Need help with a selfish mistake

oldfarmcats · Nov 6, 2007

Earlier this year we had two female DSH cats. Both 13. One passed on due to CRF. It nearly killed me too. The living Cat (Angel) seemed to be lonely, however she was the top cat anyways.
Angel is afraid of everything, except for the cat that passed away. She had taught that cat that she was the queen.
We wanted to get her company so we went with a kitten... BIG mistake, but we love her too. The kitten, now has been with us since May and is 8 months old this month. She keeps running up on Angel and we think Angel is ready to have a nervous breakdown. Angel is becomming very shy. She will not eat at will, and is afraid to go to the litter box. That is because in the past the kitten kept jumping her. We did do the proper introductions, very slowly. Many times they do sit about 2 feet apart from each other with no problems. Angel use to sleep with us ever night, but now that the kitten comes in the bed, she choises to sleep elsewhere. Angel is constantly hissing and running away.
We do not want to keep the kitten in a seporate room as we did the first three months.. but we think we may have too. This is Angels house. We do not want to rehome Abby the kitten.. but if we are going to be unfair to both, she will have to go... or what are are alternatives.
Please give us some advise.... we are loosing our Angel and the loving way she use to be. She also will not watch TV with us anymore if the kitten is in the room. she hides. Please help.. make this work.

EnzoLeya · Nov 6, 2007

Oh my goodness! I don't know what to tell you, usually they eventually get a long! Hopefully someone else will have somem good advice for you, all I can think of is, does your cat like being by itself? Would it be happier to get a break from the kitten and just have a room to itself for awhile? I just don't know what to tell you.

hissy · Nov 6, 2007

Depending on where you got Abbey, if you can take Abbey back and switch her for an older, sedate cat. Kittens can wear on older cats pretty quickly. Angel is still in mourning for her friend and only has room for one new change at a time. It is either that or the kitten needs to live completely separately from Angel for quite awhile until after the spay and until she gets through the kitten kamikazee stage.

Take Angel to the vet quickly and have them run bloodwork. If she has stopped eating and hiding the stress of the kitten on her can make her sick quite rapidly.

ethereal · Nov 6, 2007

I think you should get rid of the kitten. Angel was there first, its not fair to her to put her through all of that, expecially since her little friend died. How can you like a kitten that terrorizes your main cat?

jenwales · Nov 6, 2007

I can't advocate getting rid of a cat because one doesn't like the other. We don't get rid of our children when they fight!

I had a solitary cat for 10 years, then adopted the second one who was about one at the time. The first cat lived another 5 years and never accepted cat #2. We kept them separated as much as we could and gave each of them as much love as possible.

ginava · Nov 6, 2007

I have a 6 year old cat Princess Gina who feels the same about the new kitten Kitto. She stays in her own special places and has made it clear to Kitto she isnt interested in playing. Occasionally they nap on the same bed. Kitto is only 5 months old and will settle down when he is grown. Maybe if you give your cat her own special area to eat, she will feel better, sometimes I put Kitto in a separate room when I feed Gina. I think if you give your older cat special attentin, eventually the kitten will settle down.

oldfarmcats · Nov 6, 2007

I hate to get rid of Abby... I would rather get rid of the wife

Let me ask this... if I put Abby in her own room when she attacks Angel, does she understand why I am doing that. Or water spraybottle? I know... I am almost talking out of both sides of my mouth... get rid of her, keep her, she is so cute when she wants to be. I wish I could give Angel a miniture stungun. Yes, Angel is probably missing Mittens who passed, as well as I do terribly.
Would it be cruel to put Abby back in her room at bedtime. That room had a fouton, food, water, toys, fur rug she loves to still nurse on, and litter box. Its like a suite.
As I am typing this... Angel tried to come into the TV room, and Abby chased her out. I put Abby up in her room.
Angel use to love to be brushed when we called for brushing..now she is too busy looking for the Abby attack. How long does this Kitten nutties last? If Angel was to live only until 16, it would really bother me that she spent her last two years running from the kitten. Angel is in good health now.. she recently was treated by Radiocat and she is much slower, more tired and growing some fur she was missing .. I know.. I am rambeling... but what is a parent too do....

kittkatt · Nov 6, 2007

Originally Posted by jenwales

I can't advocate getting rid of a cat because one doesn't like the other. We don't get rid of our children when they fight!

