Junior is leaning towards overweight

mezlo · Oct 27, 2007

The vet stopped by this morning for a checkup on Junior and said Junior is starting to get a little pooch so is time to start watching his weight. I usually give Junior about 7/8 cup of EVO cat and kitten food and a Wellness 3oz pouch twice a day. The vet recommended I either drop the wet food completely or reduce the dry food by quite a bit (he didn't specify an exact amount).

What are you thoughts on this? Should I drop the wet food or reduce the dry or do both? The vet didn't weigh Junior but thinks he is probably in the 11-12 pound range. I forgot to ask what weight Junior should be at for his age (8 months).

Mez

sharky · Oct 27, 2007

I would say cut back a little dry and add one more pouch .....

ON AVE a fully grown cat is 10-12 lb.... Jr likely is a bigger than ave kitty....

I havent checked but you might be over feeding the dry ....

mezlo · Oct 27, 2007

Originally Posted by sharky

I havent checked but you might be over feeding the dry ....

Here is what the bag says:

10 lbs: 7-9 mos = 7/8 cup, adult = 5/8 cup
12 lbs: 7-9 mos = 1 1/8 cup, adult = 3/4 cup

The vet said that is based on the dry food being the only food given and doesn't take into account the wet. So if I keep giving him the Wellness pouches, then I need to figure out how much to cut back the dry.

Thanks for your input,
Mez

sharky · Oct 27, 2007

okay lets use a 1 cup ... that is 8 oz( really about 5 but I am trying to be easy

)

1 cup + 2 (3oz) pouches = 14 ounces

so to keep at the 8 drop the food by 1/2 cup

kluchetta · Oct 27, 2007

You've gotten great advice here...wet food is better for their kidneys than dry, IMO, so get lighter on the dry food...

mezlo · Oct 28, 2007

Thanks for the advice. The vet really pushed towards dropping the wet food and feeding dry only. His reason was that the potential for weight gain on the wet food was greater than the potential for a UTI on the dry food. It was also based on the fact that even with the wet food Junior drinks about half a bowl of water per day so his water intake is sufficient to ward off a UTI.

This morning I tried not feeding Junior a pouch but he was meowing nonstop and following me from room to room until I finally gave him 1/2 a pouch. I fed the other 1/2 tonight. I'll try to follow this regimen for awhile and see how it goes.

Mez

aquarius · Oct 28, 2007

Hey Mezlo... a cat that is 11 pounds should be eating about 286 kcals per day to maintain.

EVO dry has about 612 kcals per cup. Wellness doesn't list their kcals on their website, but maybe they could send you the stats if you request it. Then we could figure out how much of each you could feed.

If you were to switch over to the EVO canned, it has 36kcals/ounce... so a 5.5 ounce can would have 198 kcals... so you could feed him about 1.5 cans per day (3/4 can twice daily).

I wouldn't drop the pouch food if I were you. If anything, I would drop the dry... or maybe you could feed the Evo canned...

As far as how much he SHOULD weigh... that really depends on his body type. cat can be overweight at 10 pounds, or underweight at 15! Veterinarians are relying these days on body conditioning scores... 1 is underwight, 3 is ideal weight, and 5 is obese... this website shows a bit how it is judged... http://www.feednfarm.com/catbodyscoring.html

Also... don't underestimate the value of exercise! Do you play with him? Laser toys are awesome for this... as are my kitty's new favorite toy, the panic mouse

Did your vet say anything about an "ideal weight"? or does he think he's at a healthy weight now, and just not want him to weigh any more? If he tells you he needs to lose weight, let me know, and I can work up the exact number of calories he should be eating for weight loss (rather than maintenance).

cloud_shade · Oct 28, 2007

My experience has been that dry food is much more likely to cause a cat to gain than canned food. Canned is less calorie dense but because of the water, it tends to help them feel more full. You might ask the vet whether adding L-carnitine might be helpful. It has shown some results in helping cats lose weight.

mezlo · Oct 28, 2007

Originally Posted by Aquarius

Hey Mezlo... a cat that is 11 pounds should be eating about 286 kcals per day to maintain.

EVO dry has about 612 kcals per cup. Wellness doesn't list their kcals on their website, but maybe they could send you the stats if you request it. Then we could figure out how much of each you could feed.

If you were to switch over to the EVO canned, it has 36kcals/ounce... so a 5.5 ounce can would have 198 kcals... so you could feed him about 1.5 cans per day (3/4 can twice daily).

