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BYBs and Certain Breeds

post #1 of 22
Thread Starter 
So it's bothering me lately. Why Persians and Siamese? DH thinks that it's because they are seen as "the rich people cats" and therefore BYBs see them as more likely to sell at a higher price, but how true is this?

I'm bothered by the number of Persians and Siamese (and Himmies) that I'm seeing showing up in pet stores lately, and it's truly saddening me as somebody who particularly loves the Persian breed.

Part of me is still debating taking on Persians (if/when I start to breed) instead of Ragdolls, in particular because I've owned Persians before. But how over-bred are they right now? And *why?*
post #2 of 22
I think the Siamese and the Persians are very well known and popular breeds and that is why they have attracted so many backyard breeders and are often the only purebreeds found in petstores.
post #3 of 22
I dont think its just persians and siamese. I think one reason they are seen more with BYB is because they are popular. Not ness rich people cats Lord knows I am not rich. But they as a whole are visable, have been around a long time and are popular.

But thats my two cents.
post #4 of 22
Thread Starter 
^^

Just a question for you as a side line.

Given my considerations (remember, not soon, not before a lot of research and showing in HHP and altered classes), how do you feel about breeding Persians? I *love* them as a pet, and I want the breed I choose to be great in terms of their qualities as a pet as well as their other qualities. I've not owned a Ragdoll, but I've never owned a purebred with a better personality than the Persian (personally).
post #5 of 22
I love breeding persians. Its very fufilling. It can be hard sometimes, when you lose a kitten but that happens with any breed. I love my girls and my boy Caesar. I never would have picked another breed and never will. I love love love my persian babies.
post #6 of 22
Thread Starter 
*sigh* DH doesn't like their faces, though he does admit that he loves their personalities. I have literally never met an all-round sweeter breed. I also think he might be upset by their small size -- he likes *big* cats (Maine Coon sized cats), but this isn't his choice in the long run, it's mine.

I'm becoming *really* torn looking at your most recent litter. I think that's a lot of what's killing me, is that "tug" to own another Persian cat. It's slightly cost-prohibitive in terms of what I know many breeders to be selling their kittens for, but ultimately, the cost isn't where the decision is made, the decision is made in what's best for us.

I assume that the number of Persian BYBs doesn't affect your ability to find good homes for your kittens. I just realized the reason *why* and that makes it encouraging to look into Persians for a second time. Thanks!
post #7 of 22
I don't think it has anything to do with being rich either, they are popular breeds so easy to sell as impulse buys.

Over here, they sell anything fluffy as a Persian or Raggie. Any hot breeds (like the Bengals currently are here) always attract the BYB's.
post #8 of 22
Thread Starter 
^^

They *claim* at the pet stores that these kittens are CFA registered. Now mind you, I've never attempted to purchase one, so I wouldn't have seen the documentation on them at all. However, the "Persians" usually don't appear to be Persians at all.

If it relates to popularity of the breed, what makes these two breeds so popular?
post #9 of 22
There are actually registered breeders who will supply the pet shops. Not top quality cats, pet q bred to pet q.

Cannot answer as to why those 2 breeds are so popular
post #10 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by missymotus View Post
There are actually registered breeders who will supply the pet shops. Not top quality cats, pet q bred to pet q.

Cannot answer as to why those 2 breeds are so popular
I think they're popular because they're 2 of the older breeds, so very familiar to people. Each has a very distinctive look and personality, at opposite ends of the cat spectrum to one another. I bet that most people who aren't even into cats could give you a vague description of a Persian and a Siamese, even if they've never heard of any other breed. I have had plently of people say to me that they didn't know there were any cat breeds besides those two!
post #11 of 22
I agree that it's due to popularity. The most popular breeds over here (in numbers of registrations) are british shorthair, siamese, bengal and persian - in that order. They are the breeds people want so there is a market for them. I very much doubt there is a market for backyard breeders of Somalis, for example, over here simply because your average member of the public has never heard of them! Consequently the same breeds turn up most often in rescues.
post #12 of 22
Yep it is because of popularity. Where I live you can buy a Persian with papers for $150. But those cats will be pet quality and more and likely will suffer from some sort of disease. The Siamese in my area go as low as $50 with papers but do not look anything like the show Siamese. Those breeds actually cost less than the minority breed. You will not get a pet quality Somali under $650 unless you are friends with a breeder.
post #13 of 22
A few years ago, I used to think that most cats except Siamese, and Persians were Moggies. One of my friends had a show quality Maine Coon, and I just thought he was a Domestic Long Hair. He didn't look much different from a moggie to me. I would have never known, if I'd seen a Bengal that it was anything other than an ordinary Tabby Cat, now mind you, I would have thought it was a unique and beautiful Tabby, but I would have never known that they were a real breed.

I had heard of Russian Blues, but even they just looked like Moggies to me. I would have looked at an Oriental and just thought it was a Siamese Mix.

I grew up with Siamese cats, because my mother loved that breed so much, and I loved them as well. I now have 2 Siamese, and 2 Bengals, but when I took Simba in to my office for them to meet him, when he was a kitten, most of the people didn't think he looked any differnt than a tabby kitten, and they couldn't believe I paid $1000 for a kitten that they felt I could get at a shelter for a whole lot less. They noticed his spots, but didn't think that was anything THAT unusual. Personally, I think most people out there just don't know the breeds, and if they aren't Siamese or Persian, then they think they are moggies.

So, of course BYB are attracked to those more well known, more popular breeds. As Bengals are getting more and more popular and more well known, they too are becoming the kind of cats BYB are attracted to.
post #14 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by ghosthunterbeck View Post
*sigh* DH doesn't like their faces, though he does admit that he loves their personalities. I have literally never met an all-round sweeter breed. I also think he might be upset by their small size -- he likes *big* cats (Maine Coon sized cats), but this isn't his choice in the long run, it's mine.

