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Oh Goodie

post #1 of 39
10/11/07 at 8:24am
Thread Starter 


http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1007/6250.html

Socialism at it's finest. Why don't we just stop saying we are a democracy?
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post #2 of 39
10/11/07 at 12:12pm
I'm sick of the middle class paying the taxes of the rich. Seriously, Americans are in more debt (student loan, credit card, mortgage, etc) than ever, while the rich get richer and richer. Trickle-down economics simply don't work-- the extremely wealthy keep their money, it's the middle class that spends more when they have more. Taxes should be in proportion to income, and even more so for money you didn't even earn. I don't know why that's socialism.

Socialist countries also don't privatize everything from war to VA hospitals to prisons to roads.
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post #3 of 39
10/11/07 at 12:38pm
Thread Starter 
Rich people DO pay more in taxes. The middle class is definitely NOT paying the taxes of the rich, that is absurd.

People also need to live within their means. I know that is a strange concept in today's society. I don't have a lot of sympathy for credit card debt.

What is wrong with being rich, isn't that the American dream?
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post #4 of 39
10/11/07 at 12:51pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ckblv View Post
Rich people DO pay more in taxes.

People also need to live within their means. I know that is a strange concept in today's society. I don't have a lot of sympathy for credit card debt.

What is wrong with being rich, isn't that the American dream?
Rich people pay kind of more taxes. In Bush's tax cut, almost 68% of the cut went to people who make more than 68,000$. Doesn't sound so bad, that's still middle class, right? Well, if you break it down a little more, people who make more than 335,000$ a year got more than 26% of the tax cut. That's more than 44 million dollars of tax revenue lost, as the deficit grows and grows and grows. Considering that Bush came into office inheriting a surplus, that we're in the middle of a war costing us billions upon billions, often paid in cash on cost-plus contracts to corrupt contractors who half-finish or never actually do their jobs, and that he has expanded the government to a point unknown prior to now, this is completely irresponsible fiscal policy. Where do you think that money is coming from? You say it's people's fault for living beyond their means-- I'll agree. But our entire country is living beyond its means.

I didn't say there was anything wrong with being wealthy. But that's a false dichotomy. Were there no rich people until Bush gave them a tax cut? Did people not inherit their billions before we stopped taxing capital gains?

I just really don't get how you can look around you and think "socialism". We're the least socialized democracy in the world. We have for-profit schools, for-profit hospitals, for-profit wars, for-profit health care. The waste and consumerism is overwhelming.
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post #5 of 39
10/11/07 at 12:52pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ckblv View Post
What is wrong with being rich, isn't that the American dream?
Greed, or Calvinism? It didn't work too well in the eighties, did it?
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post #6 of 39
10/11/07 at 12:59pm
Thread Starter 
I thought the American Dream, was "work very hard and you can go as far as you want"

You tell me, is that greed?

I have no desire to be rich, just secure.

Fact of the matter is the rich pay the vast majority of taxes right now.
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post #7 of 39
10/11/07 at 1:06pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ckblv View Post
Fact of the matter is the rich pay the vast majority of taxes right now.
And paying the taxes they did a decade ago kept them from... what? I don't remember taxes putting anybody in the poorhouse.

And yes, the top 20% pays about 80% of the taxes, while people who make less than 68,000$ pay about 20%. What is your point, exactly? If you want everyone to pay the same dollar amount of taxes, some of us would end up paying more than our income in taxes.
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post #8 of 39
10/11/07 at 1:15pm
Actually, because of the Alternative Minimum Tax, the middle class are paying a far higher percentage of taxes relative to their income than do the rich, who have their assets in all kinds of tax shelters, not to mention the tons of write-offs that they can get simply because they have enough money to make large contributions to certain organizations.

If it were a fair balance, the middle class would be able to grow their incomes without having to dig ever deeper into their pockets to pay tithe to Uncle Sam.

The rich really don't have to worry about taxes - it doesn't HURT them they way it hurts us little people.

You want to stimulate the economy? Give US more in our pockets to put back into the system - we won't be buying oil paintings and sculptures with it, instead, we'll be buying food and fuel for heat gas to get to work so we can buy gas to get to work, and medicine and ... well, you get the picture...
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post #9 of 39
10/11/07 at 1:38pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zissou'sMom View Post
I'm sick of the middle class paying the taxes of the rich. Seriously, Americans are in more debt (student loan, credit card, mortgage, etc) than ever, while the rich get richer and richer. Trickle-down economics simply don't work-- the extremely wealthy keep their money, it's the middle class that spends more when they have more. Taxes should be in proportion to income, and even more so for money you didn't even earn. I don't know why that's socialism.

