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Gays Deserve Torture, Death Penalty - Page 2

post #31 of 52
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by lunasmom View Post
Just one more reason for the U.S. to hate Iran. Boy these news people sure get their propoganda on. Somedays I wish I were a journalist. I think I would become very entertained by people responding to a propoganda article I wrote

It's their country, not ours. We don't chose the laws or vote. Just be sure to tell your gay friends not to move there.

Not really, the Human rights groups of been yelling for years about issue.
But now its propganda? Its news cause a world leader said it.

lol i know a few people i would help move there.
post #32 of 52
What are those consequences, and who has the right to bring them?


The wages of sin is death (spirital - not physical). And who has the right? God does on Judgement Day.
post #33 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldenKitty45 View Post
What are those consequences, and who has the right to bring them?


The wages of sin is death (spirital - not physical). And who has the right? God does on Judgement Day.
Okay, so then people have nothing to do with it and this does not justify any secular laws whatsoever. On top of that, the United States is a secular government that is specifically prohibited from establishing laws based on anyone's religion or lack of religion.

I don't see the point you were trying to make in your previous post-- it seemed like you were defending Sharia law if only they wouldn't take it quite so far. Now you're admitting that governments on earth have no business in it one way or another.
post #34 of 52
If you don't have laws of some sort you would not know right from wrong, nor would you have any punishment.

You HAVE to have laws and they should be appropriate punishment for the consequences. While the ideas are right, the punishment (in Islam) is wrong. The point I was making is that on both sides they do agree that homosexual behavior is wrong. And I'm sure in other faiths its wrong too. Buddism, Jewish, etc.

Think of it this way. Would you let a child do whatever they wanted, when they wanted, how they wanted with NO consequences for any of their actions their entire life.........and just wait for God to pass judgement when he dies?

After all God did hand out rules to be followed AND the consequences of what would happen. He also punished those that didn't follow the rules. You can be a loving father who wants his children to be good, but also you have to mete out punishment for those who disobey!
post #35 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by theimp98 View Post
Not really, the Human rights groups of been yelling for years about issue.
But now its propganda? Its news cause a world leader said it.

lol i know a few people i would help move there.
Sure! We're always hearing bad stories about Iran or at least we have heard it for quite sometime. If the president (or the people down in DC) can have stories printed like this that produce critisism from the U.S. People, then they can feel confident that they can invade Iran (if necessary).

The Middle East does it to us, so why can't we do it to them?

What the news DOESN'T tell you in the story is: Do they put the gay person to death simply because they're gay or is there some other underlaying factor like having to be caught with another male (or female) in the act?

Cindy, there has always been in a movement to get the current establishment out. Hopefully this one can do far better, but in order to shift things, there will have to be force to go in and remove the regime. Not just some people with a bunch of protest signs.
post #36 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldenKitty45 View Post
If you don't have laws of some sort you would not know right from wrong, nor would you have any punishment.

You HAVE to have laws and they should be appropriate punishment for the consequences. While the ideas are right, the punishment (in Islam) is wrong. The point I was making is that on both sides they do agree that homosexual behavior is wrong. And I'm sure in other faiths its wrong too. Buddism, Jewish, etc.

Think of it this way. Would you let a child do whatever they wanted, when they wanted, how they wanted with NO consequences for any of their actions their entire life.........and just wait for God to pass judgement when he dies?

After all God did hand out rules to be followed AND the consequences of what would happen. He also punished those that didn't follow the rules. You can be a loving father who wants his children to be good, but also you have to mete out punishment for those who disobey!
For the record, I have very rarely heard any Buddhists speak against homosexuality. I don't think Buddha said anything against it either.
Either way, Buddhism does not advocate punishing or otherwise persecuting homosexuals.

But no one is arguing that there should not be any consequences for any of people's actions. What I would argue is that here on earth, we should enforce consequences for behaviors that are harmful to others. If I decide to beat you up, yes, I should be punished somehow. But if I decide to have sex with another woman, why should I be punished? Is that affecting you in any way? Or anyone else?
And what if I want to marry another woman... who does that hurt?
If homosexuality is offensive to God, let him do the punishing. The government is not there to enforce the word of God.
post #37 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by ckblv View Post
Our government doesn't kill gays. Big difference to me.

I don't think any explanation is necessary, I don't believe it is "singling" out anyone, marriage is between a man and a woman.
I can't marry my dog but I don't think it is singling out dogs.
I can't marry my brother but I don't think it is singling out siblings.
You choose to believe that marriage is between a man and a woman, but what about the people who believe that it can be between a man and a man or a woman and a woman. What makes your beliefs any more valid then theirs? The only difference is that your beliefs are the accepted norm, and protected by law.

