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Feral rescue still aggressive towards resident cat

post #1 of 24
Thread Starter 
Hi
(1) Despite weeks of trying My 3 year old feral rescue Hissy is still having issues socialising with other cats i have read all the information sent me and the thread on "Introducing a new cat to your old cat" and followed its recommendations carefully but when it comes to them actually meeting he wants to fight there is no sniffing or messing about just fights every time, So far I have kept Ginger my normal resident cat in her carrier during these meetings but today somehow he got hold of her tail and the last 5cm of her tail now droops strangely i tried to get a photo but she's gone into hiding.
I am beginning to wonder if i am wasting my time trying to socialising him and he will forever go crazy or does someone have any more ideas like putting something in his food to make him more friendly with other cats? so i can let him outside now and then
(2)
I have recently discovered Hissy has FLEAS. So is there any over the counter flea treatments what cats ENJOY, so the trust he has developed with me is not lost. Thanks for any help

Its not all doom and gloom because despite some stubborn problems, generally he is much better and making progress and will approach me for catnip and food even rubbing is allowed sometimes

Below pic hissy sitting on a PC that he peed in, looking almost normal but starting to get a bit humpy about the camera
Below on a lighter note some very weird behaviour since he has been inside
Will assault anything with feathers in and eats the feathers

While your seated he has started to stare at you for ages then sneak up behind you and lick your hair, if allowed to continue he starts to pull lumps out and eat it not sure if that is friendly or not?

I allowed him to roam upstairs one night and awoke to find him looking out the bedroom window i attracted his attention by moving my feet around under the blanket expecting some friendly feline interaction instead with without warning he launched from the windowsill and sort off hugged my foot through the blanket and bit THROUGH my toe nail, the wife had to hit him with the pillow several times to get him off THAT seriously hurt and i could hardly walk for days
post #2 of 24
I have a semi feral and it took a good six months for her and RB Kandie to remotely get along and a year before sharing the couch... it takes time

OTC flea NO NO ... frontline , advantage are vet avail or petco carrys
post #3 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by hissy5656 View Post
I have recently discovered Hissy has FLEAS. So is there any over the counter flea treatments what cats ENJOY, so the trust he has developed with me is not lost. Thanks for any help
Ask your vet for flea treatments -not sure which ones are available there (maybe some UK members could list them?). I and many other members won't suggest OTC because some of them are unsafe.

Hair licking and pulling sounds like an attempt to groom you... are rather rough attempt.

The same with him attacking your foot. He probably had to hunt in his past and thinks he has to 'subdue' his prey. He may not know it's really your foot and he shouldn't bite so hard. On that subject -don't let him think your hands and feet are for playing, toys only. The feathers won't hurt him as long as they're not large or dyed.

It also sounds like Hissy was a cat that had to defend himself a lot in his past. Hopefully some others have more tips for curing that behavior.

-Get Ginger's tail checked out. If he left any bite wounds it could get infected. And you'll probably want to put some flea treatment on her too.
post #4 of 24
Thread Starter 
Hmmm Thanks for your replys Seems like all the decent flea treatment is hidden away at the vets is that not stupid my usual vet is no longer interested in him (don't like ferals) due to his bad behaviour, Guess i can get some when ginger comes in and i can take her to the vet to get the tail fixed according to my neighbour its "broken" surly its not possible to break a tail i thought they made of grisly stuff
post #5 of 24
Find a vet that works with feral TNR programs. They WILL be able to deal w/ Hissy. Is Hissy fixed? Fix him PRONTO if you haven't already.

Get Feliway scent for the room, avail on line or at Petsmart/Petco.

That's Feliway - it uses the pheremones of cats to help create
calmness. Like you sniffing your favorite smells to clam down. Works well.

Don't let cats mix. Play with cat, but NEVER use hands or feet.

You can get Petfender - from Australia this is basically Revolution.
I don't think you need a prescription to order it. It works on fleas, AND deworms!! (a twofer) topical/skin application. Not a pill.