Socialist countries also don't privatize everything from war to VA hospitals to prisons to roads.
My point IS, the middle class is NOT paying the taxes of the rich.
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post #10 of 39
10/11/07 at 1:51pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ckblv View Post
My point IS, the middle class is NOT paying the taxes of the rich.
But don't you think that 30% (or more) of your income is just a bit more than what should be considered your FAIR share, relatively speaking?
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post #11 of 39
10/11/07 at 2:47pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by GingersMom View Post
Actually, because of the Alternative Minimum Tax, the middle class are paying a far higher percentage of taxes relative to their income than do the rich, who have their assets in all kinds of tax shelters, not to mention the tons of write-offs that they can get simply because they have enough money to make large contributions to certain organizations.

If it were a fair balance, the middle class would be able to grow their incomes without having to dig ever deeper into their pockets to pay tithe to Uncle Sam.

The rich really don't have to worry about taxes - it doesn't HURT them they way it hurts us little people.

You want to stimulate the economy? Give US more in our pockets to put back into the system - we won't be buying oil paintings and sculptures with it, instead, we'll be buying food and fuel for heat gas to get to work so we can buy gas to get to work, and medicine and ... well, you get the picture...
Then get rich and it won't hurt YOU. And that is great that they can contribute to charitable organizations and get a tax write off. That is a
win-win as far as I am concerned. Irregardless if the $$$ goes to the government in taxes or a charity it is money that the rich PAYS OUT.
My goodness would you begrudge the charity?

There will always be rich and there will always be poor and middle class and there will always be people complaining they aren't getting their fair share.
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post #12 of 39
10/11/07 at 2:50pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by GingersMom View Post
But don't you think that 30% (or more) of your income is just a bit more than what should be considered your FAIR share, relatively speaking?
I am not paying 30% of my income in taxes, not even close. But I sure will be if the Democrats have their way about it. And if Mrs. Clinton's socialist health care program goes into effect.
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post #13 of 39
10/11/07 at 3:43pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ckblv View Post
I am not paying 30% of my income in taxes, not even close. But I sure will be if the Democrats have their way about it. And if Mrs. Clinton's socialist health care program goes into effect.
Huh... that's weird, considering we are third in public spending on health care WITH a private health care system. A "socialist" health care program might actually lessen our public costs once some of the profit, overhead, and malpractice is taken out.

And if you aren't paying nearly 30% in taxes, you're not middle class. Don't forget to add in state taxes, which in most states are about 8%.
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post #14 of 39
10/11/07 at 3:46pm
Thread Starter 
I AM middle class and I AM figuring in Sales Tax of 0775%.

But I am figuring it the fair way. On my TOTAL gross income before deductions.

If I make $50,000 a year gross and pay $5,000 in Fed income tax that is 10% tax to me.

Add 8% sales tax and, voila, 18%


And that $50,000 does NOT include the $600.00 a month my employer pays for my Health insurance.
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post #15 of 39
10/11/07 at 4:12pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ckblv View Post
I AM middle class and I AM figuring in Sales Tax of 0775%.

But I am figuring it the fair way. On my TOTAL gross income before deductions.

If I make $50,000 a year gross and pay $5,000 in Fed income tax that is 10% tax to me.

Add 8% sales tax and, voila, 18%
State tax, not sales tax. If you made 50,000$, you would pay 4,481.25$ + 29% of the amount over 32,550$, which is 5,060.50. So your taxes in 2008 would be 9,542$, about 19%. With the state tax, you'd get 27 or 28%. And that isn't including any of the other various taxes, such as sales, property, etc etc. Or the amount deducted for social security and medicare, which are some of our biggest-ticket items.
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post #16 of 39
10/11/07 at 4:28pm
This is WWWAAAYYYYY over my head! I should learn more about taxes.
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post #17 of 39
10/11/07 at 5:21pm
Thread Starter 
I don't pay State Tax. And I also am not going to count the money I pay into Social Security as I plan on getting that back when I retire, so to me that is a retirement plan. And $5,000 of $50,000 is 10% and always will be.

There is no way my federal income tax is going to be $9,000 +. You are basing your figures on Adjusted gross and I am doing it the fair way and am basing it on total gross.
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post #18 of 39
10/11/07 at 6:42pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ckblv View Post
There is no way my federal income tax is going to be $9,000 +. You are basing your figures on Adjusted gross and I am doing it the fair way and am basing it on total gross.
I'm basing it on the tax rates for a single person making 50k. After all, I believed we were talking about hypotheticals and not doing your taxes.

We're way off topic, though. A great many middle class people DO pay nearly 30% in taxes, regardless of however you end up doing it.
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post #19 of 39
10/11/07 at 6:59pm
Thread Starter 
I AM single and I AM making $50,000 a year and I am NOT paying $9.000 +
for federal income tax and no, this isn't off topic. This is a thread on taxes.
There is no way someone making $50,000 a year is paying 30% in federal income tax, no way.
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post #20 of 39
10/11/07 at 8:20pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ckblv View Post
I AM single and I AM making $50,000 a year and I am NOT paying $9.000 +
for federal income tax and no, this isn't off topic. This is a thread on taxes.
There is no way someone making $50,000 a year is paying 30% in federal income tax, no way.
Fine, you're right. I'm sure I forgot an exemption somewhere.

