wow, the cats on this page are just beautiful! I am a lover of just normal (no paper) cats but I can see why people fall in love with a certian breed.
-
Too many ads? Join our community of cat lovers now to reduce ads by 90%! Click here to join for free!
Finding a Cat
- Thread starter shadownet
- Start Date
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #22
the amount of ALC (asian leopard cat in them)
F1 min 50%
F2 min 25% etc
F4 is where the amount of ALC is considered small enough that they are basically about as wild as other domestics.
F1 min 50%
F2 min 25% etc
F4 is where the amount of ALC is considered small enough that they are basically about as wild as other domestics.
The F numbers (as I tend to call them) signify how close to the original wild cat the cat is.
An F1 means it's one generation away from a pure wild cat so a wild cat is the parent. That's 50% wild blood.
An F2 has 25% wild blood and has a wild cat as the grandparent.
F3 is then 12.5% wild blood and on it goes.
However when you hit F4 in bengals and F5 in Savannahs the males become fertile so you can breed bengal to bengal or savannah to savannah and you don't get much more dilution so most pet bengals for example are probably between 2.5-6.5% wild blood, of course you never know exactly what genes come from what parents.
The F1, F2 especially are quite heavily part wild non domesticated cats which is why they require special licenses or are illegal in some parts of the world. That's also why they can have some behavioural "problems" that are not usually encountered in normal cats. They can have heightened reaction to various stimulus and handle any change in their routine very badly. Putting them in a cattery or getting someone to look after them while you go on holiday for example is very hard to do.
Also early generation Bengals have a big tendency to use water as their toilet so they will go in sinks, bathtubs, showers, their water dish etc.
I don't think that anyone should get an early generation pet without having had a lower generation cat for a while first. The SBT (SBT is any cat F4 or further away from the wild cat) cats are often too much cat for people anyway. Like I mentioned earlier my Nikita is an F10-F12, the bengal breeders have done a fantastic job in keeping the coats and type of the cats without constantly needing to go back to the wild cat.
An F1 means it's one generation away from a pure wild cat so a wild cat is the parent. That's 50% wild blood.
An F2 has 25% wild blood and has a wild cat as the grandparent.
F3 is then 12.5% wild blood and on it goes.
However when you hit F4 in bengals and F5 in Savannahs the males become fertile so you can breed bengal to bengal or savannah to savannah and you don't get much more dilution so most pet bengals for example are probably between 2.5-6.5% wild blood, of course you never know exactly what genes come from what parents.
The F1, F2 especially are quite heavily part wild non domesticated cats which is why they require special licenses or are illegal in some parts of the world. That's also why they can have some behavioural "problems" that are not usually encountered in normal cats. They can have heightened reaction to various stimulus and handle any change in their routine very badly. Putting them in a cattery or getting someone to look after them while you go on holiday for example is very hard to do.
Also early generation Bengals have a big tendency to use water as their toilet so they will go in sinks, bathtubs, showers, their water dish etc.
I don't think that anyone should get an early generation pet without having had a lower generation cat for a while first. The SBT (SBT is any cat F4 or further away from the wild cat) cats are often too much cat for people anyway. Like I mentioned earlier my Nikita is an F10-F12, the bengal breeders have done a fantastic job in keeping the coats and type of the cats without constantly needing to go back to the wild cat.
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #26
I don't know if you were talking to me, but I know about Servals.
I read a lot about them, and I know where they are from. I don't think
I said I wanted to buy one.
So, it doesn't matter about the how far away they are from the wild
cat, correct? They still carry the same traits? Looks the same and all?
I read a lot about them, and I know where they are from. I don't think
I said I wanted to buy one.
So, it doesn't matter about the how far away they are from the wild
cat, correct? They still carry the same traits? Looks the same and all?
Pretty much, basically once you hit F4 you have cats that are much easier to care for and make better pets usually than the F1, F2 and F3s, after you're at F4 it doesn't matter how far the cat is from the wild cat as long as you're getting your cat from a good breeder who knows what they're doing and use good cats.
You should only be dealing with good breeders anyway so yeah, it pretty much doesn't matter.
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #28
The wild cat that was bred into domestic cats to make bengals is the Asian Leopard Cat, they're a small tree dwelling jungle cat. Nocturnal and shy.