Let Hissy hide if he wants. Don't try to pet. Eating your hair is his way
of loving on you, grooming you. don't encourage.

Get a sheepskin for him to suck on (if you can, these are sometimes things
you can't afford or can only find online in my case.) Cats like wool, and the sheep skin fleeces remind them of Momma's fur belly and sucking... it sooths them...

Play light classical music on low.

PM our own Catsite member Hissy for assistance. She's done many feral tamings and might have even more/better advice.

and GO SLOW with cat intros! May take many months to intermingle them.

Confine Hissy to his room, put a screen door, so he can see out, hear what is going on. Swap him and your Ginger out of room, so he can roam while she's in his space. Eventually, you'll be able to open door and he'll leave Ginger alone....

Hope this helps.
post #6 of 24
Hello my name is Karen i have cared for a number of feral cats in my time and in regard to hissy, You seem somewhat impatient these things take time but if you are serious about making a life long commitment to hissy you should first change his name to something more complementary. Secondly Forget about playing him music, fragrances, etc, that's rubbish! instead is there any valid medical reasons why hissy cannot go outside????? generally without good reason it is cruel to keep a healthy cat indoors and certainly in this case there will not be satisfactory outcome without access to the great outdoors.
The hair licking is a friendly gesture but should be discouraged same goes for feather eating no harm done but discourage and as mentioned before cat toys are for playing not hands and feet. As for the fleas ferals don't take well to collars, etc. I use stronghhold a spot on the back of the neck treatment at some vets you can obtain it without even making an appointment

Thirdly off topic and on a personal note there is something about his face in the picture you posted is the original photo of a higher resolution if so i would love a copy to use on a project and what's his statistics either its a small computer or he is enormous
post #7 of 24
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by karenfos View Post
You seem somewhat impatient these things take time but if you are serious about making a life long commitment to hissy you should first change his name to something more complementary.
Wow that's a bit much it saddens me that i have given you an impression that i am impatient its been over seven months since i found hissy laying in the road following a RTA. Surly with my lack of knowledge and currently no vet support its not to unreasonable for me to post some of his behaviour problems here, also the cost of his treatment erection of enclosures etc. has totalled more than £2500 does that not show that i am committed enough?
Ok I accept the name Hissy may not be the best name as it highlights some negative behaviour.

Quote:
Originally Posted by karenfos View Post
Secondly Forget about playing him music, fragrances, etc., that's rubbish
Rubbishing other peoples valid comments is not nice, how would you like it?
Quote:
Originally Posted by karenfos View Post
is there any valid medical reasons why hissy cannot go outside????? generally without good reason it is cruel to keep a healthy cat indoors
I would be delighted if i could let hissy out again but i was forced to keep him inside because of serious problems like he would enter my neighbours property's via the cat flap and either spray or fight, In his last indoor fight before i confined him he bit my neighbour who was trying to break it up and her cat had later to have an eye removed, this was followed by complications infections etc. so far it has cost me around £820 I don't know how to stop it happening again if i let him out. I also had an outside enclosure erected but he would either yowl all night or go berserk if he saw another cat and damage his face bouncing off the wire. i cannot win
Quote:
Originally Posted by karenfos View Post
something about his face in the picture you posted is the original photo of a higher resolution if so i would love a copy to use on a project and what's his statistics
Yes it is send me a PM with your email address and i will send you the original file plus others that may be of interest as for the statistics he has not been that friendly to measure properly but prior to his banning at the vets The vet reckons his weight was approaching 22 pounds
post #8 of 24
DO NOT let him back outside...

Try to find a vet who will make a HOUSECALL...

I have a wonderful former feral in my life but IT TAKES YEARS of hard work... I am in Yr 3 and only now am I able to touch her whole body , pick her up as I NEED to ....