Marriage in Canada (or civil union if you prefer) is for a man/woman, man/man or woman/woman. I am proud that my country has moved forward enough to recognize the rights of all men and woment to express there love and committ to each other how they choose. The government can't force religious institutions to perform marriage ceremonies, but the religious institutions can't force the government to change back the law.
post #38 of 52
Each one to their own i say. As long as their not hurting anyone else
post #39 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldenKitty45 View Post

I would not go so far to kill gays, but we need to let them know what God's word is and what the consequences are if you continue to engage in homosexual activity.
Hmmm, yeah, the CONSEQUENCES. Like being ostracized by people that you thought loved you. Like being discriminated against nearly everywhere you go by people who are afraid that you might rub off on them because being gay is, after all, extremely contagious. Like being treated like a second-class citizen for attemping to be true to yourself.

Yeah...I really don't think you NEED to be running around preaching to gay people. Trust me. They already know what the christian majority's opinion is.
post #40 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldenKitty45 View Post
I would not go so far to kill gays, but we need to let them know what God's word is and what the consequences are if you continue to engage in homosexual activity.
Don't know about you but my God is a loving and forgiving God. I think that he won't waste his wrath on people who love (as homosexuals love each other), but he will be disappointed in those of his children who hate and preach intolerance.
post #41 of 52
As someone who is bi-sexual I'll just make the following comments. The gay people living in Iran know the consequences if they are open about their sexuality. All this is really doing is taking gay people and putting them so far back in the closet that they can't see the light.

As for people in America treating me different. It happens. I've had people yell and scream at me telling me that I'm going to hell. I've had people walk up to me and say they were proud of me for being open. Yes, I am aware of the opinion of me by conservative Christians, and I've really just learned to live with it. It really seems more of their problem than mine most of the time.

As for discrimination? Well I fell in love and married a man. Not because he was a man, but I fell in love with something much deeper. If he would have been a women I'd still be on TCS having this conversation. Gender really didn't play a role in it.
post #42 of 52
Thread Starter 
lol last i looked Iran was a muslim nation, topic was not about US and christians and gays lol.however as i told a couple of people it would not take long before it turned into just these type of posts. It would seem that many are just as fast to jump on bash the christians and the US. Which is just as bad as christians who want to bash gays.
both sound just as closed minded to me.

"Iran, Mauritania, Saudi Arabia, Sudan, the United Arab Emirates, Yemen and Nigeria apply the death penalty for homosexuality, according to the International Lesbian and Gay Association."

I dont see united states of america listed among that group or canada.
post #43 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by theimp98 View Post
lol last i looked Iran was a muslim nation, topic was not about US and christians and gays lol.however as i told a couple of people it would not take long before it turned into just these type of posts. It would seem that many are just as fast to jump on bash the christians and the US. Which is just as bad as christians who want to bash gays.
both sound just as closed minded to me.

"Iran, Mauritania, Saudi Arabia, Sudan, the United Arab Emirates, Yemen and Nigeria apply the death penalty for homosexuality, according to the International Lesbian and Gay Association."

I dont see united states of america listed among that group or canada.

Bruce, I for one, am not bashing the US or Christians (I happen to be one).

I am saying that intolerance is intolerance. Laws to back intorlerance, no matter in what country, are wrong. An idealogical belief is just that, idealogic.

Above all else I believe in tolerance and respect for my fellow humans (and other creatures) that share this planet. For some reason, I can't see that God, or Allah, or Buddha, or whomever it is that a person worships can find fault with a person who uses tolerances as their basic belief.
post #44 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by adymarie View Post
You choose to believe that marriage is between a man and a woman, but what about the people who believe that it can be between a man and a man or a woman and a woman. What makes your beliefs any more valid then theirs? The only difference is that your beliefs are the accepted norm, and protected by law.

Marriage in Canada (or civil union if you prefer) is for a man/woman, man/man or woman/woman. I am proud that my country has moved forward enough to recognize the rights of all men and woment to express there love and committ to each other how they choose. The government can't force religious institutions to perform marriage ceremonies, but the religious institutions can't force the government to change back the law.
God made woman for man. That is in the book of Genesis and is what I believe.
post #45 of 52
Biologically males do not fit with males and females with females. The perfect biological union is a man and a woman.
post #46 of 52
I don't believe Gay people have a choice as whether or not to be Gay any more than heterosexual people have a choice. I think it's absolutely insane to torture or kill a person because of who they are inside. It would be like torturing everyone who liked the colour red, when you decided that the only acceptable colour was blue.

People to choose to be Gay. They're born Gay. It's very unfair to expect them to live a lie.
post #47 of 52
, please. The discussion was supposedly about Iran executing homosexuals, adulterists, rape victims, etc., as described in the article Bruce linked to.
post #48 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by jcat View Post
, please. The discussion was supposedly about Iran executing homosexuals, adulterists, rape victims, etc., as described in the article Bruce linked to.

Yes Ma'am.

IMO, the United Nations needs to step into Iran to make sure that basic human rights are being met. If they refuse or if they are found to be negligent, then increasing sanctions should be imposed.
post #49 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldenKitty45 View Post
If you don't have laws of some sort you would not know right from wrong, nor would you have any punishment.

You HAVE to have laws and they should be appropriate punishment for the consequences. While the ideas are right, the punishment (in Islam) is wrong. The point I was making is that on both sides they do agree that homosexual behavior is wrong. And I'm sure in other faiths its wrong too. Buddism, Jewish, etc.