I'm having the same problems w/ two of my cats: Gabriel, who is the older cat, and Geronimo, who is the youngest. Geronimo is no longer a kitten (he's about 1 1/2) and is always terrorizing Gabriel. Geronimo's not quite as bad as he used to be and has mellowed out some, but poor Gabriel is afraid to go anywhere near him now, and always runs by Geronimo any time he sees him. Gabriel has pretty much taken up residence in the bedroom, so I set up a litterbox and put out some food & water for him to get to in case he can't get past Geronimo when I'm not around to "babysit" the two of them. At least that way, he has his own food, water, and litterbox..

The only thing that seems to have an effect on Geronimo's bullying of Gabriel is spraying him w/ the water pistol: I hate doing it, but he has to learn that he's not the boss of the household. He generally doesn't bully the other cats too much, but that's b/c they'll fight back - Gabriel won't. If Gabriel would fight back just once, I think that Geronimo would leave him alone..

I would suggest trying the water pistol method. I know a lot of people don't agree w/ that method, but I don't see any harm in it as long as you're careful and don't spray the water in their eyes, ears, or nose. Or maybe you could try shutting the kitten in a room after she attacks the older cat, until she gets the point that she's not supposed to do it.

I wish I had a solution to your dilemma.

Good luck!

~KK~

missymotus · Nov 7, 2007

What about adopting another young kitten for Abby to play with?

urbantigers · Nov 7, 2007

Originally Posted by jenwales

I can't advocate getting rid of a cat because one doesn't like the other. We don't get rid of our children when they fight!

I can't agree with that. I don't advocate giving up straight away, and if there's a way that cats that don't get along can be kept separate then that's an ideal solution. Cats aren't like people - we can't explain to them that the newcomer isn't a threat and that we'd like them to get along - and I think we have a duty to our existing cats not to submit them to years of stress just because we aren't willing to accept that things aren't working out. Sometimes rehoming a cat is the best thing for other cats in a household. When I got Mosi, I was prepared to return him to the breeder if Jaffa wouldn't accept him. It would have been difficult but I owe it to Jaffa to make sure he's happy and stress free. He was here first and I couldn't do anything to make him unhappy. He doesn't deserve that.

epona · Nov 7, 2007

Originally Posted by urbantigers

I can't agree with that. I don't advocate giving up straight away, and if there's a way that cats that don't get along can be kept separate then that's an ideal solution. Cats aren't like people - we can't explain to them that the newcomer isn't a threat and that we'd like them to get along - and I think we have a duty to our existing cats not to submit them to years of stress just because we aren't willing to accept that things aren't working out. Sometimes rehoming a cat is the best thing for other cats in a household. When I got Mosi, I was prepared to return him to the breeder if Jaffa wouldn't accept him. It would have been difficult but I owe it to Jaffa to make sure he's happy and stress free. He was here first and I couldn't do anything to make him unhappy. He doesn't deserve that.

Well said! It's never guaranteed that an existing cat will get on with a newcomer, and it's unfair to put them through misery if they don't get along. The resident cat should always be treated with priority, as they were part of the family first - what sickens me is when people get a new kitten, the existing cat doesn't thrive, and the older family member goes in favour of the new bundle of fluff.

To the OP - it sounds as if you care deeply about both cats and have their welfare foremost in your heart. I would try a Feliway plug-in before giving up on the situation, in case you don't know about it, it releases 'happy cat' pheremones into the air and can really help to calm situations like this, as both cats feel more relaxed. Give that a try for a month and see if it helps at all. Bach's flower remedies can also be used with cats, either a couple of drops in their drinking water or a drop rubbed on the ear, some people have had some success using this with nervous cats, you can probably get them in health food shops or from a holistic vet.

werebear · Nov 7, 2007

IF, and only if, the two kittens are the same type.

I've written about this on my blog, because it is absolutely key to cat compatibility:

http://wayofcats.blogspot.com/search/label/types

Getting a new BOY kitten will balance the house and give Abby someone to focus her cat attention on. A gamma kitten wouldn't care so much, so Abby must be either an Alpha or a Beta.

This isn't dog hierarchy... it's personality types. Two cats must be able to share an outlook if they will be cat companions.

Abby can't help asking for friendship from Angel, and Angel doesn't have it to give. They won't change their personalities, but this energy can be redirected.

Having a kitten for Abby gives her someone to play with and be friends with. And you won't have any qualms about locking the kittens in their room to play while "the grownups" and Angel enjoy their quiet time with the TV.

