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War On Christmas - Page 9

post #241 of 286
Well... here's my short two cents worth. Everything else has already been said. I am a Christian, and honestly, why can't we just keep things the way they always have been? I won't get offended if stores start carrying Kwanzaa or Hannukah decorations. Christmas is a big celebration for Christians. Hannukah is a big celebration for Jews. Kwanzaa is a big celebration for whoever it is that celebrates Kwanzaa. My mind spins so much when I think about all of these people who are like '"Merry Christmas" offends me'. That is the biggest bullcrap I've ever heard! People are letting two words offend them? Two words that are so obviously harmless it's unbelievable. Merry Christmas offends you? Then go back to whatever country you came from because America was founded on religious freedom!
post #242 of 286
Incidentally...

The 'family trees' bit that started this was a typo http://www.snopes.com/politics/christmas/familytree.asp
post #243 of 286
I see it is ok for Lowes to offend Christians, guess I won't shop there The thing is this. I never recall there being a problem with Christmas in the past and why should it change now? No one was ever offended then, why now? December 25th is CHRISTMAS It is NOT family day nor is it holiday day. It is Christmas. From what I recall, people who celebrate Chanukah do not put up a tree (someone correct me please if I am wrong) and same goes for Kwanzaa. I can remember when I was a kid, we would decorate our house with our Christmas tree of course, but we even had a Menorah display in our window as well, along with our other Christmas lights. Sometimes, I am just so sick of people and wish I could find an island to live with my big cats and no other humans. I wouldn't have to worry about all the stupidity that people cause. No wonder I am really begining to dislike the season. Retailers are greedy and all they care about is making money, but God forbid you say Christmas!! I don't give a darn if the retail business makes money or not. That's not what it is all about. I remember when doing something for someone meant a lot, maybe even more so than getting a big pricey gift. I used to sing in a choir, along with my whole family. One of my best memories of Christmas, was when we used to go and sing on every floor of our local hospital on Christmas eve. I think there were 12 floors or so. The looks on the faces of the people, meant more than any material gift. No one ever said to us, please leave, I don't celebrate Christmas. Whether they celebrated or not, did not matter. They were happy that someone cared enough to come in and sing for them. I can still remember one elderly woman who was in intensive care. We sang quietly to her. Next thing we know, she started crying. We found out a couple days later why this woman was crying. She cried, because she heard us singing to her. She said, in her own words, she thought she had died and went to heaven and we were the angels singing to her, but she woke up and realized she was still there in the hospital. Now for me, that is what Christmas is all about.
post #244 of 286
Quote:
Originally Posted by greenvillegal View Post
Well... here's my short two cents worth. Everything else has already been said. I am a Christian, and honestly, why can't we just keep things the way they always have been? I won't get offended if stores start carrying Kwanzaa or Hannukah decorations. Christmas is a big celebration for Christians. Hannukah is a big celebration for Jews. Kwanzaa is a big celebration for whoever it is that celebrates Kwanzaa. My mind spins so much when I think about all of these people who are like '"Merry Christmas" offends me'. That is the biggest bullcrap I've ever heard! People are letting two words offend them? Two words that are so obviously harmless it's unbelievable. Merry Christmas offends you? Then go back to whatever country you came from because America was founded on religious freedom!
I agree. But you forgot to address this part;