The ALC is the same size or even slightly smaller than the Bengals. They have very big nocturnal eyes. You can see what they look like here: http://images.google.com/images?q=asian+leopard+cat
They're very reserved, nocturnal and shy and don't tame down much and don't like to be handled when kept in captivity and react very intensively with a fight or flight reaction if startled.
While Bengals are usually very social high maintenance cats that want to be the center of everything that's going around. They've gotten those gregarious "I'm happy around humans" qualities from the domestic pet cats that are the bigger portion of their heritage. That's what makes them pets rather than wild animals.
The ALC is the same size or even slightly smaller than the Bengals. They have very big nocturnal eyes. You can see what they look like here: http://images.google.com/images?q=asian+leopard+cat
They're very reserved, nocturnal and shy and don't tame down much and don't like to be handled when kept in captivity and react very intensively with a fight or flight reaction if startled.
While Bengals are usually very social high maintenance cats that want to be the center of everything that's going around. They've gotten those gregarious "I'm happy around humans" qualities from the domestic pet cats that are the bigger portion of their heritage. That's what makes them pets rather than wild animals.
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #30
How smart are Bengals? If you could give examples, I would appreciate it.
How agile are they? How high can they jump, what distance, ect.
And is any of this effected by the "F numbers" or however you would say that?
How agile are they? How high can they jump, what distance, ect.
And is any of this effected by the "F numbers" or however you would say that?
They're very smart usualy, good at outwitting you and finding the loophole in everything you try to teach them. I.e aha I'm not allowed on the counter when you can see me! also good at finding ways of getting your attention, be it throwing little things off shelves, pulling clothes down, banging on loose doors to use them as a drum, licking your face, poking you in the face with ever increasing claws if you don't respond. Figuring out exactly the one thing you don't want them to do and then do it so you won't ignore them and the attention they want is usually for more play. It goes on. For example she has a period when she'd unplug my laptop if she thought I was spending too much time on the computer.
Very athletic, Nikita usually jumps around 4' in the air, up to around 5' sometimes. She also jumps on top of doors and really liks high places. Putting something high up to keep them away from it is not going to work.
Normal SBT Bengals are too high maintenance for a lot of people, they have too much drive and energy and really even having done research before most people who get them end up being somewhat surprised by these cats.
That is magnified tenfold with the early generation cats and then you can have the added problems of the cat maybe not wanting to be petted when they grow up, really bad at handling any change for example if you move or have a baby, sometimes needing to eat a specially prepared diet of raw meat and offal, not great litterbox habits i.e wanting to go in water etc.
This all depends on the individual cat of course I'm more talking general trends.
Here's a great description of Bengals:
http://www.bengalcatclub.com/art-1.htm
NB: This is about standard bengals, i.e F4 or less % wild blood than that.
http://www.bengalcatclub.com/art-1.htm
NB: This is about standard bengals, i.e F4 or less % wild blood than that.
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #33
I pretty much laughed through all of that.
My cat was born from a wild cat, and she was born in the
wild. She acts a lot like that. Doritos are her favorite.
Sometimes when I walked in the kitchen it looked like the
bag exploded.
I like what I hear. I love the energy they seem to have,
and they look like fun.
My cat was born from a wild cat, and she was born in the
wild. She acts a lot like that. Doritos are her favorite.
Sometimes when I walked in the kitchen it looked like the
bag exploded.
I like what I hear. I love the energy they seem to have,
and they look like fun.
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #34
I know a lot more about Bengals than Savannahs since I have a Bengal but have never seen a Savannah in real life.
Here's a good article on the early generation Savannahs: http://www.nitewindes.com/earlygen.html
And this one here is about Bengals and Savannahs and compares the two:
http://www.nitewindes.com/BengvsSav.html
Since the Savannahs are such a new breed there is a lot of variation in the later generation ones. I.e they don't really have a consistent look yet although the breeders are working on it all the time.
Here's a really pretty pet Savannah I know of:
I know he has to be confined to a special room when unsupervised or he'll wreck the place. I think he's an F3 or an F4.
This girl here is an F3 Savannah as well: http://www.heavenlyspottedcats.com/lil/lil2.jpg The look really can vary quite a lot.
