Venting on hypocrisy - Page 9  

No, I have never been through anything like that. I don't "flop around on the floor" either. I, also, don't speak in tongues although I know people that have.

In the New Testament it says something to the effect, to spread the word of Christ to people, but if the people don't want to hear the message of Christ,
shake the dust off your shoes and move on.

You are free to believe as you choose.

BUT, Jesus said, "There is no way to the Father but through ME"
He said it and I believe it.

I think it's a good point you make -- religion and faith aren't the same thing. Religion might be the expression of a particular faith or set of beliefs, but a person can practice a religion and not have any faith.

LOL I am not laughing at you, but I can relate. I grew up with my step-family (now ex-step-family), and they were/are southern baptist. My biological family are Catholic. The worst part about my ex-step-family was my ex-step-grandfather is a preacher. I was force to attend church at least three times a week (Sunday morning and evening and Wednesday night). If I were to question anything about religion, I good a verbal bashing sometimes with a physical bashing. About the witch-thing, when I was still in that family, I attended a christian school--I was a sophomore in high school. I wore alot of black and dark clothes only because I was kind of "the dark artist" throughout high school. I drew alot of fantasy art and listened to dark music, but I was in no way a goth. Well, some of the preppy, snobby girls at school cornered me in the bathroom and accused me of being a witch and that I turned people into pineapples and that I had put spells on some of the teachers and students.

But pineapples are so tasty! Don't be ashamed

That's the kind of thing that makes me angry, but makes me laugh. If you dress like a witch then you must be one. And then if you are a witch you must be evil. It's small minded people who have been brought up to fear anything different who pick on you. I just dress the way i want to, and i only have my subtle hints of witchyness like my small pentagram earrings which most people just see as nice earrings. I used to do the goth thing (before i was a witch) because i still felt out of place. But i know i don't have to dress in flowing robes and things to still be who i am inside. Plus the sexy gothy wiccan clothes i want are OH so expensive

I just have to say, that physical and verbal bashing for questioning something is so wrong that is NOT how a good god fearing person should be, and if anything you should allow the younger generation to question things, otherwise how would we learn?

ck - that is so true about the spreading the gospel to all the earth. You cannot MAKE a person believe (Jesus didn't even make everyone a believer in Him!). But our duty is to tell others about God/Jesus. Up to them if they want to accept or not.

Thing is we all only have one choice to make (there is no reincarnation) - so when you die you either believe the truth and accept it or you don't. Those names that are written in the Book of Life will be the ones that see Heaven.

YOU believe there is no re-incarnation. Some people DO believe it

Um, that is not how any good person period should be - regardless of spirituality, religion, etc.

That was not my experience. I went to church on my own, in high school and learned concepts I agreed with, and some I did not agree with. I was always spiritual, just not religious. Yes, there is a difference. You can be both or you can be only one. Christians are from all walks of life, there are all different types. And they each experience their Christianity differently depending upon they themselves and their internal morals and values, how active they become in that faith, their peer group, trips they take, the leaders in the church, the groups they are a part of, etc. For instance, I never could agree with some things due to my feminist and compassionate nature, but others made sense to me. My husband is a Christian religion, but that doesn’t mean he knows everything about it or even believes in everything that religions says he should. He was born into his religion and I know a lot more about it than he does.

There is something to say for American main stream culture, God plays a big part in our culture, from our daily language, basic understanding of other Christian popular religions and in movies, books, etc.

Yes i know this. But my point being, Christians are out to send a message of love and peace on behalf of their beliefs. So they should not be procrastinating and putting down people who DO not believe in their religion and accept them as they are. Before i became Wiccan and was still finding out what i wanted, religion confused me, but i did not call Christians crazy, and now that i am Wiccan i still don't go out and say "hey, you believe in a different god, go away i don't want to know you"

Do you get what i am saying? Obviousely myself nor anyone else is perfect, but you should practise what you preach. That includes tolerance no matter how much you dislike other people not going to the same church as you.

