Nutro vs. Iams food

sharky

TCS Member
Veteran
Joined
Jan 30, 2005
Messages
27,231
Purraise
38
Originally Posted by kitytize

I would choose Iams. Why because Iams foods do not contain gluten. And Iams still do not use gluten in their dry products.Taurine is still very high in these foods without any extra added. This means there is real meat in the product. It means that the protein listed is primarily from meat and not gluten or soy.

The corn in Iams is at minimum because the % of protein on the package is high. Corn isn't high in protein at around 9%. Compare this with other products that use corn or other grains and get the same or less taurine even with the taurine they add. Same for total protein. Look at the products getting the same or less protein with gluten listed in the ingredients. Gluten is 60-70% Protein.

Meat is high in all the Iams/Eukanuba products, because they do not add Taurine or gluten to any of them, and still get a respectable .16% taurine in the Iams/Eukanuba products and 34-36% protein.
The protein in Iams and Eukanuba is NOT QUALITY via MOST of us... BY products are YUK in my book in DRY no matter what and NO ONE tells EXACTLY what they are ... GLUTEN is in EVERY GRAIN.. ie says WHOLE grain IT CONTAINS GLUTEN...

Iams Kitten ingrediants
Ingredients
Chickengreat cept it losses 66% volume and wt thus is really the 5 to 6 th ingrdiant, Chicken By-Product Meal can be heads feet internal organs ( would be fine if % of what organ is listed) parts of blood , Corn GritsLIKELY make ups about 15 % of wt which increases to about 20% total wt since chicken losses 66% of total wt , Ground Whole Grain SorghumSUGAR grain , Chicken Fat (preserved with Mixed Tocopherols, a source of Vitamin E, and Citric Acid) can be a chemical pres , Corn MealMORE corn thou likely only about 7-9% of over all wt , Fish Meal (source of fish oil)GREAT but what fish ... could be goldfish, Dried Egg Product, Dried Beet Pulp (sugar removed), Natural Chicken Flavor, Potassium Chloride, Calcium Carbonate, Brewers Dried Yeast, DL-Methionine, Choline Chloride, Salt, way to high for my taste, used this high up as a flavor enhancer,Vitamin E Supplement, Zinc Oxide, Manganese Sulfate, Niacin, Ascorbic Acid, Vitamin A Acetate, Copper Sulfate, Calcium Pantothenate, Biotin, Rosemary Extract, Thiamine Mononitrate (source of vitamin B1), Pyridoxine Hydrochloride (source of vitamin B6), Vitamin B12 Supplement, Riboflavin Supplement (source of vitamin B2), Vitamin D3 Supplement, Inositol, Folic Acid, Potassium Iodide, Cobalt Carbonate

by comparesion
Nutro max which is designed toward GROCERY consumers
Ingredients
Chicken Meal NO mystery it is flesh and some bone with water and most fat removed , Corn Gluten Meal66% protein and 66-76 % digestable also aids in balencing for UTI health as does wheat in a smaller role ... corn grits or grd corn is 30-50 and low protein, Wheat Flourhigh allergen in some cats but second in digestabilty to rice, Poultry Fat (preserved with mixed Tocopherols, a source of Vitamin E) not chemically preserved, Ground Ricevery easily to digest , Natural Flavors, Beet Pulp, Lamb Mealsee chn meal sub in lamb, Rice Bran, Brewers Dried Yeast, Dried Egg Product, Potassium Chloride, Salttoo high for my taste is aiding in flavor , Choline Chloride, DL-Methionine, Taurine, Zinc Sulfate, Ferrous Sulfate, Vitamin E Supplement, Inositol, Niacin, Copper Sulfate, Ascorbic Acid (source of Vitamin C), Manganous Oxide, Riboflavin Supplement (source of Vitamin B2), Vitamin A Supplement, Calcium Pantothenate, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride (source of Vitamin B6), Vitamin D3 Supplement, Thiamine Mononitrate (source of Vitamin B1), Biotin, Calcium Iodate, Menadione Sodium Bisulfite Complex (source of Vitamin K activity), Folic Acid.
Nutro supports the safe, ethical and humane treatment of all animals.