Please PM either HISSY or TNR1
post #9 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by hissy5656 View Post
Hi
(1) Despite weeks of trying My 3 year old feral rescue Hissy is still having issues socialising with other cats It can take months, even years for outside cats to adapt to being indoors, much less having to share their territory with other cats. Outside, they have their escape routes, their hidey holes, they are in charge of their world. Inside, they feel trapped, confined, anxious and are looking for ways to escape or places to hide.






i have read all the information sent me and the thread on "Introducing a new cat to your old cat" and followed its recommendations carefully but when it comes to them actually meeting he wants to fight there is no sniffing or messing about just fights every time, Some cats are sadly not meant to be kept indoors. Depending on their experiences in the world before they arrived in your care, their age, what age they were neutered and other factors, some cats just aren't willing to make such an adjustment. Is it possible you can build Hissy an outdoor enclosure all his own?



So far I have kept Ginger my normal resident cat in her carrier during these meetings but today somehow he got hold of her tail and the last 5cm of her tail now droops strangely i tried to get a photo but she's gone into hiding. She is hiding because she is scared and most likely in pain. Her tail can indeed be broken, although most likely it is a bite wound getting ready to abscess and she needs a vet.



I am beginning to wonder if i am wasting my time trying to socialising him and he will forever go crazy or does someone have any more ideas like putting something in his food to make him more friendly with other cats? so i can let him outside now and thenYou never can say you are wasting time when you are trying to win over a feral cat and gain his trust. But, he works on his own time schedule and will not even come close to doing things in your time frame. So don't expect so much out of him so quickly.
(2)
I have recently discovered Hissy has FLEAS. So is there any over the counter flea treatments what cats ENJOY, so the trust he has developed with me is not lost. Thanks for any helpSeriously, nothing over the counter is safe for treating fleas. You can get Advantage, Frontline or Revolution from you vet, my recommendation is Revolution, because him being an outside cat makes him prone to heartworm and Revolution prevents heartworm.

Its not all doom and gloom because despite some stubborn problems, generally he is much better and making progress and will approach me for catnip and food even rubbing is allowed sometimesSmall strides are good, his head bumping you shows you that he is accepting of you. But for now, I would keep all the other cats away from him.

Below pic hissy sitting on a PC that he peed in, looking almost normal but starting to get a bit humpy about the camera
Below on a lighter note some very weird behaviour since he has been inside
Will assault anything with feathers in and eats the feathers Perfectly acceptable behavior for any cat. They are predators first and foremost, and eating feathers is something that they do when they are hunting (or in the house when they are playing)

While your seated he has started to stare at you for ages then sneak up behind you and lick your hair, if allowed to continue he starts to pull lumps out and eat it not sure if that is friendly or not?I would switch your shampoo, chances are your shampoo has animal renderings in it. Go for something either organic or with some kind of citrus as an ingredient.

I allowed him to roam upstairs one night and awoke to find him looking out the bedroom window i attracted his attention by moving my feet around under the blanket expecting some friendly feline interaction instead with without warning he launched from the windowsill and sort off hugged my foot through the blanket and bit THROUGH my toe nail, the wife had to hit him with the pillow several times to get him off THAT seriously hurt and i could hardly walk for days
Again this is normal behavior and why I tell all my clients who have feral cats or kittens in their home not to engage in blanket wars. He is smart enough to figure you that your feet are underneath therefore your feet become his pery. You were lucky you didn't end up in the hospital on IV fluids because of infection.

Hissy is behaving just as any feral cat would. It doesn't matter how long you have had him in your care, he moves to his own rhythmn and beat. Sometimes the process moves quickly along, then you find yourself set back on your butt and you have to start all over again. Have patience and don't put so many demands on this cat. Ignore him for the most part so he can finally relax and when he is ready to accept others into this world, he will tell you. If he is openly aggressive all the time to the other cats consider building him a large enclosure outside where he can hang out and be happy. he may accept the other cats outside in his enclosure before he accepts them inside.
post #10 of 24
You cannot just throw money at hissy and expect the problems to go away, being a feral he requires special dedication this coupled with your low threshold of patience is a recipe for failure. The only way forward is to get him outside as soon as possible and trust me he will now associate your place with food and will return. This way your house can return to a state of normality and he can approach you in a non stressed environment on his own terms better for you and better for hissy.