Yes, I get what you're saying. But Christians aren't out just to send of message of love and peace on behalf of their beliefs, they're supposed to send the message of their beliefs, as I think most religions do to one extent or another. And I think the problem is that some people think that in hearing that, they're being the objects of intolerance or put-downs. Because part of the message is about sin. It has to be, or else the message about redemption and salvation has no meaning.

Respecting the right of a person to have different beliefs is not the same as withholding the expression of disagreement with those beliefs. If a person doesn't want to hear the disagreement; if they don't want to hear the other's beliefs, then they only need say "I don't wish to hear about it." It's only when those wishes are disrespected when the intolerance begins. (And from your earlier description of your experiences at home I can see where that's happened in your life.)

But, to put it another way: in general, I think some people are a little too thin-skinned when someone disagrees with their beliefs.

Note that I'm NOT accusing anyone HERE of that!!

Proselytizing is not an aspect of the church I grew up in, nor was it looked kindly upon.

Can i just say that this has been a really good thread? I was upset the other night and wasn't going to talk on here anymore (due to something my father said) but this has been really good. I'm glad we're able to speak from boths ends without smacking eachother. Discussion like this on other forums have never gone well for me, a religious discussion with my father only lasts 30 seconds before he tells me to shut up because i dont know what i'm talking about. You guys and Tristan are the only ones who actually listen and give good feedback without judgement

Just wanted to say thanks There's always going to be contraversey and disagreements, and i'm glad that even knowing there are alot of Christians here, no one has ignored or been mean to me just because i'm pagan.

I think that last post should make everyone here feel good.

As I understand "proselytizing" it's forcing it upon someone and yes, that shouldn't be looked kindly upon. But nobody will hear the message if there's never a message delivered, so it has to start somewhere. And then if the audience isn't receptive, don't push it on them. Billy Graham preaches to people who come to hear him; he doesn't go out on the street and grab them by the lapel to holler in their ears.

Pineapples are yummy in stir fry.

I also agree with you on the "bashing". That's just how I was raised. Our past makes us who we are today. I am neither witch nor Christian as an adult. When I was growing up, I only claimed to be Christian, because if I had said that I was anything else, it would have started again.

My dad was an elder in the church, we went to church as babies thru teenagers. I understood some of the things, but looking back would not have called myself a Christian. I quit going to church during my first marriage (abusive ex).

Only in the past few years do I consider myself a Christian, because I understand a lot more, am more into the Bible, and want to know more about God/Jesus.

There are people their entire lives that sit in church for one hour on Sunday and the rest of the time/week do whatever they want to do without really knowing or believing God's words. Those are "christians" on the outside - not the inside They are the "look at me, I go to church every week" - but their actions speak louder then their words

I happen to believe there definitely IS reincarnation.

How true this is. My MIL is Christian inside and out and is a truly wonderful, kind, loving person. If I lived to be 100 I'd never be able to come close to being as good as she is. However, I grew up as a Baptist and went to church. Unfortunately the majority of the congregation was those "Christians on the outside" as you stated. Often they only came to church to be seen as being pious when in fact they were checking out what other folks were wearing, whether their hair was combed, etc., so they could get on the party-line and gossip about it for the rest of the week. That's not Christian.

I agree with the above poster that said faith and religion are two very different things. I have faith but I don't practice my religion. My God knows I love him and that I live my life to be the best I can for myself and Him. He'll be my judge - not the lady in the aisle across from me in the church.

As comforting as it may be to think one may have another chance, I don't believe in reincarnation. I think that God has enough souls to go around, they don't have to be used twice.

Ah but they aren't being used "twice" but many times. We keep coming back until we get it right!

It isn't about having another chance. It's also not about any individual person. Most religions featuring reincarnation also have no concept of a soul, and aren't monotheist.

So it's hard to apply Christian values to it.

Whoops, sorry about that then. Thank you for the clarification Z.