As a contrast here's a really high quality SBT Bengal. He's a famous show cat that was recently sold for a lot of money (if I remember correctly)
http://www.bengalspot.com/thriller/thriller9.jpg
http://www.bengalspot.com/thriller/THRILLERIMAGE.jpg
Back to the Savannahs here's a page with some info and quite a few photos of the early generation cats: http://lynxoticatz.tripod.com/Savannah.htm
Forgot about Savannah prices, they depend on the breeder and the cat but roughly it's usually something alone the lines of:
Savannah Males
F2 $2500 - $4000
F3 $1500 - $3000
F4 $900 - $2000
Savannah Females
F2 $3500 - $5000
F3 $1500 - $3500
F4 $900 - $3500
Post F4 the price probably evens out at similar to SBT Bengal prices i.e 600-1000$ for pets. Breeding cats are usually atleast double that and great show potential cats can be as well. Often though you get show quality kittens sold as pets.
Here's a good article on the early generation Savannahs: http://www.nitewindes.com/earlygen.html
And this one here is about Bengals and Savannahs and compares the two:
http://www.nitewindes.com/BengvsSav.html
Since the Savannahs are such a new breed there is a lot of variation in the later generation ones. I.e they don't really have a consistent look yet although the breeders are working on it all the time.
Here's a really pretty pet Savannah I know of:
I know he has to be confined to a special room when unsupervised or he'll wreck the place. I think he's an F3 or an F4.
This girl here is an F3 Savannah as well: http://www.heavenlyspottedcats.com/lil/lil2.jpg The look really can vary quite a lot.
As a contrast here's a really high quality SBT Bengal. He's a famous show cat that was recently sold for a lot of money (if I remember correctly)
http://www.bengalspot.com/thriller/thriller9.jpg
http://www.bengalspot.com/thriller/THRILLERIMAGE.jpg
Back to the Savannahs here's a page with some info and quite a few photos of the early generation cats: http://lynxoticatz.tripod.com/Savannah.htm
Forgot about Savannah prices, they depend on the breeder and the cat but roughly it's usually something alone the lines of:
Savannah Males
F2 $2500 - $4000
F3 $1500 - $3000
F4 $900 - $2000
Savannah Females
F2 $3500 - $5000
F3 $1500 - $3500
F4 $900 - $3500
Post F4 the price probably evens out at similar to SBT Bengal prices i.e 600-1000$ for pets. Breeding cats are usually atleast double that and great show potential cats can be as well. Often though you get show quality kittens sold as pets.
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #36
What is the difference in the sizes with F1 and F4?
Also, that price isn't horrible, is it? My girlfriend bought
her puppy for $1000, so that doesn't seem bad.
Thanks for all your help, I really apreciate it.
*Edit*
Is a female or male better? I mean with their attitudes.
Also, that price isn't horrible, is it? My girlfriend bought
her puppy for $1000, so that doesn't seem bad.
Thanks for all your help, I really apreciate it.
*Edit*
Is a female or male better? I mean with their attitudes.
Have you read through the pages I linked to? To quote directly from one of them
"At this stage in the development of the Savannah, it is impossible to predict future behavior in a young kitten, and how big each kitten will get. We can only speculate. If I must generalize about the breed... The F1 and F2 males have the potential to be very large cats and look rather wild, and the size is usually lost with later generations. However, some of the behavior traits that some people do not want are also usually lost. How big will the other generations get? Nobody knows for sure. (My mom couldn't tell you how big I was going to get either) I've seen various sizes in one litter. The breed is still in its infancy and one day we hope to be able to generalize with more accuracy."
I.e you can't really predict it but mostly the F4 and later are normal cat sized. Still I really strongly recommend against you getting an F1 or F2 Savannah. Get an SBT Bengal or a later generation Savannah first and get to know their type and personality.
Like I've said before even the "easy" SBT Bengals and the later generation Savannahs are quite a handful and plenty of people can't cope with their temprament.
Edit: Male or female? I don't know. It depends on the cat. The males are usually bigger and often a bit more naughty while the girls can be more territorial, especially when it comes to other cats but that's common with all cats.