The cross boarder nature of these forums can lead to confusion and the wrong advice given. In the UK there is no reason why hissy cannot go outside, In fact most UK cat owners do allow their cats out because they realise keeping cats inside is cruel even keeping them restricted in an outside enclosure is cruel, do zoo animals look happy?

In regard to the neighbour with the problem of him entering via the cat flap i have actually had that happen to me but in this case its down to the neighbour to install a cat flap which will only open for his cat. In the unlikely event that the problems with the neighbours are insurmountable or you are just unable to cope you probably do no worse for hissy than return him to the area where you found him at least you would have given him a second chance. In regard to the payments towards the injured cat there is no legal obligation why this should continue you are covered by the UKs 'free spirit clause' which allows cats to do anything and you are not liable

For further advice just contact me

By the way how's Ginger's tail???????
post #11 of 24
Hissy, Wow. A flame war, LOL.

In the states there is a huge movement to keep cats IN. In Europe
and otherplaces, people take a different view.

I'm not here to judge, just offer advice. Feliway, if you can find
it, DOES work.

So too, some of the other suggestions - changing shampoos, not engaging in blanket wars etc.

You might try the screen door approach. This is where one room becomes Hissy's. With a screen door that he/she can see through to view the rest
of the house. Eventually, Ginger and Hissy can interact THROUGH the door, without agression. Then over time you can switch them, so Ginger gets to be in Hissy's room and vice versa.

This usually works, but it can take MANY months to work.

I definitely suggest you look into ordering via Internet "Profender" ...
anti worming topical not pill, also get prescription for Advantage and
order online (cheaper that way).

http://www.petsonthepark.com.au/category16_1.htm a site to look at.

There are some home grown anti flea treatments using Boric acid but I wouldn't encourage use of those in a home setting. Nor would I
bomb or spray EXCEPT the baseboard areas and under furniture...
I sometimes am forced to tdo that in my house, despite having all my
cats on Advantage/Frontline.

All I can suggest with my experience of ferals and cats: some cats do NOT like other cats. They want to be TOP cat, and will beat up other cats to get there. Others, are very mellow, almost shy and will get picked on for it.

You cat could temperment wise fall into the top cat category. These cats often torment ones they live with.

I think the advice that it will take time is valid. So too the advice that you may need to keep (if remotely possible) Hissy as an in/out cat or provide shelter on your porche for him along with food, and medical when needed and leave it at that.

I know the US members and others will be upset, but if this cat has a true agressive top cat temperment, he will be very difficult for you to handle. There is no shame in admitting to the fact he may be more than you can deal with.

Sometimes the cats personality and previous history does play a huge role in their ability to interact with other cats...

Anyway, hope this all helps. I don't suggest you quit, I would try the His/her room option first, and definitely use the Feliway. It does help, nay sayers
notwithstanding...
post #12 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by karenfos View Post
The cross boarder nature of these forums can lead to confusion and the wrong advice given. In the UK there is no reason why hissy cannot go outside, In fact most UK cat owners do allow their cats out because they realise keeping cats inside is cruel even keeping them restricted in an outside enclosure is cruel, do zoo animals look happy?
I agree that certain cats are better off being outdoor cats rather than indoor, despite the best efforts and intentions of their human caregivers. And Hissy may very well be one of those cats.

But by no means does this mean that indoors-only advocates are "confused" or are giving "wrong advice". There are tons of excellent reasons for wanting to keep a cat indoors (in an enriched environment, of course). When indoors, they are not susceptible to cars, other aggressive/diseased animals including other cats, evil humans, mischievous kids, poisons, extreme weather conditions...These are just a few examples.

Saying that keeping cats inside is cruel is just silly and, as the proud owner of strictly indoors-only cats, rather offensive.
post #13 of 24
I guess when you took him in he was a whole tom. A dominating, non shy feral tom do often behave like this, beating up the homecats.
(Shy ferals are usually a lot easier in getting along with the homecats).