I believe in a soul, and I actually have memories of at least one other life, so it's pretty hard for me NOT to believe in Reincarnation. I remember myself in the early 1900's through and including the 1920's. I remember myself as a child in the early 90's and as a young woman in the 1920's, and those memories are every bit as real as any memory I've ever had in the life I have now. I don't remember anything beyond that, until you come to the live I have now, so I tend to think I might have died fairly young in the previous life.

In our family both sides were Christian, but they fought over which church was better, My parents choose, to keep us kids out of it, by allowing us to go to church, If we wanted, sometimes I went with one grandma , sometimes I went with the other, my parent taught us ,it doesn't matter which religon (sp) you were are, or what your beliefs are, love and accept everyone, the strange thing is (this always makes me giggle) when we moved away both grandmas started going to the same church. all those years of argueing for nothing

So to you does that mean in your perceived past lives you did not "get it right"?

Actually it was me that said we keep coming back until we "get it right" - not HopeHacker.

Belief in reincarnation and the Buddhist's "rebirth" are connected with the belief in karma. Yes, some people believe there is a soul that is reincarnated --- that is reborn in different souls until that soul is pure enough to be absorbed back into Atman.

Buddhist beliefs are more difficult to understand (at least for me!) because there is no Soul to be reincarnated. Just karma itself which -- as I get it is a kind of energy sac (! that sounds too wierd it must be wrong) -- that causes rebirth into a human body. That is why no baby is born completely innocent -- we are reborn with a history of certain experiences including possible negative emotional ones such as anger, distrust, or fear.

I was concerned about my daughter not having an ethical or moral base to act on. I actually lived in a Buddhist meditation center from the time she was 7 until she was 15. When she was about 11 I tried to get her to do the ceremony of Taking Vows. She told me she was never going to be religious. I took her at her word and never brought it up again. Now she is 31 and very interested in Buddhism. Who knew?

It IS hard to explain Eastern religions which are not based on God or a set of beliefs about how the world began, how humans were created, how the world will end and so on. When the Buddha was asked questions about these things he answered that knowing those things would not help us to be happy. He said if a person were shot with a poisoned arrow, the person would want the arrow removed, and medicine to be applied. He would not want to know first, what kind of arrow it was, who shot it, what clan they were, how the arrow was made, etc. Asking those questions was unnecessary to his treatment. (This is before medical forensics!) In the same way it is unnecessary for us to answer questions about God and the beginning of the universe, the ending of the universe, whether or not hell exists and so on. In fact, I think he went further and said that as human beings at this time, we cannot understand those things. Our minds are just not big enough.

Of course he also predicted that Buddhism as he taught it would end in about 2,500 years, which is about now. The new age will bring a Buddha who will teach new things to people who will have a different kind of understanding of life from the one of his time. There are contemporary Buddhists who have a yearly ceremony asking the Buddha Maitrya, the Buddha of the future, to come quickly! Buddhism is more a way to practice to attain happiness in this lifetime than a set of beliefs. I think the only belief necessary to practice Buddhism is that it is possible to attain insight and experience in this lifetime to better understand life and to be a better person.

I sympathise with people who have been mistreated by their own families in the name or any religion. My own daughter still has resentment toward Christians on her college campus who gave her a very hard time. It's taken time for her to realize that not all Christians are so hard-headed in the way they approach their religion.

Wow - I really love that post. And spoken like a true Buddhist

Reincarnation is a particularly difficult concept to explain. Although I consider myself a Buddhist, I do not believe in straightforward reincarnation (i.e. one person becomes another). I prefer to think of it as a transformation, following the principle of "nothing is gained, nothing is lost". When my body dies, it will decompose and nourish life again, and the consequences of my action will remain present in the world. Nothing about "me" will vanish.

(ok, I think I'm getting pretty off-topic)
I do feel lucky though that I live in a fairly tolerant society. In fact, people around here are for the larger part non-religious, so my beliefs are usually just met with curiosity.

Actually, I think that's a pretty good description of Christianity as well. You don't need to know the answers, you just need to have the faith. Some of my earlier posts in the thread address this.