to a vet and ask for a wellness exam, the vet most likely isn't going to find anything wrong because they have nothing to look for ... no symptoms, no abnormal behaviors. Oh, cripes, I think I'm rambling and not getting my point across. Suffice it to say, I knew my cats were healthy and I didn't need a vet to confirm it before I switched them to a raw diet.
post #16 of 27
We fed raw for awhile and do intend to get back into it as the benifits to our cats were great. I didn't exactly consult my vet. I asked him what he thought of a raw diet and he told me it wouldn't do my animals any good. But when presented with my sick indoor (uri) cat and my healthy as a horse feral, he couldn't really say there isn't a benifit. All my cats got bloodwork and urine tests to make sure they were/are healthy. I did the research for whole prey diet. I passed everything pass my vet who talked it over with me and we went from there while keeping the cats monitored with bloodwork. I have learned and am always learning what is and isn't sfae raw wise for my cats. To me, there's always something more to learn and all it can do is benifit my cats.

When asked, personally, I do recommend talking it over with your vet. It's good to have the medical "team" to help in case something goes wrong. It's good my vet knows what I feed, when I feed, how much I feed, and what goes on with my cats.
post #17 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by coaster View Post
Frankly, I think you're putting a little too much faith in the ability of healthcare practitioners to find "underlying health issues." It's my experience that it's the observant caretaker who first becomes aware there might be an underlying health issue. One doesn't go to a vet to discover if there are health issues....one goes to a vet to confirm and diagnose. If you take a cat in apparently perfect health to a vet and ask for a wellness exam, the vet most likely isn't going to find anything wrong because they have nothing to look for ... no symptoms, no abnormal behaviors. Oh, cripes, I think I'm rambling and not getting my point across. Suffice it to say, I knew my cats were healthy and I didn't need a vet to confirm it before I switched them to a raw diet.
Honestly, I respect ... no, let me state it as I feel it ... I admire the fact that you are an observant caregiver and frankly, I wish ~everyone~ who chooses to share their homes and hearts with pets was like you.

But they're not like you.

When it comes to what we refer to as "Care Issues", which includes nutrition, it is the policy of TCS to always advise consulting the vet. This isn't going to change.

However, there was something in your comments above I wanted to address ...

When you say that "it's the observant caretaker who first becomes aware there might be an underlying health issue", I would like to point out to you that many times, some of these diseases do not present symptoms in the early stages. And by the time the observant cat caregiver notices these symptoms, it isn't early-stage any longer. Additionally, many cats hide their symptoms, especially in a multi-cat situation.

In the early stages, diseases such as diabetes, renal failure and heart disease are only found by performing labwork. A cat with early-stage renal issues may pee a little more, drink a little more ... but that's about it. And those things can so easily be justified ... the weather was warmer so the cat drank more and of course because the cat drank more, the cat pee'd more. So how would you know if the cat was sick if you didn't get the vet to assist you by performing a thorough exam with labwork?? Analyzing the blood of a cat in early stage renal compromise shows the kidney values to be out of the normal reference ranges. Anyone with a cat with kidney issues can tell you that the protein requirements for a cat in early-stage renal failure are different from a cat who has healthy kidneys. Raw isn't a good choice for those with renal system compromise. There is far too much protein and giving such a cat a raw diet is essentially speeding up the death of the kidneys.

I am not suggesting that someone who wants to switch their cats from say ... Friskies to Fancy Feast should consult their vets. But it is my opinion that a raw diet, done correctly, needs a partnership with the vet in the beginning so that the continued good health and well being of the cat is ensured.
post #18 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by gayef View Post

I am not suggesting that someone who wants to switch their cats from say ... Friskies to Fancy Feast should consult their vets. But it is my opinion that a raw diet, done correctly, needs a partnership with the vet in the beginning so that the continued good health and well being of the cat is ensured.