"My mind spins so much when I think about all of these people who are like '"Happy Holidays" offends me'. That is the biggest bullcrap I've ever heard! People are letting two words offend them? Two words that are so obviously harmless it's unbelievable. Happy Holidays offends you? Then go back to whatever country you came from because America was founded on religious freedom!"
post #245 of 286
Quote:
Originally Posted by AmberThe Bobcat View Post
I see it is ok for Lowes to offend Christians, guess I won't shop there The thing is this. I never recall there being a problem with Christmas in the past and why should it change now? No one was ever offended then, why now? December 25th is CHRISTMAS It is NOT family day nor is it holiday day. It is Christmas. From what I recall, people who celebrate Chanukah do not put up a tree (someone correct me please if I am wrong) and same goes for Kwanzaa. I can remember when I was a kid, we would decorate our house with our Christmas tree of course, but we even had a Menorah display in our window as well, along with our other Christmas lights. Sometimes, I am just so sick of people and wish I could find an island to live with my big cats and no other humans. I wouldn't have to worry about all the stupidity that people cause. No wonder I am really begining to dislike the season. Retailers are greedy and all they care about is making money, but God forbid you say Christmas!! I don't give a darn if the retail business makes money or not. That's not what it is all about. I remember when doing something for someone meant a lot, maybe even more so than getting a big pricey gift. I used to sing in a choir, along with my whole family. One of my best memories of Christmas, was when we used to go and sing on every floor of our local hospital on Christmas eve. I think there were 12 floors or so. The looks on the faces of the people, meant more than any material gift. No one ever said to us, please leave, I don't celebrate Christmas. Whether they celebrated or not, did not matter. They were happy that someone cared enough to come in and sing for them. I can still remember one elderly woman who was in intensive care. We sang quietly to her. Next thing we know, she started crying. We found out a couple days later why this woman was crying. She cried, because she heard us singing to her. She said, in her own words, she thought she had died and went to heaven and we were the angels singing to her, but she woke up and realized she was still there in the hospital. Now for me, that is what Christmas is all about.
and

THANK YOU. When I was a child, I remember Christmas being a lovely time, too. Sure, because of presents and family (we were not brought up in a religious family) but still a lovely, relaxed, happy time of year. Perhaps that is because I was a child and didn't have to go and do all the shopping and everything else entailed in `celebrating' Christmas, but perhaps not. Things, I think, were just different then.

The way Christmas is exploited now just sickens me - and like you say, has just turned me off it completely. Nothing to do with its religious significance, and everything to do with its commercial one.

Near the large shopping centre where I grew up, there is a small church - it is opposite the shopping centre, in actual fact. Now, every Christmas and Easter they put up a sign outside their church. It always says something profound and also quite funny - I love seeing what they put up each time there is a religious holiday such as Easter or Christmas.

This year they haven't tried to be funny. It just says `Jesus Is The Reason For The Season'. You can't leave the shops on that side without seeing it. And good on them I say - I guess they're sick of all the exploitation too, and feel that people need a reminder.

The shopping centre I'm talking about has an annual turnover of around 9 billion dollars. It is owned by Arabs. Now you tell me - what does Christmas mean to them? Lots of dollars, that's what it means. And that makes me sick. We went there last weekend (my parents live one street away) and we couldn't even park on my parents' front lawn because of all the cars up their street because of Christmas shopping. Nobody was there for church, this was the last week of November and the streets were packed full of people buying gifts - probably stressed out of their brains, too, because of all the crowding and pressure. It's just horrible.

I have never had an issue with Christmas or what it stands for. My suggestion that it be kept out of shopping centres and everything else was out of respect for its real meaning, not out of a wish for it to be hidden so I wouldn't have to see it. If you don't wish to participate in the hypocrisy of celebrating Christmas if you are not a Christian, you are given no choice because of how commercial it has become. If I were Christian I actually would find that offensve. I certainly find it offensive as a non-Christian.

It's not about hiding Christmas or making it private, it's about bringing it back to what it should stand for. Which is NOT gifts and money and spending and dollars and profit.

The ONLY problem I have with Christmas these days is the increasing exploitation of it. I think it's sad, and I think that it should stop so that people start remembering what it's supposed to be about.
post #246 of 286
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zissou'sMom View Post
Incidentally...

The 'family trees' bit that started this was a typo http://www.snopes.com/politics/christmas/familytree.asp
Walmart is catching on! Have you looked at their displays laterly

They don't say christmas trees, OR holiday trees...or even family trees for that matter.