I wouldn't drop the pouch food if I were you. If anything, I would drop the dry... or maybe you could feed the Evo canned...

As far as how much he SHOULD weigh... that really depends on his body type. cat can be overweight at 10 pounds, or underweight at 15! Veterinarians are relying these days on body conditioning scores... 1 is underwight, 3 is ideal weight, and 5 is obese... this website shows a bit how it is judged... http://www.feednfarm.com/catbodyscoring.html

Also... don't underestimate the value of exercise! Do you play with him? Laser toys are awesome for this... as are my kitty's new favorite toy, the panic mouse

Did your vet say anything about an "ideal weight"? or does he think he's at a healthy weight now, and just not want him to weigh any more? If he tells you he needs to lose weight, let me know, and I can work up the exact number of calories he should be eating for weight loss (rather than maintenance).

Thanks for the great information (and the time you spent gathering it)!

That is the chart the vet based his opinion on. Junior is between 5 and 6 right now (closer to 6 than 5 though). The vet did not list an ideal weight, just body condition, so I think he was aiming more towards weight maintenance rather than loss at this time.

As for the EVO canned, I put out about 1/3 of a 5.5oz can and Junior ate about 3/4 of that. When I put the rest of the can out that evening, Junior only ate a few bites before switching to the dry. He ignored the canned food the rest of the evening. I filled out Wellness' contact form so hopefully they will give me the kcal information for the pouches. Their website says 2 pouches per 5 lbs per day. Based on your calculations, that'd be about 20 kcals per oz. Whether that's accurate or not, there's no way I'm going to give Junior 4 pouches a day.

As for exercise, I'm only awake for 4-5 hours after I get home from work. In that time, I will play with Junior for 5-10 minutes each hour before he lays back down to rest. He loves the laser pointer and I also have a foil mouse on a string which he loves chasing and pouncing on. On weekends I'm home most of the time and play with Junior off and on through the day. Junior seems to be more nocturnal though and sleeps quite a bit during the day even when I'm home.

Thanks again for your time and info. May I ask where you got your information on 286 kcals for 11 lbs?

Mez

aquarius · Oct 28, 2007

Originally Posted by mezlo

Thanks for the great information (and the time you spent gathering it)!

That is the chart the vet based his opinion on. Junior is between 5 and 6 right now (closer to 6 than 5 though). The vet did not list an ideal weight, just body condition, so I think he was aiming more towards weight maintenance rather than loss at this time.

As for the EVO canned, I put out about 1/3 of a 5.5oz can and Junior ate about 3/4 of that. When I put the rest of the can out that evening, Junior only ate a few bites before switching to the dry. He ignored the canned food the rest of the evening. I filled out Wellness' contact form so hopefully they will give me the kcal information for the pouches. Their website says 2 pouches per 5 lbs per day. Based on your calculations, that'd be about 20 kcals per oz. Whether that's accurate or not, there's no way I'm going to give Junior 4 pouches a day.

As for exercise, I'm only awake for 4-5 hours after I get home from work. In that time, I will play with Junior for 5-10 minutes each hour before he lays back down to rest. He loves the laser pointer and I also have a foil mouse on a string which he loves chasing and pouncing on. On weekends I'm home most of the time and play with Junior off and on through the day. Junior seems to be more nocturnal though and sleeps quite a bit during the day even when I'm home.

Thanks again for your time and info. May I ask where you got your information on 286 kcals for 11 lbs?

Mez

Hi, Mez! No problem.

My source for the kcals/day comes form a form we use to do weight loss calculations at the clinic where I work. The formula is this:

MER (maintenance energy requirement) = RER (resting energy requirement) x adjustment factor (for intact vs neutered).

The RER for cats is: (30 x (weight in kilograms))+70; 11 lbs = 5 kg so
(30 x 5kg ) + 70 = 220 kcal/day.

Adjustment factor for neutered male is 1.2-1.4 (so I say 1.3 as an average)

So, in your case,
MER = 220 (the RER) x 1.3 (the adjustment factor) = 286.

So 286 is maintenance. It looks harder than it is. For weight LOSS, we would then do an additional formula. I am not sure what our veterinarians' source is for this form, but it is pretty standard.

There is always some variation, though. My kitty is around 12 pounds (but he is healthy sized), but I find he eats a bit less than he needs to and still maintains. Sometimes you still have to play with the numbers a bit, but it does give you a good general guideline.

mezlo · Oct 28, 2007

Originally Posted by Aquarius

Hi, Mez! No problem.