one to one look
 

arlyn

TCS Member
Top Cat
Joined
May 9, 2005
Messages
9,306
Purraise
50
Location
Needles, CA
It's the grits that gets me.
I won't even eat grits anymore now that I know how they are processed.
 

javern

TCS Member
Alpha Cat
Joined
Apr 23, 2004
Messages
333
Purraise
1
Location
Iowa
The point was that Iams doesn't add refined gluten to its products. The stored proteins of corn and rice are sometimes called glutens, but their proteins differ importantly from wheat gluten by lacking glutenin which is a refined additive added to many pet foods.

Chicken meal is often used in dry cat food. The quality of the protein will depend on the type and amount of chicken meat in the mixture, as well as the amount of bone and connective tissue processed with the meat. Although somewhat better than chicken by-product meal, chicken meal is generally a lesser quality of protein source than chicken meat.

Originally Posted by sharky

The protein in Iams and Eukanuba is NOT QUALITY via MOST of us... BY products are YUK in my book in DRY no matter what and NO ONE tells EXACTLY what they are ... GLUTEN is in EVERY GRAIN.. ie says WHOLE grain IT CONTAINS GLUTEN...
 

kitytize

TCS Member
Top Cat
Joined
Dec 21, 2005
Messages
2,155
Purraise
2
*Good quality* digestible, by-products are a very definite high quality protein. Poultry by-product meal is 58.7% high quality, complete protein (as fed) And 62.8% protein on a dry basis. The Iams company has a very good, clean, tested source of by-products.

POULTRY BY PRODUCT MEAL: Consists of the ground dry or wet rendered clean parts
of the carcasses of slaughtered poultry such as heads, feet, undeveloped eggs,
and intestines exclusive of feathers except in such trace amounts as might occur
unavoidably in good factory practice.

These parts also contain valuable nutrients that are not found in muscle meat. Cats are carnivores. This is all good stuff for them. High quality by-products are loaded with nourishment.
 

sharky

TCS Member
Veteran
Joined
Jan 30, 2005
Messages
27,231
Purraise
38
Originally Posted by kitytize

*Good quality* digestible, by-products are a very definite high quality protein. Poultry by-product meal is 58.7% high quality, complete protein (as fed) And 62.8% protein on a dry basis. The Iams company has a very good, clean, tested source of by-products.

POULTRY BY PRODUCT MEAL: Consists of the ground dry or wet rendered clean parts
of the carcasses of slaughtered poultry such as heads, feet, undeveloped eggs,
and intestines exclusive of feathers except in such trace amounts as might occur
unavoidably in good factory practice.

These parts also contain valuable nutrients that are not found in muscle meat. Cats are carnivores. This is all good stuff for them. High quality by-products are loaded with nourishment.
CHICKEN meal is 81- 91% digestable ...lol.. chn by products are in the same digestability as corn
...


Javern ... Yes the % of bone is ?? able in meal , Most that I have called are willing to tell and it s often 10% ... chn vs meal well In DRY most will say meal since it it already got the water / fat removal before the baking or extrusion process
... chicken meal IS THE SAME meat from the chicken so that would be = if the same company was using it
... Yes rice and corn gluten are differnt in chemical make up than wheat , rye, barley and some debate oats.... BUT she said gluten free and ANY grain WHOLE has the gluten intact and it is not changed being the sinlge rather it has been dehulled with most of the starches( carbs removed)
 

kitytize

TCS Member
Top Cat
Joined
Dec 21, 2005
Messages
2,155
Purraise
2
Sharky where did you get your ingredient list for Iams Kitten? There is not citric acid listed on their site. Maybe they removed this ingredient?
 

sharky

TCS Member
Veteran
Joined
Jan 30, 2005
Messages
27,231
Purraise
38
Originally Posted by kitytize

Here is the link I used

http://us.iams.com/iams/en_US/jsp/IA...PL&productID=6




And I am in disagreement with this. Please explain more. My understanding is with cats there are only 2 protein sources higher in digestibility than poultry by products and this is chicken and egg.
Egg is 100%


Chicken and chicken meal are 81-91 % .. I use a range the upper is the standard but my own observations show not quite as much as the clincal studies...