Train the kittens to regard Angel as something "off limits" just as a vase would be. Then Angel can have her "space" which is something she doesn't have now. Let her take the "older statesman" role and tell her she is the most important cat in the house, and sympathize with the troubles you both have with the "darn kittens."

Let Angel have a high shelf, times in a separate room, or other tricks to give her the places she needs. Warn the kittens away from her, just like you do the stereo.

The two kittens, provided they are the same type, will form a unit that can tolerate Angel's aloofness the way a single kitten, of any type, simply cannot.

People laugh when I say, "The solution to this cat problem is... more cats!" But in this case, it is probably the only solution.

oldfarmcats · Nov 7, 2007

We have given serious thought to another kitten. What is the chance of the two kittens ganging up on Angel? We do love both of the cats... Angel and Abby.. I feel we made a commitment when we adopted her, and to just rehome her is really the last last straw.
We do give Abby a time out in her room when she becomes too much for Angel, but, I really do not think they learn like humans. We appreciate all of the input.. I guess its not an exact science. If we did however get another kitten and it did not work out..... we would be forced to rehome the last in, unless of course the new kitten gets along with Angel more than
Abby,,, then what.... we love Abby... what do we say.... you loose..your out? Yes.. I have a heart.,, just it is being torn.

werebear · Nov 7, 2007

It's understandable to worry about simply adding another burden to Angel, but two kittens will distract each other if they form a bond. It's much easier to distract two kittens than one.

Right now Abby cannot stop making overtures to Angel, who once was able to handle a kitten, probably one of a different temperament. But Angel is older now, and even less likely to be able to exert herself to discipline.

This is where you come in. Each kitten will have another one to come to, and can stop harassing Angel, who right now suffers from the default of being the only other cat. Find a boy kitten who reminds you of Abby; same activity level, same outlook, similar interests. This way they will click together like two magnets, and you can concentrate on giving Angel what she needs.

Create a place for Angel to retreat to which the kittens will not be allowed. It can be a high shelf, a certain chair, whatever works for Angel. Then you can warn the kittens away from Angel's zone, and she will quickly learn she is safe there.

Use the same methods you would use to keep kittens away from any restricted area, such as removing them bodily, warning them off with your voice, and replacing Angel if such moves makes her leave.

That's why I suggested you look for a good match for Abby. At this point, there is no good match for Angel. She is happiest left alone. Another kitten will let Abby have an outlet for the social interaction she obviously needs.

zane's pal · Nov 8, 2007

Originally Posted by urbantigers

I can't agree with that. I don't advocate giving up straight away, and if there's a way that cats that don't get along can be kept separate then that's an ideal solution.

After all, sometimes if siblings--especially stepsiblings--can't get along, one or more will be sent to live with other relatives or to boarding school. It isn't something parents will do lightly or at the first sign of trouble, but it is an option if all else fails.

kittkatt · Nov 8, 2007

Originally Posted by Zane's Pal

After all, sometimes if siblings--especially stepsiblings--can't get along, one or more will be sent to live with other relatives or to boarding school. It isn't something parents will do lightly or at the first sign of trouble, but it is an option if all else fails.

That's ridiculous!

What kind of parent gets rid of one of their children simply b/c they don't get along?! I suppose you also think that us Meowmies who have FIP cats or some other feline disease should have them put to sleep, instead of giving them meds to help keep them healthy and give them a good quality of life if at all possible....

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

OFC, I think getting another kitten would be a good idea for the other youngster: I don't know why I didn't think of that before.

That's what I did on two separate occasions. When I first got Winchester as a kitten, he would pester the two older cats b/c he was still just a "baby", and wanted to play: So I solved the problem by getting Geronimo for him to play with. Then after Winchester got neutered, HE was more laid back and less rambunctious, so I got another kitten for Geronimo to play with b/c Winchester didn't want to play as much anymore. It made somewhat of a difference that Geronimo had another buddy in the same age range, although it didn't correct the problem a hundred percent: Geronimo's just one of those kind of cats who has more "spirit" than most cats do.

But I know that he'llsettle down also once he gets neutered, too.

Just my opinion.

~KK~

Need help with a selfish mistake

oldfarmcats

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EnzoLeya

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hissy

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ethereal

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jenwales

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ginava

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oldfarmcats

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kittkatt

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missymotus

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urbantigers

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epona

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werebear

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oldfarmcats

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werebear

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zane's pal

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kittkatt

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