Think of it this way. Would you let a child do whatever they wanted, when they wanted, how they wanted with NO consequences for any of their actions their entire life.........and just wait for God to pass judgement when he dies?

After all God did hand out rules to be followed AND the consequences of what would happen. He also punished those that didn't follow the rules. You can be a loving father who wants his children to be good, but also you have to mete out punishment for those who disobey!
You believe being gay is a crime. I can only be thankful that few agree with you, or our country might begin looking more and more similar to Iran.

A crime is something that hurts either the public or another person, directly or financially. Stealing, assault, murder, perjury, embezzlement, rape-- it is very easy to see who the victims are of a crime. A crime which results in the spiritual death of the person committing it... isn't a crime. That is not the case with our other laws, or with reprimanding children who are misbehaving, or any of your other faulty comparisons.

And that is exactly what they are doing in Iran. They are basing their laws directly on religious laws, defending themselves as doing what they're doing based on the word of a prophet.

Iran should serve as a warning of what happens when religious extremists take over a country. Innocent people are murdered by the state in the name of the God of those in power. My point in drawing a comparison was that I knew (almost) all of our reactions would be to recoil in horror and it would be all too easy to dismiss it when there are many in America and other supposedly more civilized countries who would just love to see the same thing happen here.

Also, as we are being shoved in the direction of WW3 by Cheney, which starts in Iran, I am unsurprised to see more and more reporting on the terrible things they do there. Hopefully people will realize what is actually happening. America has never gone to war just to save the voiceless, poor, underclasses of another country. It hasn't happened, and it isn't happening or else we would be in several countries in Africa and Asia and Eastern Europe and South America. There are far greater atrocities happening that we don't ever hear about.

Is it ridiculous to murder your own citizens because they're gay, or have been raped? Yes. Hopefully Iranians will revolt against their government again, though revolutions are not typically progressive as an end result. Ever. Unfortunately, there is nothing we can do, nor is there anything we should be doing. Any intervention on our part will only strengthen people's loyalty to their government by giving them an enemy to hate in unity. You would think we would have learned that by now.
post #50 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by theimp98 View Post
lol last i looked Iran was a muslim nation, topic was not about US and christians and gays lol.however as i told a couple of people it would not take long before it turned into just these type of posts. It would seem that many are just as fast to jump on bash the christians and the US. Which is just as bad as christians who want to bash gays.
both sound just as closed minded to me.

"Iran, Mauritania, Saudi Arabia, Sudan, the United Arab Emirates, Yemen and Nigeria apply the death penalty for homosexuality, according to the International Lesbian and Gay Association."

I dont see united states of america listed among that group or canada.
Haters hate. It's what they do. And haters are the same everywhere.
post #51 of 52
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zissou'sMom View Post
You believe being gay is a crime. I can only be thankful that few agree with you, or our country might begin looking more and more similar to Iran.

A crime is something that hurts either the public or another person, directly or financially. Stealing, assault, murder, perjury, embezzlement, rape-- it is very easy to see who the victims are of a crime. A crime which results in the spiritual death of the person committing it... isn't a crime. That is not the case with our other laws, or with reprimanding children who are misbehaving, or any of your other faulty comparisons.

And that is exactly what they are doing in Iran. They are basing their laws directly on religious laws, defending themselves as doing what they're doing based on the word of a prophet.

Iran should serve as a warning of what happens when religious extremists take over a country. Innocent people are murdered by the state in the name of the God of those in power. My point in drawing a comparison was that I knew (almost) all of our reactions would be to recoil in horror and it would be all too easy to dismiss it when there are many in America and other supposedly more civilized countries who would just love to see the same thing happen here.

Also, as we are being shoved in the direction of WW3 by Cheney, which starts in Iran, I am unsurprised to see more and more reporting on the terrible things they do there. Hopefully people will realize what is actually happening. America has never gone to war just to save the voiceless, poor, underclasses of another country. It hasn't happened, and it isn't happening or else we would be in several countries in Africa and Asia and Eastern Europe and South America. There are far greater atrocities happening that we don't ever hear about.

Is it ridiculous to murder your own citizens because they're gay, or have been raped? Yes. Hopefully Iranians will revolt against their government again, though revolutions are not typically progressive as an end result. Ever. Unfortunately, there is nothing we can do, nor is there anything we should be doing. Any intervention on our part will only strengthen people's loyalty to their government by giving them an enemy to hate in unity. You would think we would have learned that by now.

must need more sleep, or more coffee, Cause i agree with 90% of that post
post #52 of 52
Yes this is off the topic. The three religions that share a common heritage and the Bible are Judaism, Christianity and Islam.

Buddhism doesn't fit in. I've studied Buddhism for 40 years and never heard or read ANYTHING on the subject of homosexuality. It just doesn't register in the Sutras or any public lecture I've ever heard.

Also phrases like Allah, God, Jehovah, Buddha are incorrect. Buddha is not another word for God. The Buddha did not create the universe, the earth, life, or human beings. He was an ordinary human being who through his own efforts attained extraordinary Wisdom and Compassion. He is honored but not worshiped.
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