Is he neutralised now? As this should help - after a time... Feliway like the others said, is worth trying too, as one in the battery of things to do....

The net door someone mentioned could be useful yes.


And like other said, go with Ginger to the wet ASAP, dont wait to take photos.
(she too will be happier with Feliway, her home invaded by this hostile cat).

Good luck!
post #14 of 24
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by karenfos View Post
being a feral he requires special dedication this coupled with your low threshold of patience is a recipe for failure.
That comment is both unhelpful and rude. I am not impatient, true i am very much a learner and i have apparently greatly underestimated the time involved in socialising him, but if it takes years then that's no big deal.
Quote:
Originally Posted by karenfos View Post
the only way forward is to get him outside
Yes, i agree in hissy's case outside is probably best for him but there is a high pet population around here and in addition to the neighbours cat there was several other serious complaints and i heard him fighting a LOT so to be a good neighbour i will keep him inside until i can move later next year when i can take his needs into account.

Yes I am very concerned about ginger my normal resident cat so far i have been unable to capture her and the end 5cm of her tail has now dropped off, she will now just about come inside the door for food but will run straight out again i am going tie some string around the door and pull the door shut behind her next time.

About 6 weeks ago i had a proper cat enclosure erected the problem with him in it he would run at the mesh when he saw another cat this would cause injury's to his face he would also sneeze blood without vet support i brought him indoors. Would he just grow out of this and just get fed up of bashing his face on the mesh or could he seriously hurt himself or should i just forget the enclosure and keep him in the house where he is at the moment?
if its no good i shall demolish the enclosure

Does Feliway smell of cat pee?


Thanks for your help
post #15 of 24
No feliway is pharomones that attract cats to each other ...
post #16 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by hissy5656 View Post

Does Feliway smell of cat pee?
No, it is the same scent they have in their faces when they rub and bump you and everything around with their heads. The pheromone/scent they feel nice and safe and friendly.

Do google on it if you want.
In Sweden it is usually sold by veterinarians. Probably so also at your place.
post #17 of 24
One last thing assuming you can capture Ginger and she recoverers I sincerely hope your NOT going to try your 'socializing' efforts again. Ginger should be allowed to live out her days as she did before you decided to bring hissy indoors.

For further advice just contact me
post #18 of 24
I wish you the best of luck with Hissy.

The posters all have good ideas. I agree especially that not all cats are able to become indoor cats. I had a big boy that I found outside. He was a wonderful cat and loved people very much. He had a great personality and I wanted to keep him forever.

He just hated being inside though. He would cry and cry -- especially at night -- to go out. One night I couldn't stand it anymore and took him outside. After that he discovered I fed the outside cats every night and he joined them. He still came in occasionaly for half an hour, but he wanted back out.

Maybe Hissy is just an outdoor cat? Would he be safe outside where you live? Maybe you can put a shelter out for him and leave food and water in a convenient place and he can be your outdoor cat?

Whatever you do, thank you for helping him out. He sounds like quite a character!
post #19 of 24
I've heard great things about Flower Essences from Anaflora. In particular the Return to Joy and/or the Feral Cat Comforter may help in your quest to calm Hissy and help Ginger too. I am guessing that her products are the same or similar to Rescue Remedy that has been praised here on The Cat Site often.

Those fickle ferals can be stubborn, smart and really try our patience sometimes, but when we see that look of trust that they make us do somersaults for, all those trials are quickly forgotten.

I am hoping you can work it out to keep both Hissy and Ginger in with no serious troubles.

I've had some pretty hard ferals soften up a good deal just by being neutered. I've seen others ask, but you didn't say if he has been neutered yet. It can take a month or so for some of those raging hormones to settle down after being desexed, but it usually does make quite a difference.

I've heard, and my own experience says that if you want to have an indoor cat, it is often better to just keep them in all the time rather than allowing them out occasionally. Those small short trips outside just seem to feed the desire to be out.