I'm becoming *really* torn looking at your most recent litter. I think that's a lot of what's killing me, is that "tug" to own another Persian cat. It's slightly cost-prohibitive in terms of what I know many breeders to be selling their kittens for, but ultimately, the cost isn't where the decision is made, the decision is made in what's best for us.

I assume that the number of Persian BYBs doesn't affect your ability to find good homes for your kittens. I just realized the reason *why* and that makes it encouraging to look into Persians for a second time. Thanks!

Aw thank you. No the number of BYB does not affect my ablity to find good homes. we do get the ocassional hmf and haw about price and that they could get the cat cheaper somewhere ekse ect..when that pops up i gently inform them that very likely thats A BYB and to have a nice day. price is not everything and i am known to be very flexible. but if they complain about the initisl price, i always wonder what would they do over vet bills ect.

I love my babies
post #15 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScamperFarms View Post
Aw thank you. No the number of BYB does not affect my ablity to find good homes. we do get the ocassional hmf and haw about price and that they could get the cat cheaper somewhere ekse ect..when that pops up i gently inform them that very likely thats A BYB and to have a nice day. price is not everything and i am known to be very flexible. but if they complain about the initisl price, i always wonder what would they do over vet bills ect.

I love my babies
very true ... cept for folks like me who always find a way for the vet ( lol so far this yr Gigi is running about 4 grand just for her ) but I seldom have the extra $$ for initial
post #16 of 22
I feel ya on that. Its just I am easy to work with I do take payments most people who haggle me for it dont realise how much goes into the kittens.

We just laid down 5grand for Caesar So I know what ya mean.
post #17 of 22
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScamperFarms View Post
but if they complain about the initisl price, i always wonder what would they do over vet bills ect.
That was my point People who do business with you do business with you because they love your babies as much as you do and are willing to care for them.

Of course, just because somebody doesn't *want* to pay hundreds of dollars for a pure-bred doesn't mean that they won't have the pet vetted, either. But I think that if you're looking at a pure-bred and you're concerned about price, then there's something really a bit amiss.

At one point I think I could honestly say that I would have "price shopped" as long as the quality was there, but at this point, I'm more concerned with the quality of the animal and the quality of the *breeder* than I am with the price when I finally do purchase my kitten.
post #18 of 22
I can understand if someone doesnt want to pay hundreds. But like you said when your looking at purebreds, Your going to pay. And while it may not *always* be the case I think alot of times you get what you pay for. I put far more into my kittens than I get back Money wise. and thats ok because I do this for the love of my babies. I am happy if *most* of my costs are met.

reminds me I have to update the website Gave another bath and blow dry and put together another kitten kit. Setting out for SD in the morning with little miss Gaia.
post #19 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by kitytize View Post
Yep it is because of popularity. .
Yes I agree 100%. Supply and demand to an extent. Just like with dog breeds. The more "popular" a breed is, the more BYB it attracts. The more sheer numbers being produced of the breed. My breed (Sphynx) is dubbed rare but I sure do see a lot of BYB's in the breed. I assume this will only get worse as time goes on. But it will never get to the level as the two you mentioned, as supply and demand will never be as high and they will never be as popular. Which I am thankful for, popularity really doesn't help most breeds in today's times. It helps ruin them and put more health issues in them as ,more backyard breeders crop up and don't know what they are really doing.
post #20 of 22
Exactly, BYBs generally care only for a quick buck, not about any real aspect of the breed. It's sad, really, and it means that they simply prey on people who don't understand pedigree and *why* some cats are so much more expensive.

I've said this in other threads but part of the major cost of a high quality show cat is how much work the breeder puts into his or her kittens. They don't have a cardboard box in the garage that they keep them in, but often an entire room -- or most of a house. They often go above and beyond standard vet care, buy excellent foods, and spend a lot of time with the kittens.

The thing that's really ironic is that BYBs will pick up a popular breed and then undercut the actual breeders, in order to make a quick buck. Due to that, the price of the pedigreed animals inevitably goes up, as it's harder to place pet-quality or retired kittens (as people think "hey I can get that cat for cheap, why get one from this guy?").
post #21 of 22
It amazes me that people think breeders of prize winning cats make money.... BYB's make money for some of the following reasons:

1. Lack of veterinary care
2. Breeding the females more than 2x a year without respite until "old" age (I've met a BYB with a 9 year old female Persian, and she's still breeding 2x a year)
3. Low quality food and litter
4. Lack of human attention
5. Sheer numbers

I will admit that perhaps some of the top catteries in the world can more than cover costs because they can command a high price for their cats - and well deserved too!

You don't become one of the best catteries in the world by sheer luck! It takes passion, time, energy and a whole lot of love to become say Bastis for Abyssinians, Tsar Blu for Russian Blues, D'Eden Lover for Persians and Exotics, Shubacoons for Maine Coons to name a few. These names are world renowned in their chosen breeds and everyone who wants to breed these breeds wants one of their cats to be in their lines...

And yet, these world renowned catteries don't really charge all that much for their cats considering...

BYB's are all about demand and supply. You demand, they supply. Sad but true. For the top catteries, you can demand all you like but usually they produce at most 2 litters a year which means their waiting list is at least 3 years long (I should know, I'm still on the wait list for a Bastis Aby!)....
post #22 of 22
Someone posted on the first page that they thought of Persians and Siamese as rich people cats. I wanted to agree to a certain extent, having been a person who could recognize only a few breeds based on looks. I always thought of Persians and Siamese as high-status cats. Kind of like having a flashy car. I know now that is not the reality, but the mostly ignorant public may see it the same way.
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