Venting on hypocrisy - Page 2  

Adultery has a lot more Bible references than homosexuality does too. http://search.msn.com/results.aspx?q....cc%20adultery

I know I get very cranky someone else might die in that situation


Very good point, Natalie
very very interesting

Perhaps we can get back on topic?

I'm still a tiny bit confused about the original post This part particularly;

Was there something about the interview or what was said that made the OP think that this was true of the preachers? Or is this a "what if"? Maybe they were virgins marrying virgins?

It could happen...

Like it was said before, all religions have their good and bad points, not just christianity. Look at the Hindus, they use to (and some strict groups still) believe that if a married man dies before his wife does, it is the womans fault and the only way to save herself is to throw herself on to her husbands funeral fire.

Or, buddists who believe that if your are born a woman you must have done something wrong in a past life to return as a such a lesser being. Also, If you are a woman, you can never reach true enlightenment.

These "beliefs" are the reason I do not believe in any one religion. Most of religions scriptures (bible, Quran, etc) were written many years ago when things were dramatically differant. People take things too literal. These books should be used as a guide, not as a strict belief system.

This is what I personally believe....
There is a greater power. Call it whatever you want to. God, Allah, Vishnu, whatever... Something made us all. LIve your life as a generally good person (help your fellow man, care for all creatures great and small, be there for those who need you even if its hard for you, etc) And you will be rewarded in someway when you die. It could be heaven, reincarnation, or something else but there will be something for you. Thats what I believe.

One more point to make, if people are born gay (which some scientists believe they may have found the actual gene for) then god must have made them that way. Now why would God, who does not make mistakes, have people be born that way if he believed it was wrong. I think God just wants us to be happy. But like everyone else, thats just my opinion

Wow, Coaster, I SO agree with this post.

Ahhh because God never made homosexuals that way. Those scientists can search for the "gene" till the end of time and never find it.

And on the topic of living without sex - a married couple can still live without sex and stay a loving married couple. IF the couple is truely dedicated to that person, they will live without sex. Think of the situation where one of the couple has an accident or disease where they are not capable of having physical sex. If that couple is strong and devoted to each other in every other way, they will be fulfilled and will do without sex.

Takes faith, trust, love and committment to do that. There are few couples that are willing to stick around no matter what happens.

I can see why people feel the same way about sex before marriage, adultery, and homosexuality. Though it certainly isn't gay people's fault that they can't get married, so it's hard to see that argument.

I imagine you could hear the pain in the man's voice because he is being told that who he is, on a very fundamental level, is wrong and worthy of hatred. The venom some of these people have is unbelievable, you would think they are talking to Hitler as he murders a baby, instead of judging someone for who they love. Go to a Pride parade sometime. It's amazing to me to watch the thousands of glbtq/supporters quietly tolerate these sorts, screaming all kinds of things at them, etc (though they will chant things loudly over top of them, ) but these "protestors" come to a pride parade on purpose, just to be mean and hold signs like "God hates [the british slang for cigarettes]"

Gay men and women don't necessarily agree with other people's moral codes, so we can't ask them to refrain from having real relationships because they don't want the 'right' kind. And yet, they're judged on a daily basis, by their family, friends, strangers, etc.

Imagine living like that, being made to feel like you should be ashamed of yourself for being you. I have seen this happen to more than one of my friends, and frankly it makes me ashamed to be the same species.


GoldenKitty, who cares if it is one specific gene or not? How does that make it wrong? It isn't like people wake up one day and decide they feel like sinning and making everybody mad, and the best way to do that is to be gay. Are you genetically straight? Do you remember deciding to like boys?

That's a slippery slope. People are born with birth defects too. People were originally created as perfect beings (in the image of God), it wasn't until sin entered the world that "defects" appeared.

I am probably going to regret posting this.

Who said God made a mistake when someone is born gay? Who are we to fathom the mind and purposes of God, who made the universe? Who is above space and time? Who knows all things? There must be some purpose a person is born with a homosexual orientation. Yet He says in the Bible that it's wrong to actually practice it. Who are we to know why it's that way? If we knew what God knows, who'd need God anyway? All He calls us to do is to do His will. And if His will is for gays to not have sex with each other, then there must be some reason for it to be that way.

Mind you, for the sake of argument, I'm putting a pretty literal interpretation on it. And that's where all the fun comes in. Either someone believes the Bible or they don't. If they believe it, they can't pick and choose just the parts that suit them. BUT.....there is the matter of different interpretations. And that's why it causes so many fights.