"At this stage in the development of the Savannah, it is impossible to predict future behavior in a young kitten, and how big each kitten will get. We can only speculate. If I must generalize about the breed... The F1 and F2 males have the potential to be very large cats and look rather wild, and the size is usually lost with later generations. However, some of the behavior traits that some people do not want are also usually lost. How big will the other generations get? Nobody knows for sure. (My mom couldn't tell you how big I was going to get either) I've seen various sizes in one litter. The breed is still in its infancy and one day we hope to be able to generalize with more accuracy."
I.e you can't really predict it but mostly the F4 and later are normal cat sized. Still I really strongly recommend against you getting an F1 or F2 Savannah. Get an SBT Bengal or a later generation Savannah first and get to know their type and personality.
Like I've said before even the "easy" SBT Bengals and the later generation Savannahs are quite a handful and plenty of people can't cope with their temprament.
Edit: Male or female? I don't know. It depends on the cat. The males are usually bigger and often a bit more naughty while the girls can be more territorial, especially when it comes to other cats but that's common with all cats.
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #38
I was at someone else's house when I checked it, so I
looked over it, but I didn't read it. Sorry about that.
So, an F4 is like a normal size cat. Are F3's just unpredictable
when it comes to size and temperament? I kind of wanted something
bigger, but a normal size would be fine.
I saw a video of a Savannah jumping seven feet in the air.
Does what generation they are effect their athletic capabilities?
looked over it, but I didn't read it. Sorry about that.
So, an F4 is like a normal size cat. Are F3's just unpredictable
when it comes to size and temperament? I kind of wanted something
bigger, but a normal size would be fine.
I saw a video of a Savannah jumping seven feet in the air.
Does what generation they are effect their athletic capabilities?
Please read carefully through all the articles I linked in the earlier post before you ask any more questions. There's a lot of good information there.
Yes of course a bigger cat will be able to jump higher, that's just common sense. All the Savannahs are rather unpredictable at the moment. It's a new breed and the proper consistency you get within breeds hasn't been established yet. I mean it's getting better all the time and the breeders are working hard but it's still a new breed with a lot of variation between cats.
The Savannah jumping 7' on youtube is an F1 cat.
Also the thing about the early generation cats is that they grow up. See most domestic animals are neonatized. I.e they keep lots of baby qualities into their adulthoods. This means they're more playful, adaptable to change, more trainable and usually cuddlier than they would be otherwise.
Wild animals are a lot more focused on survival than most domestic animals and when you breed a wild animal to a domestic one you loose out on some of the "eternal kitten" qualities. So those cats tend to change a lot more when they grow up than the type of cat you're used to.
Having a domestic cat that was born in the wild is not the same thing because genetically it's still a domestic cat.
Yes of course a bigger cat will be able to jump higher, that's just common sense. All the Savannahs are rather unpredictable at the moment. It's a new breed and the proper consistency you get within breeds hasn't been established yet. I mean it's getting better all the time and the breeders are working hard but it's still a new breed with a lot of variation between cats.
The Savannah jumping 7' on youtube is an F1 cat.
Also the thing about the early generation cats is that they grow up. See most domestic animals are neonatized. I.e they keep lots of baby qualities into their adulthoods. This means they're more playful, adaptable to change, more trainable and usually cuddlier than they would be otherwise.
Wild animals are a lot more focused on survival than most domestic animals and when you breed a wild animal to a domestic one you loose out on some of the "eternal kitten" qualities. So those cats tend to change a lot more when they grow up than the type of cat you're used to.
Having a domestic cat that was born in the wild is not the same thing because genetically it's still a domestic cat.
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #40
Alright, thanks for the information.
I know a bigger cat will jump higher.
I meant based on the size of the cat.
If a F1 cat can jump 5 times it's
height, can a later generation cat still
jump 5 times it's height? Or does the
genetics matter in that way?
Sorry, I'm not sure how to word it.
*Edit*
One more question and I promise I'll leave you alone.
Will the age effect how I can train them?
Does it get harder as they get older?
I know a bigger cat will jump higher.
I meant based on the size of the cat.
If a F1 cat can jump 5 times it's
height, can a later generation cat still
jump 5 times it's height? Or does the
genetics matter in that way?
Sorry, I'm not sure how to word it.
*Edit*
One more question and I promise I'll leave you alone.
Will the age effect how I can train them?
Does it get harder as they get older?