Just like many who come here think grocery name brands are premium

I too think MAJOR diet changes need to be discussed ... I made a mistake recently with my dog and I HAVE RESEARCHED... the dog is fine the error was feeding her a CANNED food when I forgot to make up enough homemade ... the ingrediants were nearly identical so I figured add some pumpkin and no trouble ... WELL there was trouble and I got a little talking to by two vets

Many of us are close watchers of kitty health but TOO MANY are not ... so my advice is AIMED at them ...
post #19 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by gayef View Post
When it comes to what we refer to as "Care Issues", which includes nutrition, it is the policy of TCS to always advise consulting the vet. This isn't going to change.
I can agree with that.

Quote:
When you say that "it's the observant caretaker who first becomes aware there might be an underlying health issue", I would like to point out to you that many times, some of these diseases do not present symptoms in the early stages. And by the time the observant cat caregiver notices these symptoms, it isn't early-stage any longer. Additionally, many cats hide their symptoms, especially in a multi-cat situation.
While I agree with that in general, you give a couple examples of early-stage disease that can be found by labwork. HOWEVER, a vet needs to suspect which early-stage disease needs to be investigated. You can't just throw labwork at a cat trying to find out if something's wrong. People just can't afford that. That's like healthy people going in for full-body MRI's and CAT scans just to find out if something's wrong. That's not how health care operates. You can't just look for anything and everything on the off-chance it might be there. You have to suspect something's there to know what to look for. Every disease has its own diagnostic protocol. And so even in the examples you give of early-stage disease found by lab work, you describe symptoms of that disease present even before going to the vet for confirmation and diagnosis. Which is exactly what I'm saying. Sooooooooo......healthy cats don't need labwork to look for something that isn't there.
post #20 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by coaster View Post
I can agree with that.


That's like healthy people going in for full-body MRI's and CAT scans just to find out if something's wrong. That's not how health care operates. You can't just look for anything and everything on the off-chance it might be there. You have to suspect something's there to know what to look for. Every disease has its own diagnostic protocol. And so even in the examples you give of early-stage disease found by lab work, you describe symptoms of that disease present even before going to the vet for confirmation and diagnosis. Which is exactly what I'm saying. Sooooooooo......healthy cats don't need labwork to look for something that isn't there.
Healthy people do go in for full body check-ups every year. In fact, I worked for one company where it was mandatory to have a medical every 5 years until the age of 40 and then yearly after that. I believe the whole reasoning behind yearly check-ups is to catch anything before it becomes a more serious issue, therefore I have to disagree that checking a "healthy" animal is not usually done. Our cats have a yearly checkup with their vet.

I've seen and heard of a number of people that take it upon themselves to go to health food stores and get advice from the clerks working there. I know for a fact that some of the clerks are high school kids doing a part-time job and don't know the first thing about what they are selling yet these people will take their word as gospel - dangerous.

When it comes to health, whether that be drastically changing diet, taking "natural" supplements from a health food store, or anything of that nature, it's best to err on the side of caution.

A lot of folks that come here asking for advice are new to owning cats, are not as knowledgeable or experienced as you, and that is why we suggest the vet route. Some folks also will not take the time to do the research you so obviously have done - they want quick, easy answers.
post #21 of 27
You misunderstood me. I said full-body MRIs and CAT scans. No responsible doctor would authorize, nor would any insurance company pay for, either of those procedures without valid cause. Just to see if there's something there isn't valid cause. I wasn't talking about annual wellness exams. Of course, wellness exams are appropriate for healthy animals as well as humans. Labwork without reasonable cause for needing the diagnostic procedures isn't. If the vet finds something during the exam that suggests the procedure is appropriate, then you have it done.