They are called "Douglas fir", "Georgia Pine", "Deodar Spruce"....
post #247 of 286
Quote:
Originally Posted by KitEKats4Eva! View Post
and
The ONLY problem I have with Christmas these days is the increasing exploitation of it. I think it's sad, and I think that it should stop so that people start remembering what it's supposed to be about.
Sarah, I liked your post too and agree, it is sad. I used to really enjoy the season, but for some reason, it just isn't the same. I know I shouldn't let all the commercialism spoil it, but it is hard not to. Everytime you turn on the TV or listen to the radio, you hear someone talking about giving or getting the perfect gift, like a large screen plasma tv or new car. Oh yeah, like I am going to spend thousands of my hard earned money, to make some retailer happy, when no one gives a damn what the real meaning of Christmas is. Heck, I used to just enjoy the feeling of being with family members you haven't seen in a long time and all the good food and Christmas cookies and the great smells in the house. Yes, I enjoyed getting gifts too, I won't deny that, but there was always more to it than that for me.
post #248 of 286
Our household was never very religious to be honest. My grandparents seemed to be the last generation of really devout christians; but we did celebrate Christmas, and still do, but only as a family gathering really. We do gifts, but it's by drawing names and very subdued. But I do remember when I was little, that christmas was a magical time, I mean really; a sense of magic was in the very air. But there isn't any magic anymore. Like several people say, it's "buy, buy, buy...you know that dad would love this $3800 home theater system...". According to the TV ads, Santa Claus shops at Home Depot and Best Buy, and any child old enough to read that tries to look up Santa on the internet will find a Wikipedia article that starts with this sentence:

Santa Claus, also known as Saint Nicholas, Father Christmas, Kris Kringle, or simply "Santa" is a historical, legendary and mythological character

Maybe thats the whole problem. Technology and consumerism has taken away all the magic
post #249 of 286
When I was a kid Mum used to do sooooo many great things that made Christmas magical - and you're right, there is no magic to it anymore. Maybe that's the curse of getting older, but I think that advertising and commericalism has cheapened it so much.

I used to wake up every Christmas morning and rush outside to look at the bowl of water we'd left out for the reindeer - it was always pink. Mum told us that was because of Rudolph's nose - and we used to get goosebumps! Actually, she'd just put red food colouring in it, but it was still magical. And the milk and cookies we'd left out for Father Christmas were always gone - with the plate and glass washed up neatly and put back in the cupboard upside down. Lots of little things that made it special. Now it's just about who can get the latest Nintendo. Such a shame.
post #250 of 286
I can remember watching the news on Christmas Eve because the weather man would always show Santa and his reindeer on radar.
post #251 of 286
I haven't read all the posts, so this may already have been said. In Aust. some pre-schools/primary schools don't have carol singing because it might offend non-christians. We have a huge Arabic speaking community in my area. During Ramadan each year my boys primary school celebrated. Were we Christians offended by this, but it was still celebrated. I didn't know what it was the 1st few years. I thought it was wrong when we were penalised by not being able to have what we'd celebrated from the beginnings of Aust settlement.
I don't think we should be told not to offend, when I find it offensive to not have my beliefs celebrated.
Political correctness has a lot answered for. Last year it was decided to not call school children boys & girls as it would offend them. What are they to be know as, its?
Bring back the old days, when I was growing up, when there was no such thing. Bring back the innocence of young children. Let them play with toys & stop making them grow up too quickly. I believed in Santa Claus a lot longer than kids do today, & my mother even longer.
post #252 of 286
Good post. I just don't see why we can't celebrate and include EVERYONE's beliefs - including those who don't subscribe to any religion. I don't think one particular way of life or thought or belief should be dominant over any other. I think that was how political correctness was meant to be in the beginning (sort of like Communism is a good idea in theory) but it hasn't turned out that way.

