child abuse?

My parents can be very thankful that they are not raising their children now. They would be in jail. It was not uncommon for them to use the belt, nor was it uncommon for it to be taken too far. There is a difference between a spanking and a beating. Personally I have no problem with parents using a belt but there is a line between discipline and abuse. The problem lies with determining exactly where that line is.

I'm with you Bruce. At least the judge seems to have some common sense.

When kids have the upper hand, it is not a good thing.

Edited to add to catcaregiver, that is an excellent post.

I personally am not fond of anyone using the belt, however I don't see anything wrong with the palm of the hand connecting with the child's tush rapidly.

I know many people will disagree with any sort of physical punishment on this site, but I've seen WAY too many children either get away with crap because the parents are afraid to discipline their children or they "ground" the child and send them to their room (which has a TV, XBox, a phone, their own personal refridgerator, etc).

discipline doesnt have to be taught using physical pain. The thing with hitting a child with a belt (or anything) is that all children are different, some grow up having no issues whatsoever and some are wounded in their spirit from it. There are different ways to teach another human what is right and what is wrong besides hitting them like they are worthless.

There is nothing wrong with a spanking. I got them growing up and I turned out fine. My SO got whipped with belts, switches whatever was close at hand and quick to get to. We both turned out fine. we know right from wrong. We excelled in school. Kids these days need spankings. They get away with far too much.

But kids will be kids and tey will push the limit. There were times I was doing things I knew would get me in trouble but did them anyways cause whata week without TV? Friends would just tell me what happened and i would watch it next week. But when i knew the end result was a spanking I was less likely to do it. A whooping with a belt isn't hitting them like they are worthless. Hitting them like they are worthless is beating them for me reason at all.

I usually got spanked with a hand or a wooden spoon. They never left any bruises on me and I turned out fine. Discipline is necessary for raising kids. At a certain age, they get too old to spank and then you take priveleges away (no use of the car, no Television, that sort of thing.) Too few parents discipline their children because they would rather try to be their child's "best friend". Parenting is not about being buddies with your kid, it is about raising a well-adjusted member of society. Nothing wrong with having a good relationship with your child, but remember that first, you are the parent, secondly you are their friend.

My friend was hit with hands and other implements, and it DID NOT STOP HER FROM BEING BAD. She drank, she lost her virginity at a young age, she was defiant of authority, she was in a group home for a while, she smoked cigarettes, and at one time ran away from home for three months. Hitting her only pis*ed her off more.

I was given a spanking or two as a kid, but I usually only needed a raised voice.

And about being a kid's parent and not his friend, it is possible to be both. My mom is my friend and she is my mother. We can talk about stuff and we have fun together, but she is still my mother, and I respect her.

I couldn't agree more. My parents also used the wooden spoon or a hand and the occasional slipper. My grandfather was all about the belt. There is a big difference between child abuse and discipline and some people fail to see that.

Hmmm, I just think is it really teaching your kids anything hitting them? What are you teaching them?? To be scared of their parents?

Can't children be taught to do right without physical consequences?

I was spanked, I never felt worthless. My parents cared enough about me to spank me. I have wonderful parents that love my brother and I deeply, they spanked us with love.

It is possible, however the parents have to be very strict, not allow anything in their rooms that are toys and fun stuff, and have to be consistant. Many parents just are not that consistant.

Heck one of my friends was in trouble so much and all she ever got was grounded (or not allowed to be with her friends). It was a joke to her by High school as she just sat around the house watched TV, talked to us on the phone, etc.

IMO if the grounding or non-physical discipline doesn't work, then you definitely need to kick it up a notch.

The butt is connected to the brain.

1. Yes, if a talking to and discussion accompanies the spanking.

2. You are teaching them that there are repercussions from doing what they know is Wrong and those repercussions hurt.

3. I was never scared of my parents, UNLESS I had something MYSELF that I knew was wrong.

4. Some can, most can't.

And the kids grow up with no limits and the poor teachers have no control and doesn't THAT make for wonderful young adults when they FINALLY realize that life is really not all about them.

I don't spank my children , my children are very disciplined, My children know how to behave in store, restaurant, I can take them any where, as soon as they cross the line, I put them in their place. my neighbour is outside, yelling at her kids, and spanks them constantly, she can't take her 5 brats any where, I think it's ok to give a swat on the bottom, but I don't think you should use a belt. I don't think it is a criminal offense to spank.

to my recollection, I was only spanked once as a child and that was because I ran into the street The threat was always there though, my Mom would say "I am going to count to three" and my Dad said "In 2 seconds I'm getting the belt" (he never did)

I was afraid of my mother, I was afraid of her spanking me! I truly believe that children need to have a fear of their parents, if they don't fear their parents, how are they going to treat other adults? They'll think they can just walk all over them too.

The problem isn't spanking per se, but parents losing control, and using a belt goes a bit too far for my tastes. A swift whack on the butt with your palm is one thing, but numerous blows with an object at the very least border on child abuse.

My mother used to take her moods out on us, no matter whether we were being naughty, and I don't call having your head bashed against the wall, being beaten with a book, or having your hair pulled out "discipline". There's a very thin line between discipline and abuse.

In this particular case, there's no way to judge without having seen photos of the actual injuries. The fact that the child made a big deal about not being able to sit tells me that the "disciplinary action" was a waste of time.

...a great attention grabber, too -- probably the whole point of making a fuss.

We were occasionally spanked as kids. Sometimes, you just need to get the kid's attention, and a good whack on the butt will accomplish that, especially if it's not a daily occurrence. It does need to be in the context of an obviously loving relationship, where "no" means something, where discipline is consistent, otherwise it's not long before a single whack escalates to several, and onward until, lo and behold, the child is being beaten.