My source for the kcals/day comes form a form we use to do weight loss calculations at the clinic where I work. The formula is this:

MER (maintenance energy requirement) = RER (resting energy requirement) x adjustment factor (for intact vs neutered).

The RER for cats is: (30 x (weight in kilograms))+70; 11 lbs = 5 kg so
(30 x 5kg ) + 70 = 220 kcal/day.

Adjustment factor for neutered male is 1.2-1.4 (so I say 1.3 as an average)

So, in your case,
MER = 220 (the RER) x 1.3 (the adjustment factor) = 286.

So 286 is maintenance. It looks harder than it is. For weight LOSS, we would then do an additional formula. I am not sure what our veterinarians' source is for this form, but it is pretty standard.

There is always some variation, though. My kitty is around 12 pounds (but he is healthy sized), but I find he eats a bit less than he needs to and still maintains. Sometimes you still have to play with the numbers a bit, but it does give you a good general guideline.

I assume that formula is for adult cats, right? Junior is around 8 months so is technically still a kitten. Does the same formula still apply?

Mez

aquarius · Oct 28, 2007

Originally Posted by mezlo

I assume that formula is for adult cats, right? Junior is around 8 months so is technically still a kitten. Does the same formula still apply?

Mez

Hmm... it may not be. Let me double check on that tomorrow. I am sure I can get you an answer, but it may be higher kcals for kittens.

yosemite · Oct 29, 2007

I'm another advocate for the wet food over the dry. Bijou was getting pretty chunky - 18.5 lbs. I changed his dry food to Orijen, cut back on the amount fed and started giving wet morning and night. Since August he has lost 1.3 lbs and is looking much more svelte.

aquarius · Oct 29, 2007

Originally Posted by mezlo

I assume that formula is for adult cats, right? Junior is around 8 months so is technically still a kitten. Does the same formula still apply?

Mez

Hi, Mez! I wanted to drop you a line before I forget. I just checked with our nutrition guru at work, and she told me that yes, these figures should be correct for your 8 month old kitty.

Just remember, it is a general guideline, so keep an eye on his weight. Like I said, I feed my cat a little less than what was calculated for him.. and that was what worked for him.

mezlo · Oct 29, 2007

Originally Posted by Aquarius

Hi, Mez! I wanted to drop you a line before I forget. I just checked with our nutrition guru at work, and she told me that yes, these figures should be correct for your 8 month old kitty.

Just remember, it is a general guideline, so keep an eye on his weight. Like I said, I feed my cat a little less than what was calculated for him.. and that was what worked for him.

Thanks for checking!

Mez

mezlo · Oct 30, 2007

Here is the reply I got from Old Mother Hubbard:

Healthy Indulgence Turkey & Duck 73 Calories per pouch
Healthy Indulgence Salmon & Chicken 67 Calories per pouch
Healthy Indulgence Chicken, Duck & Shrimp 72 Calories per pouch
Healthy Indulgence Chicken, Crab & Herring 70 Calories per pouch

The pouches are 3 ounces each. Based on this I guess the 2 pouches per 5 pounds is pretty close to accurate. I'll start feeding him 2 pouches and 1/4 cup of the EVO dry and see how that goes.

Mez

sharky · Oct 30, 2007

Originally Posted by mezlo

Here is the reply I got from Old Mother Hubbard:

Healthy Indulgence Turkey & Duck 73 Calories per pouch
Healthy Indulgence Salmon & Chicken 67 Calories per pouch
Healthy Indulgence Chicken, Duck & Shrimp 72 Calories per pouch
Healthy Indulgence Chicken, Crab & Herring 70 Calories per pouch

The pouches are 3 ounces each. Based on this I guess the 2 pouches per 5 pounds is pretty close to accurate. I'll start feeding him 2 pouches and 1/4 cup of the EVO dry and see how that goes.

Mez

Sounds good ... But have you called the vet to get the ideal wt for Jr yet??? see NO ONE can see him online... I thought Gigi was OBESE and via me looking at the charts she was overwt to obese but the vet stated she normal to slightly overwt

mezlo · Oct 30, 2007

Originally Posted by sharky

Sounds good ... But have you called the vet to get the ideal wt for Jr yet??? see NO ONE can see him online... I thought Gigi was OBESE and via me looking at the charts she was overwt to obese but the vet stated she normal to slightly overwt

No I haven't but since Junior was between 5 and 6 on the chart, I was planning on just maintaining his weight, not losing weight.

Mez

Junior is leaning towards overweight

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