And to loosely tie that in to the OP, I think that radio show was a matter of picking and choosing.

Gay people are born that way, and I can prove it!!

Danny Pintauro!

Anyone that can spend 8 years growing up on a sitcom set with Alyssa Milano and still be gay, had to be born that way!!

You are so right!

If the idea of male/female pairing was to procreate (animals or man) then WHY would God in all his wisdom ever create gay people. He didn't. Plain and simple.

The gay people are just trying to justify their choice. When sin entered the world thru Satan, then things got messed up. God made man and woman perfect and his plan was for them to be together - not 2 males or 2 females.

The first murderer (sin) was when Cain killed his brother. All you need to do is read the first few chapters of Genesis

And yet a person born gay is one of God's creatures. God loves all His creatures. "For God so loved the whole world....."

I agree GOD ( Ye way , Jehovah , Lord ) did NOT create Gay people ... Satan did...

I have no issue with Gay people they are human ....

So, why would God create people who were incapable of reproduction? People who just plain have no interest in sex? Is anyone with no children being sinful? If not, how is a straight couple who decides not to have children any different than a gay couple? What if they adopt?

And, I finally understand why you insist it must be a choice. Because then you can judge them and say its wrong. If it were something they were born with, then you couldn't do this.

I'll go ahead and ask again:
GoldenKitty, who cares if it is one specific gene or not? How does that make it wrong? It isn't like people wake up one day and decide they feel like sinning and making everybody mad, and the best way to do that is to be gay. Are you genetically straight? Do you remember deciding to like boys?


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Being gay is not from Satan, it isn't a defect, and I hope in a couple decades some of the things being said in this thread will be recognized for what they are.

I'm sorry, but the Bible is a hypocrit. Just about every other line contradicts itself. I consider myself a semi femenist and it makes me sick; the double standars that are found in that book is out of this world.

Another point about the hipocrisy. All those people who belive so strongly in the bible and say that gays are sinners and will burn in the fires below are they themselves going against what the bible teaches.

"Judge not, that ye be not judged. For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measurement ye mete, it shall be measured to you again. And why beholdest thou the mote (speck) that is in thy brother’s eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye? Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye? Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and them shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother’s eye.†Matthew 7:1-5"

It is not our place to say what they are doing is right or wrong. That judgement is left up to God. How many people hear can say that they have never cheated on your significant other, had sex when you weren't married, or had impure thoughts about someone when you were with someone else. (Yes, celebrities count too)

“But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment. For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words shalt thou be condemned.†Matthew 12:36,37

Everyone sins, everyone makes mistakes. But its not my job to point those mistakes out and condemn the person for them. That is a job left to God. How does there being gay hurt anyone? I would rather someone be gay, then someone be a murder or comit adultry or steal or lie. At least their being gay does not hurt another living person.

I think we should leave gays alone, and let them live there lives.

It probably was a blessing for the woman, but..it doesn't justify it, hehe.
Well, in one case, thinking about something is a behavior, and by thinking about it you are, in my opinion, commiting the "act of being gay" (or straight for that matter), you just don't happen to be having sex. To me thinking and feeling about your sexual desires/sex drive is the same thing as acting upon it, one is just the extension of the other.

I disagree... life might be fulfilling and rewarding in other ways, but if it's that easy to dismiss sex, then people aren't having the right kind of sex. And apparently there are lots of issues with being celibate, whether done as a vow of celibacy or a vow of marriage to a person that stops having sex with you.. those vows are broken on a regular basis.

I actually think sex is greatly UNDERrated in this society. Sex appeal is greatly overrated, but sex itself is still the demon in the closet no one wants to address.

By that same thought, what's to stop you from sinning all of your life and asking for forgiveness right before you die so that you are forgiven and all is well? Everyone repents right before they die, or at least most people.

No, but someone else might die if I kill them.

If thats the case then it wouldn't occur in animals. It's been proven to occur in animals, including in species that mate for life.

How very true, even if I don't believe in God.


My personal belief is that religion is effectively hypocritical (which not to say that it's bad or wrong). It is often changed to suit the behaviors and attitudes of different people. That's human nature. People are self-serving to some degree... even those that are selfless and giving.

There are very few practising and devout Christians that I personally know (this is within my circle of immediate IRL associates, not anyone here) that are not judgemental and hypocritical to some degree on some subject. I know a lot of Christians who are *not* hard line actively practising who do not fall into that category. It doesn't matter, though, as I'm still friends with them, and still respect that they have their own beliefs. I don't have to respect what they believe, I only have to respect that they believe differently than I do.