Beef and beef meal 80-89%

Lamb and lamb meal 75-85%

egg product is about 80%

Salmon has varing report s of 50-80%

so you see by products are NOT a great digester
... the reason is the lack of consitancy ... see liver and heart even have different rates ... and head and ft are INDIGESTABLE


list via your link

Chicken, Chicken By-Product Meal, Corn Meal, Corn Grits, Chicken Fat (Preserved with mixed Tocopherols, a source of Vitamin E), Natural Chicken Flavor, Dried Egg Product, Dried Beet Pulp (Sugar Removed), Fish Oil (Preserved with mixed Tocopherols, a source of Vitamin E), Potassium Chloride, DL-Methionine, Brewers Dried Yeast, Calcium Carbonate, Salt, Choline Chloride, Vitamins (Vitamin E Supplement, Niacin, Ascorbic Acid, Vitamin A Acetate, Calcium Pantothenate, Biotin, Thiamine Mononitrate (Source of Vitamin B1), Pyridoxine Hydrochloride (Source of Vitamin B6), Vitamin B12 Supplement, Riboflavin Supplement (Source of Vitamin B2), Inositol, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Folic Acid), Minerals (Zinc Oxide, Manganese Sulfate, Copper Sulfate, Potassium Iodide, Cobalt Carbonate), Rosemary Extract

More corn .. corn grits and corn meal in AFFCO book are considered grd corn so this is double the same ingrediant that with the by products make this overall something similiar to grocery food ... corn likely by wt after cooking is about 40% since the chicken falls to fithe or sixth ...
 

moggiegirl

TCS Member
Alpha Cat
Joined
Sep 7, 2005
Messages
673
Purraise
130
Location
San Diego, CA
Well, my problem with Nutro is that not all the protein in the food comes from meat. Iams has all protein coming from animal sources but most of those sources are by-products. Not all by-products are bad but the term by-product does not tell you if the protein is coming from a quality source or not. I have no problem with heart and kidneys but you could be getting less nutritious sources and you have no way of knowing.

I think you have more choices available to you than just Nutro or Iams. If those were the only choices available to you then you might have a tough decision. But there are hundreds of brands on the market. Check into other brands, read the ingredients, check the nutrient analysis and pick the one you like.
 

Asteria

TCS Member
Top Cat
Joined
Jun 2, 2006
Messages
1,944
Purraise
16
I used to feed Iams. Since I learned about nutrition some more, I am absolutely not impressed with it. Not to mention my cats are thriving even more (when they were already seeming to do great).
I like food with whole, specific meat sources such as chicken or chicken meal, not byproducts. One thing about byproducts in pet food is that you don't know where it came from, especially when there's an inspecific source attached to it, such as "poultry" byproduct meal, or "meat" byproduct meal. It could be any animal.
I don't like Nutro much either, but would choose it over Iams.
 

sharky

TCS Member
Veteran
Joined
Jan 30, 2005
Messages
27,231
Purraise
38
Originally Posted by moggiegirl

Well, my problem with Nutro is that not all the protein in the food comes from meat. Iams has all protein coming from animal sources but most of those sources are by-products. Not all by-products are bad but the term by-product does not tell you if the protein is coming from a quality source or not. I have no problem with heart and kidneys but you could be getting less nutritious sources and you have no way of knowing.