I don't think I'm making myself understood here. What I took issue with in the closed thread was language that implied the advice was directed at ALL people in ALL circumstances. Then the thread was closed, implying that was the final word. And could also be read to imply that I was irresponsible for not following that advice. If different wording had been used to say that it was generally-accepted advice that was recommended for MOST of the people MOST of the time, I would never had said anything. In a medium such as this, I don't think it's a good idea to use language that's all-inclusive -- language that implies a course of action is the best course of action for everybody in every situation. There are always bound to be exceptions.
post #22 of 27
This seems a little late, but shouldn't this whole thread be in Health and Nutrition?
post #23 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by katie=^..^= View Post
This seems a little late, but shouldn't this whole thread be in Health and Nutrition?

The original thread was closed and this one started in IMO, because the first thread became too opinionated.
post #24 of 27
95% of folks IMHO NEEDED that advise.... If you DID NOT think you did IGNORE it ... though I know a bit more than many of the pro s I STILL ASK ... WHY ??? cause IN MOST cases they have first hand experiance of 100s of issues you and I will likely never see.. and My conventional and holistic vets have caught things at pts I couldnt because the REAL symptoms you and I would see werent there yet but the blood , urine ... Feel free to Pm me and I will give you LOTS of storys .....

Now does the ave joe need more thanone to a few conversations about what they are feeding NOT likely .... ... But IT COMES DOWN to SAFETY ... Like Kai( sorry not sure if it is Nial or Terri) said about food safety .. That is safety for all which may take different measures ... Or the multitude of RAW and HOMEMADE feeders dogs I see reg that have OBVIOUS problems with skin , coat , breath all these could be avoided by talking with a VET ... I know many humans self medicate themselves , I do on occation but I do ask what I WAS NOT taught or if a new theroy comes up

not giving healthy animals blood work ... well so many issues arent seen in asymtomatic format till it is nearly impossible to treat ...
post #25 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by coaster View Post
You misunderstood me. I said full-body MRIs and CAT scans. No responsible doctor would authorize, nor would any insurance company pay for, either of those procedures without valid cause. Just to see if there's something there isn't valid cause. I wasn't talking about annual wellness exams. Of course, wellness exams are appropriate for healthy animals as well as humans. Labwork without reasonable cause for needing the diagnostic procedures isn't. If the vet finds something during the exam that suggests the procedure is appropriate, then you have it done.

I don't think I'm making myself understood here. What I took issue with in the closed thread was language that implied the advice was directed at ALL people in ALL circumstances. Then the thread was closed, implying that was the final word. And could also be read to imply that I was irresponsible for not following that advice. If different wording had been used to say that it was generally-accepted advice that was recommended for MOST of the people MOST of the time, I would never had said anything. In a medium such as this, I don't think it's a good idea to use language that's all-inclusive -- language that implies a course of action is the best course of action for everybody in every situation. There are always bound to be exceptions.
I don't really think we are misunderstanding you. What we are saying I believe is that YOU are the exception. MOST everyone else that comes here asking about raw feeding knows next to nothing, will NOT do the research necessary to ensure they do it correctly and that is why they are directed to work with their vet. Even Sharky, who has much experience and knowledge works with her vet.

If you read some of the posts by the average poster, they often will believe a lot of what they read on the internet - this is so dangerous. Like playing Russian Roulette with their kitties lives. It was recently recommended that a new member put a flea collar on their small kitten.

It's wonderful that you are well educated in raw feeding but you really are the exception and not the rule and here at TCS we really have to lean toward those with the general knowledge or very little knowledge. I personally wouldn't dream of trying to feed raw because I know next to nothing, don't have the time to do raw nor the inclination.
post #26 of 27
No, I still don't think I'm coming across, but it's no sense beating this with a stick any more....it's already died and gone on to its reward. I'll just bow out, now. I didn't intend to make anybody else upset.
post #27 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by coaster View Post
No, I still don't think I'm coming across, but it's no sense beating this with a stick any more....it's already died and gone on to its reward. I'll just bow out, now. I didn't intend to make anybody else upset.
I don't think anyone is upset so don't fret.
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