A bit more tolerance from everyone wouldn't go astray - no matter what you believe.
post #253 of 286
Quote:
Originally Posted by KitEKats4Eva! View Post
I used to wake up every Christmas morning and rush outside to look at the bowl of water we'd left out for the reindeer - it was always pink. Mum told us that was because of Rudolph's nose - and we used to get goosebumps! Actually, she'd just put red food colouring in it, but it was still magical. And the milk and cookies we'd left out for Father Christmas were always gone - with the plate and glass washed up neatly and put back in the cupboard upside down. Lots of little things that made it special. Now it's just about who can get the latest Nintendo. Such a shame.
We used to leave cookies and milk for Santa Clause. We would always find them gone, with some crumbs left on the table and a little note saying thank you from Santa. My mom and dad would take a sled and pull it through the snow in the front yard, as well as make little hoof prints, to make it look like reindeer. Yes, it was magical when we were kids. I wish I could bring some of that magic back, but I don't have any human kids to share it with. I don't think my fur kids believe in Santa
post #254 of 286
I made my 1st post in this discussion on Thurs 6th at 12.18 pm. In the 5 pm news tonite a Syney preschool has banned Santa from coming to visit the kids at their Christmas party (its to be called end of year party). The director of the preschool said he didn't want the non-believer children offended by having Santa attend the party. What a lot of nonsence. What about the Christian children missing out on something they believe in. A lot of the parents are up in arms & intend to dress in Santa suits & picket the school. One mother said, "What am I going to tell my daughter, who has been looking forward to the party & Santa."
Like Greenvillegal said, if they don't like our way of life, they should have stayed in their own country, or words to that effect.
post #255 of 286
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kalikat View Post
I made my 1st post in this discussion on Thurs 6th at 12.18 pm. In the 5 pm news tonite a Syney preschool has banned Santa from coming to visit the kids at their Christmas party (its to be called end of year party). The director of the preschool said he didn't want the non-believer children offended by having Santa attend the party. What a lot of nonsence. What about the Christian children missing out on something they believe in. A lot of the parents are up in arms & intend to dress in Santa suits & boycot the school. One mother said, "What am I going to tell my daughter, who has been looking forward to the party & Santa."
Like Greenvillegal said, if they don't like our way of life, they should have stayed in their own country, or words to that effect.
Why don't they just say they killed Santa?
post #256 of 286
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kalikat View Post
I made my 1st post in this discussion on Thurs 6th at 12.18 pm. In the 5 pm news tonite a Syney preschool has banned Santa from coming to visit the kids at their Christmas party (its to be called end of year party). The director of the preschool said he didn't want the non-believer children offended by having Santa attend the party. What a lot of nonsence. What about the Christian children missing out on something they believe in. A lot of the parents are up in arms & intend to dress in Santa suits & picket the school. One mother said, "What am I going to tell my daughter, who has been looking forward to the party & Santa."
Like Greenvillegal said, if they don't like our way of life, they should have stayed in their own country, or words to that effect.
And people say there is no war on Christmas. This is a text book example.
post #257 of 286
People who say there is no war on Christmas are deaf, blind, and mute. They might as well kill Santa! GEEZ! So sad.
post #258 of 286
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kalikat View Post
I made my 1st post in this discussion on Thurs 6th at 12.18 pm. In the 5 pm news tonite a Syney preschool has banned Santa from coming to visit the kids at their Christmas party (its to be called end of year party). The director of the preschool said he didn't want the non-believer children offended by having Santa attend the party. What a lot of nonsence. What about the Christian children missing out on something they believe in. A lot of the parents are up in arms & intend to dress in Santa suits & picket the school. One mother said, "What am I going to tell my daughter, who has been looking forward to the party & Santa."
Like Greenvillegal said, if they don't like our way of life, they should have stayed in their own country, or words to that effect.
I don't know hardly anything about Sydney. Is this a public preschool, private, government subsidized private?? This could be just as much pandering for enrollment as anything else.
post #259 of 286
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kalikat View Post
I made my 1st post in this discussion on Thurs 6th at 12.18 pm. In the 5 pm news tonite a Syney preschool has banned Santa from coming to visit the kids at their Christmas party (its to be called end of year party). The director of the preschool said he didn't want the non-believer children offended by having Santa attend the party. What a lot of nonsence. What about the Christian children missing out on something they believe in. A lot of the parents are up in arms & intend to dress in Santa suits & picket the school. One mother said, "What am I going to tell my daughter, who has been looking forward to the party & Santa."
Like Greenvillegal said, if they don't like our way of life, they should have stayed in their own country, or words to that effect.
If this school did not acknowledge Ramadan, they pretty much can't acknowledge Christmas. At least by the rules we have here.`
post #260 of 286
Finally, an entire society, with a cadre of religious leaders, banding together to display some common sense.