I think you have more choices available to you than just Nutro or Iams. If those were the only choices available to you then you might have a tough decision. But there are hundreds of brands on the market. Check into other brands, read the ingredients, check the nutrient analysis and pick the one you like.
UMMM NO it doesnt ... any WHOLE grain includes the protein.... I would guess that 30-40% of the protein in Iams is coming form grain since TWO types of corn ( really one but for accuracy via labeling ) are the TRUE second and third ingrediants ... and the protein of the by products is likely low since the claimed digestability is ...
 

kitytize

TCS Member
Top Cat
Joined
Dec 21, 2005
Messages
2,155
Purraise
2
Originally Posted by sharky

UMMM NO it doesnt ... any WHOLE grain includes the protein.... I would guess that 30-40% of the protein in Iams is coming form grain since TWO types of corn ( really one but for accuracy via labeling ) are the TRUE second and third ingrediants ... and the protein of the by products is likely low since the claimed digestability is ...
Well then how do you explain this?

(This is from notes I have taken in the past)
The corn is at minimum because the % of protein on the package is high. Corn
isn't high in protein at around 9%. Compare this with other products that use
corn or other grains and get the same or less taurine even with the taurine they add. Same for total protein. Look at the products getting the same or less protein with gluten listed in the ingredients. Gluten is 60-70% Protein.

So is that wrong? Also the digestibility of chicken by products is still a tad higher than corn as you explained to me and much more nutritional than corn gluten. And don't forget the first ingredient is chicken not by products. So I guess basically I am asking if the majority of the protein in Iams is coming from corn where is all the taurine coming from when none is added? It has to be coming from animal as is the protein.
 

yosemite

TCS Member
Veteran
Joined
Apr 26, 2001
Messages
23,313
Purraise
81
Location
Ingersoll, ON
Originally Posted by Gemini_n_Hobbes

Don't Iams test their food on animals and end up killing most of them?

http://www.iamscruelty.com/
I think you'll find this is an OLD claim - several years back. I believe Iams has cleaned up their act and this is not at all relevant or correct and it would be better not to be distributing misinformation.
 

sharky

TCS Member
Veteran
Joined
Jan 30, 2005
Messages
27,231
Purraise
38
Originally Posted by kitytize

Well then how do you explain this?

(This is from notes I have taken in the past)
The corn is at minimum because the % of protein on the package is high. Corn
isn't high in protein at around 9%. Compare this with other products that use
corn or other grains and get the same or less taurine even with the taurine they add. Same for total protein. Look at the products getting the same or less protein with gluten listed in the ingredients. Gluten is 60-70% Protein.

So is that wrong? Also the digestibility of chicken by products is still a tad higher than corn as you explained to me and much more nutritional than corn gluten. And don't forget the first ingredient is chicken not by products. So I guess basically I am asking if the majority of the protein in Iams is coming from corn where is all the taurine coming from when none is added? It has to be coming from animal as is the protein.
I am guessing... see the chicken shrinks to fifth or sixth after cooking ( ingrediants as we see them are RAW, so after cooking chn by product is the main ingrediant.... yes HOPEFULLY it has the most protein( cant be sure since we dont know the make up ....

quick break down

fisrt ingrediant often 25% of total bag ... since this is chicken after cooking its wt is appr 8.5% using the wt loss of 66%

the second ingrediant is typically 20%

third 15-20%

fourth 10-15

In MANY formulas 90% of the total bag is the first six ingrediants ... So if the wt of three and fout is added together it out weighs the second ( first IMHO)... so protein would be roughly 18% ( using the 9% guide for corn)

guessing the by products at 60% protein plus 18 from corn = 78% protein from those sources ... so it is 18-35% protein overall coming from corn ... now if corn was the gluten and only the forth ingrediant it as I found in many formulas only contributes 2% overall protein if the main meat is a NON by product meat ( fill in named ) meal..

the taurine is likely from ORGANS in the by product mix ..
 
Top