Shall we return to the discussion of general taxes, instead of how they're calculated?
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post #21 of 39
10/12/07 at 7:44am
Quote:
Originally Posted by ckblv View Post
And I also am not going to count the money I pay into Social Security as I plan on getting that back when I retire, so to me that is a retirement plan.


Seriously? You seriously BELIEVE THAT?!?



Oh my, thanks for that giggle, I really needed it!
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post #22 of 39
10/12/07 at 7:47am
Quote:
Originally Posted by ckblv View Post
I AM single and I AM making $50,000 a year and I am NOT paying $9.000 +
for federal income tax and no, this isn't off topic. This is a thread on taxes.
There is no way someone making $50,000 a year is paying 30% in federal income tax, no way.
No, more like 23-25% Federal, depending on your bracket, then add in your state tax (how can you not pay state tax ) then add in the Medicaid, SS, etc, that puts the AVERAGE middle class taxpayer at approximately 30% of their income in taxes.

I don't know how you can manage to get away with paying only 10% with an income that high, there is something wrong there. You must not be claiming all your income.
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post #23 of 39
10/12/07 at 7:50am
Quote:
Originally Posted by ckblv View Post
Then get rich and it won't hurt YOU.
OK, you tell me EXACTLY how I am supposed to just "get rich" when I have no food in my fridge because I am paying close to $3 a gallon for gasoline, for heating oil, and my 6% raise that I got last year has been completely consumed by TAXES and the latest health care cost increase. I am actually now taking home LESS in my paycheck than I was last year at this time, BEFORE I got my raise.

Yeah... just "get rich," it's that simple.
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post #24 of 39
10/12/07 at 7:52am
Thread Starter 
Ginger, are you really trying to spin $5,000 out of $50,000 into MORE than 10%? Please tell me you aren't trying to change math now.

And, NO, I do NOT pay State Tax. I live in Nevada.

Are you really saying I am cheating on my taxes, because that is baloney.

I have one income from my job. That is it. Yes, I claim all my income.
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post #25 of 39
10/12/07 at 7:54am
Quote:
Originally Posted by ckblv View Post
Irregardless if the $$$ goes to the government in taxes or a charity it is money that the rich PAYS OUT.
My goodness would you begrudge the charity?
Who said that giving to charity is wrong? PLEASE stop putting words in my mouth.

I personally have chosen to give countless hours of my time and lots of my money to many charities - even if I go without as a result - because it is important to me to give of myself.

Rich people - not all, but SOME - only give to charities to get the deductions.

I have never itemized deductions in my life - I do NOT deduct the charitable contributions I make.
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post #26 of 39
10/12/07 at 7:56am
Thread Starter 
Oh, and don't forget Bush WANTED to reform Social Security but he was beat down on it by, you-know-who.

Personally, I believe that the cap should be taken OFF Social Security. Very simple solutlion. To simple for the stupid government.

And yes dear, I will get Social Security, I am old remember.
So laugh away at the poor old woman.
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post #27 of 39
10/12/07 at 7:59am
Quote:
Originally Posted by ckblv View Post
Ginger, are you really trying to spin $5,000 out of $50,000 into MORE than 10%? Please tell me you aren't trying to change math now.

And, NO, I do NOT pay State Tax. I live in Nevada.

Are you really saying I am cheating on my taxes, because that is baloney.

I have one income from my job. That is it. Yes, I claim all my income.
No, What I am saying is that if your income is 50K a year, you are in a much higher Federal tax bracket than 10%. Federal is national, and they don't change it based upon where you live. My salary is close to yours (not even that high,) and that puts me squarely in at a 23% Federal tax bracket.

Unless NV folks are so special that they only have to pay less than half of what they owe the Feds?

I'm done with this thread. You're always right and the rest of us are obviously using the wrong math to figure our taxes.

I wonder what the IRS would do to me if I only paid them 10%
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post #28 of 39
10/12/07 at 8:00am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by GingersMom View Post
Who said that giving to charity is wrong? PLEASE stop putting words in my mouth.

I personally have chosen to give countless hours of my time and lots of my money to many charities - even if I go without as a result - because it is important to me to give of myself.

Rich people - not all, but SOME - only give to charities to get the deductions.

I have never itemized deductions in my life - I do NOT deduct the charitable contributions I make.

Do you really think it matters one iota to the people in need that RECEIVE the help from charitable donations, WHY people give to charities?
My POINT is, it is money out of their pocket.

I have never itemized deductions in my life either, and I do NOT deduct charitable contributions either. That does NOT make me better than someone that does.
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post #29 of 39
10/12/07 at 8:09am
Thread Starter 
Yep, Nevadans are special, we don't pay state tax. Wanna move here?

You would save on your energy bill, you could all winter with no heat bills.
And the economy is GREAT here.
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post #30 of 39
10/12/07 at 11:25am
Could somebody please remind me what this thread is about?

If it continues in this vein, it will be closed as having gone completely off track.
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