Personally I don't think it's cruel to keep them in any more than I would think it cruel to keep a three year old child from going out to play on the curb with his/her little boat in a rain storm. What our kids and kibs want is not always what's best for them.

It sounds like Hissy was getting in trouble whether roaming loose or in the enclosure. (Ramming his face into the fence repeatedly is not a healthy and safe behavior.) I wouldn't just tear down the enclosure, but give it some time before trying to allow him or Ginger out in it again. Perhaps later down the road it will be something they enjoy. :-)

I wish you the best with your fur kids. Hang in there. I think you're doing more than fine and just need a place to vent and pick up a few pointers from time to time.

Do keep us posted on how things are going, and never hesitate to ask for help, suggestions, etc. Of course the answers will be many and varied, but you can usually pick through and pick up a piece here and there that will be just the thing for your situation.
post #20 of 24
Because hissy is such a handsome fellow i have been following you posts closely and i think you have been doing your best with hissy, but i strongly disagree with this suggestion

Quote:
Originally Posted by karenfos View Post
or you are just unable to cope you probably do no worse for hissy than return him to the area where you found him at least you would have given him a second chance.
in such an extreme case where you could not cope maybe organisations like the RSPCA, Cats protection League or battersea could find hissy a suitable home instead of just dumping him on some cold street somewhere That said! I wish you the best with hissy and Hang in there
post #21 of 24
Thread Starter 
Many thanks for your replies it seems strange to get good advice for free i will certainly be making enquires about Feliway and also Anaflora as it may help Ginger as she is now terrified and spends all day under the sideboard since hissy had a go at her, but at least she's seen the vet and inside. As for the fleas I have obtained some Revolution this product seems more of an American product so i hope its ok for uk cats as for the administering of this product the problem is the parting of fur and applying with hissy the only thing that gets parted is your skin so i just drop it on him from a distance and hope for the best i am trying to get him familiar with touching in that area maybe next months treatment will be better

I have abandoned my Hissy/Ginger socialising efforts so Ginger stays downstairs and hissy stays upstairs with access to the loft where he spends his time scratching the wallpaper off and glaring out the windows growling at the passing cats at night I dont allow him access to the bedroom since he bit my toe and my nail fell off

I am pleasantly surprised that hissy tries his best with a litter box he prefers for some reason little ginger's old box and with an expression on his face that cracks me up excavates a huge hole then stands on the side, this more often than not tips the box over. the mess when he's finished is usually amazing, i dont mind, he trys



Above Hissy a lot better than he was
post #22 of 24
Glad to hear that things are improving somewhat.

Maybe it's just me, or it's the angle that the picture was taken, but that litterbox looks awfully small for a cat of that size.
post #23 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by hissy5656 View Post
Revolution this product seems more of an American product so i hope its ok for uk cats
Yes, Revolution is the product name used, among others, in USA. In most other countries it is called for Stronghold I believe.
Everywhere it is confirmed as an useful anti-parasit product.

So you dont need to worry for your Briton-cats!

(ps: Stronghold/Revolution is often used by rescue-groups on feral cats: it is very easy to administer, you hardly dont even need to hold the cat. So I guess your adminstration is quite adequate, even if you dont manage to part the fur and lay the drops on the skin as written in the prescription.
You must beware though of open fire in the next half-an hour, the liquid is flammable. and you have often open fires in Britain... )



Glad to hear things are improving, slowly but sure.
post #24 of 24
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by RobertM View Post
Glad to hear that things are improving somewhat.

Maybe it's just me, or it's the angle that the picture was taken, but that litterbox looks awfully small for a cat of that size.
That's little Ginger's old box i brought him a huge new one, filled it with the same stuff and he would not go in it, instead he went beside it and pulled the stones out the box to cover up All my pets have been strays and he is most certainly the strangest. Thanks also for the info on Revolution stepanz hopefully i will get more on hissy next time.
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