In the UK, leaders of numerous faiths have banded together, recognizing that christians celebrate the birth of christ, AND that other faiths celebrate it as a winter festival, secular holiday, or just rocking good party

The rest of the world has some catching up to do

Hands off christmas
post #261 of 286
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skippymjp View Post
Finally, an entire society, with a cadre of religious leaders, banding together to display some common sense.

In the UK, leaders of numerous faiths have banded together, recognizing that christians celebrate the birth of christ, AND that other faiths celebrate it as a winter festival, secular holiday, or just rocking good party

The rest of the world has some catching up to do

Hands off christmas
Reason can prevail - what a relief!
post #262 of 286
Quote:
Originally Posted by ckblv View Post
And people say there is no war on Christmas. This is a text book example.
No, a `war' is this: Armed fighting between two or more countries or groups

This kind of rhetoric is absurd, and just plain embarrassing.

I LOVE the `banding together' of the religious leaders. It's about time!
post #263 of 286
Read this for another view on the War on Christmas. I love it that the Brits are leading the way. There's no reason we should have any fight over this. But how many of the combatants are willing to retract their claws?



http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...120901357.html
post #264 of 286
Quote:
Originally Posted by katie=^..^= View Post
Read this for another view on the War on Christmas. I love it that the Brits are leading the way. There's no reason we should have any fight over this. But how many of the combatants are willing to retract their claws?



http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...120901357.html
That article says it all.
post #265 of 286
God Bless Bill O'Reilly. I just love that man.
post #266 of 286
Quote:
Originally Posted by ckblv View Post
God Bless Bill O'Reilly. I just love that man.
Did you read past the first paragraph?
post #267 of 286
Why yes, I sure did kiddo, why do you ask?
post #268 of 286
Quote:
Originally Posted by ckblv View Post
Why yes, I sure did kiddo, why do you ask?
Don't call me kiddo, please.

I ask because it completely disproves everything he said, as well as your thesis that there is a war on Christmas. I just found it odd that your only reaction was to laud Papa Bear.
post #269 of 286
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zissou'sMom View Post
Don't call me kiddo, please.
That is truly supremely patronising, isn't it? I had to win a battle with my Mum because she used to call me that all the time. Of course, she didn't mean to be patronising but still - no intelligent adult with valid, considered opinions wants to be referred to that way.

And how funny! That article really does negate (quite easily and convincingly, too) the pathetic `War on Christmas' idea - but that's ok. It still doesn't hurt to cry `YAY FOR BILL!' just for good measure
post #270 of 286
Good grief, now "kiddo" is offensive? How absurd IMO. I apologize Heidi, I call people that all the time, no insult intended.

I really think people are to thin skinned sometimes, but hey you don't want to be called that, you got it.

I guess I must be un-intelligent and have un-valid opinions because it really does not bother me to be called kiddo. Just call me stupid I guess. I guess everyone is different but to call someone who DOESN'T mind being called kiddo, unintelligent is pretty mean I think.
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