I think that Sharky posted it all right there, it doesn't matter whether it's right, or wrong, or a sin or not a sin, no one has the right to judge anyone else, and while I don't understand why anyone would want the approval of an entity that so flagrantly disapproves of who you are...(i.e. being gay and asking the church for approval).. I don't think it was their right to judge that man. They had the right to sit on tv and say it, of course, as did the talk show host, by the basics of freedom of speech, but.. that doesn't make it right.

But all of us judge each other. Many of our daily decisions are based on how we judge people.

I hope these questions don't come across as , because they've come to mind while I've been following this thread.

I'm currently re-reading a German novel published in 1819/20, that I first read more than 30 years ago. Although I'm fairly familiar with the language of that time, having studied German Lit., I find that I'm paying careful attention to the footnotes, for two reasons: 1) German isn't my native language, and 2) a multitude of the references are completely obscure nowadays, and many of the words used have disappeared from the German language, changed their meanings in the meantime, or were used in Italy or France in the late 18th/early 19th centuries. So, given that German has changed so much over roughly two centuries, how is it possible to quote a work that has been translated from one language to another to another, etc., over nearly two thousand years?

2) How many people who quote the Bible have actually read it in its entirety? I was raised a Roman Catholic, though I attended public elementary and middle/junior high schools. I went to a parochial (RC) high school, and spent four years at a Jesuit university. I had catechism/theology classes, but absolutely no emphasis was placed upon reading the Bible. I'm a little bit familiar with it from attending mass (sporadically). I did attempt to read it myself, but found it so incomprehensible/contradictory that I never got very far.

Does(n't) the sheer age of the Bible, and the fact that you've probably only read a translation of a translation of a translation done when certain political or social factors influenced the translators, affect your acceptance of the "Gospel truth", to use a trite phrase?

At least this has been a religious thread without acrimony, without disrespect, without finger-pointing. A thread with passionately and coherently expressed opinions and beliefs from all sides. Ain't it great?

I don't know ANY human being that is not hypocritical, not one. Being a hypocrite is a human failing, NOT a Christian failing.

That's what's so remarkable about the Bible and is the best evidence that it is what it claims to be, and that is it's remarkable coherence and lack of contradiction after all those copies and translations. When the Dead Sea Scrolls were discovered, the text is essentially the same as it is today. When prophecies made in the Old Testament written four or five hundred years before actually come true after all that time, and the occurrences confirmed by contemporary non-Biblical historians, how else can it be explained?

And yes, I've read it through, several times. It doesn't make sense the first time through; maybe not even the second time. Only when it's read and reread over and over do you begin to see how it all ties together.

Quite often I've read people say something about what they think the Bible says, but it's pretty obvious it's something they've heard second hand, not something they've actually read in there themselves. I think everybody should read it themselves and make their own minds. You can't make up your mind from hearing someone else talk about it. They may be putting their own spin on it. Read it yourself and see what it has to say to you.

I have not quoted the Bible here but I have read it in its entirety - well ok, I did skip more than a few "begats" to be honest.

The simple answer is "no". I trust God to keep His word true. I don't have all the answers and I don't understand everything. That's why it's called "faith".

Well, there is that little change that was made while the bible was being translated for King James; "thou shalt not suffer a witch to live". The poor guy was terrified of witches, so his scholars gave him an out to burn them without making god mad.

Nope.

I was taught and I believe the Bible was DIVINELY translated and written, from God through Man.

I too was raised in a religious household, and went to roman catholic school for most of my life. I have read the entire bible, (not to say that I understand it entirely) Thats why I only quote what I know...

Things were lost in translation of the bible. For example, Everyone thinks that moses crossed the read sea... He did not. He crossed the sea of reeds which was known to dry up on occasion. Not to say that it wasn't an act of God that it had dried up at that particullar time, but it simply proves that basic human error can change an entire belief.

Ok, I can continue now, how to find something.

Sitting in front of me right now, is my grandmother's King James bible, published in 1919. Right beside it, a King James bible published in 1993. In my grandmother's bible the 6th commandment is "thou shalt not kill". In the newer one, it is "thou shalt not murder".

This would appear to be an example of it changing over time.

I think I heard that theory on the History Channel Shorty. Personally, I believe what is in the Bible and believe it was the Red Sea God held back for Moses and the Israelites.