I don't believe in using anything other than the hand, either, because it is too easy to distance oneself from the delivery of the blow if one's own body is not feeling the impact. It should "hurt me as much as it does you".

Beating your kid with a belt doesn't teach them anything. There is no concept of right or wrong instilled, just a "oh, I shouldn't do that one thing, or Daddy will hurt me again".

A smack on the bottom is one thing, but the way my parents did it (twice) it was way more upsetting that they were mad at me, and it never hurt at all. The kids I babysat for (and no, I don't have children, but since nothing qualifies you to have them except getting pregnant, I don't see why it matters) who were spanked the worst/most were incredibly violent, incredibly difficult to deal with, and flat out obnoxious. One of them punched me in the throat, and his mother spanked him in response. How does that work? You can't hit people until you are an adult? The children who were well-behaved were never spanked-- and these kids would look at the clock and tell you it was time for bed, share everything, etc etc.

Positive discipline works. Violence doesn't. Just like cats.

Wow, OK I just finished the article. I didn't realize the child got "The Belt" because he received bad grades in school [prior to the father losing custody].

No one deserves physical punishment due to bad grades. Heck IMO it probably adds to the child not doing well in school than helping it. In that case, yea he should lose the kid cause he's in that gray area that leans towards abuse. Grades need positive reinforcement, like Zissou's mom said. Give the child money or take them out to eat or something when they do well. Make them WANT to earn another good grade. Don't beat them.

I suppose to each their own... I am really suprised by what I am reading here.

I was spanked when I was a child, hit, belted, spooned, back handed... you named it... I was probably hit with it or it thrown at me. & With me it stops.

Raising your hand to a child or Raising ANYTHING to a child is absolutely UNNECESSARY.

When your Dog pees on the floor do you SPANK it or Whack it with your Belt? Of course not... that's Animal Cruelty. When your Cat gets into your Dinner when you run to the restroom for a second and leave dinner on the counter & you catch it red handed mowing on your meal, DO YOU SPANK your Cat or Whack it with a Belt?!? Of course not... that's Animal Cruelty....

But our own Human Children you feel free to disapline them physically with Spanking or with Belts and do NOT call it Cruelty or Abuse???!?!?

Indeed it is.

I have Quadruplets, who will be 4 years old this Halloween. I have never raised my hand to them. We do time outs, time in their room (which has no toys, all toys are in their playroom), talks of actions and conciqueces, I have highly intellegent children, of whom follow my directions when told, they have respect for their parents, I have had compliments from strangers and family on how well behaved my children are & NONE of it is from 'agressive' parenting. It is all from suffering concequences for your actions. You throw a fit at the table at Dinner. You go to your Room. You Hit your Brother/Sister, You get a Time-Out, then a Speech from Mommy about what you've done, Then me asking if they would like to tell their brother/sister they are sorry & give them a hug (they always do). & We carry on with our day in Peace.

I go full days with no Time-Outs... Some days with 2-3... Some with up to 6 I've NEVER had any More than that... I have very respectful almost 4 year olds because of how they have been raised from birth having not been raised with an 'agressive hand'.



I'm not saying that's how every house HAS to be... but this is what works for us & I would never ever do any different.

but, since all children are different, some will respond more rapidly & consistently to physical punishment, while others will respond poorly to it.

same here. my mom tended to use a wooden spoon, my dad his belt. mom chose that implement because she says it'll break before you hit the kid hard enough to cause any real harm. she also like a yardstick for the same reason... a ruler is too stiff, tho.

some can; some can't. every child is different & responds differently to all of the different forms of punishment.



& it tends to make me think that it probably wasn't as bad as the child made it out to be...

again, it really differs from child to child...

case in point: when my sister & i were small, mom used to punish her by making her sit under the kitchen table. she still remembers watching mom's legs walking around the kitchen.
mom never did this to me, & i asked her once why. she told me because i wouldn't have cared.
she's right - it wouldn't have been a punishment to me. very little in the way of 'time-out' type of punishments would've been... but i disliked spankings!

I would hazzard a guess that most lazy American parents are not like you. They don't have it in them to be consistent.
Kids are growing up with no manners, no respect for their parents or other authority. It is disgusting.

You cannot compare the disciplining of animals to the disciplining of humans. Apples and oranges and all.....

I was spanked (or in some instances beaten) as a child, I think I turned out ok. Yes, there are other forms of discipline but that doesn't mean spanking doesn't work, or that it is "wrong". Not all children learn by having time outs, just as not all children learn from getting spanked. Children are individuals and need to be dealt with on an individual basis. As I said earlier, sometimes the butt is connected to the brain. Pain is a consequence of undesired behavior and a great deterrent.

I would agree that you abused as a child. If things were being thrown at you then, yes that's the thick black line between abuse and discipline. I'm sorry that you had to suffer through that

I was spanked as a child, but my bottom only hurt for maybe an hour at most. Never left bruises and never had pain for a long time. However I got the message.

IMO the discipline i received never made me fear my parents. Really it taught me that if I do something wrong than I have to suffer the consequences.

Hitting a child doesn't teach them to respect, it teaches them fear. I would never want my children to be afraid of me.

People give in too easily with children..you should never lose your cool enough to hit anyone, let alone a child. Instead of talking to them..lets hit them! That'll learn 'em!

They are people too, with ears and brains...TALK to them.

I was spanked as a child and I was never afraid of my parents. Why do people ALWAYS say that?

But I was afraid of what would happen IF I did something I KNEW was wrong.

BIG difference.

Right, it makes children more devious and sneaky when they do do something bad because they will always try to hide it and not get hit. Sneaky children are the worst. I would rather my child not be afraid to be honest with me and just admit they were bad.