Long distance relationship

Originally Posted by webchap

I totally agree with this guy. When a woman says to you "maybe" this mainly means "no." However it sounds better because it implies an element of possibility which in reality does not exist.

Women commonly use this sort of vague language in dating scenarios, its all part of the games that they play.

I know it is hard for you having the feelings for her. And i want you to know that while your feelings are a good thing, in terms of being with her in the future, they are stabbing you in the back right now!

how about this hypothetical scenario, she is dating another guy which she is not sure is going to work, so just in case she tells you "maybe" you and her can be in a relationship again, so she has a backup-option if things go wrong with the other guy.
you have to realise that you are worth more than this! otherwise nothing can save you!

go try some new hobbies you've always wondered about, meet new people, make yourself the source of your self esteem!


webchap

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Hi Webchap.

Well, as I said maybe I should shed more light on my story and on "who I am" and that will help you to better understand me.

My name is Arie, I'm 22 years old, and currently I'm not in United States. I'm a US citizen though but I got my citizenship through my dad.
I've been in the United States for the 1st time in my life only in this year, in March 2007 and the reason I came to the states was taking a vacation from what I do where I do it (no, it's not a job nor work, it's something else which right now I'd rather not tell anyone, maybe Anne, the admin, could know but I'm not sure she's reading my post so never mind)... there is a 2nd reason for myself being in US at March 2007 but I'll explain this later with my story.

I wanted to get a US citizenship because I knew it's important and I worked so hard to prove to the US embassy in my country that my father was living in the US. Actually, it was so hard for me to do so since he was born 1945 and I got some documents from schools but the embassy said any letter from school is void and it is basically nothing, because anyone could go and make up a letter.

Anyway, I did get some documents but it wasn't enough, so you know what I did? I simply said okay, let's try Yahoo Chat and that's what I did, I went into Yahoo chat, into the Jewish room because I'm myself a Jewish and I know there are lot of nice people there... so I simply asked "how do I prove my father was physically present in US?" and some people asked me "what do you mean" and bla bla, and I got a few PMs. One PM was from a lady about 40 yrs old, and she told me she would love to help me.
I did talk to this lady and we had a chat on the MSN and on the phone and I got to know her a little bit better, and guess what - she gave me addresses of local government offices in US and I sent letters to them and I got 1 day a package by mail with a lot of documents showing my father worked in the USPS for 11 years (he really did, in NY) and also letters showing he worked in other places and she also told me to ask for a transcript from the Census bureau to show his presence and basically that was enough for me to get my US citizenship.

So I told this lady I really must thank her and she said I should come and visit her and I also brought up this idea to come and visit her just as a "thank you", you know.
So that all happened around Septmeber 2005. Because of what I do again and where I was I couldn't see this lady before March 2007.

I kept in touch with this lady and during the time we talked ... guess what ... her daughter was also some times in the computer and we had some chats here and there, but I've never never ever felt something towards her daughter, never.

Only when I came for my first time into the states, I was first with my family in NY-NJ (got to know my dad's family for the first time, they're really nice) and I was basically for 2 weeks in US, so I thought to come just for the weekend to visit this lady and thank her for everything and I thought on Sunday to visit my uncle in California, but then - things have changed.

I asked her daughter, which is the gf I'm speaking about of course, if she wants to go to see a NBA game and she loved the idea... so when we met for the first time at March 2007, we saw the game... but again - I had no clue that things are going to change!
I've been with her for another day there (I came on Wed's evening and thought about leaving on Sunday) and on Saturday's evening we were together and then she expressed her feelings and I did it too... I wasn't so sure about it but I did see in her eyes or felt like she's the one. I canceled my trip to CA and stayed with her until the time I had to leave and it was more difficult for her when I left, I had less feelings towards her by the time then.

This is weird story, I know, and we did love each other so much.

I hope that maybe now you better understand me or see where I am.

I know today isn't March but I did came to see her again on April and we were together for a short time at the end of July, and I'm thinking how to move on and how to make things better.

The thing that I did that I had to do is gone, it will be gone next week and next week right away, right away when it's gone I'm taking my flight, I told her so, I so wanna see her, and now when she says things have changed - I don't know

Maybe now you got more points about it

Arie

Originally Posted by webchap

...When a woman says to you "maybe" this mainly means "no." ... Women commonly use this sort of vague language in dating scenarios, its all part of the games that they play....

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Webchap is partly right -- a lot of women do behave this way. But I have to stand up for the rest of my gender and say NOT ALL OF US.

There are honest women who say what they mean in a perfectly direct way, and would never think of trivializing a personal relationship by playing any kind of "game." There are women who respect the feelings of others, including men, and do not "use" people. There are women who have it in them to be both sensual fantasy and caring nurturer, fun-loving and heartfelt, challenging yet deeply loyal.

The trouble is, most men don't seem to be interested in women like that. Instead, they tend to fall for mindless, conscienceless Barbie-doll types who wouldn't know an ethic if it whacked them upside the head. Some of them even marry that type. And then they assume the worst of all women.

It's very disheartening to us "good girls."

Originally Posted by dauntingfire

She has made it VERY clear that you are not the most important to her any more and you have made it clear that she is the ONLY important thing. It's not balanced and the longer you hang on the more it will push her away.

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Usually when we were physically with each other she did like me... the only problem is when we're not being together, this is where things change.

I finally have the chance to be with her now and not leave her but it only happened now and I wonder how can I bring the things back to where they were, if it's possible anyway?

Arie, it's so good to hear more information about what is going on. It gives us a better idea of where you're coming from. I can tell you've had some very big things going on in your life recently so being in love on top of all of that can be very emotional.

I really wish you the best of luck. I know you're nervous but try to hang in there another week! You'll see her soon and maybe that will make a difference in your relationship. Maybe being able to see her every day will make things easier on both of you and you'll have less to worry about and she won't feel so distanced from you.

PS: Also, is your name Ariel? My boss's son is named Ariel. It means 'lion of god' if I remember correctly, it's one of my favorite Hebrew names.

Originally Posted by webchap

I totally agree with this guy. When a woman says to you "maybe" this mainly means "no." However it sounds better because it implies an element of possibility which in reality does not exist.

Women commonly use this sort of vague language in dating scenarios, its all part of the games that they play.

Click to expand...

Whole cultures say maybe when they really mean no, sometimes they even say yes when the reality is no. It is not about playing a game. It is about trying to be nice and not hurt other people's feelings or make them feel demeaned. So they go to great lengths to save face and not offend others. It isn't a game; it is their form of manners.

Many times women aren't playing games, they are just trying to be the nice person, when it is obvious their words mean so much. They feel some degree of responsibility not to crush feelings. It is called sympathy and empathy, not some game. But I don't think that makes it right, straightforward, open and honest is better in these of situations and makes for a better relationship in both the long and short term.

However, there is so very much more to communication than just a flat medium, such as the internet. It is helpful to see the body language too.

But I agree with you and could not have said it better, it sounds better because it implies an element of possibility which in reality does not exist.

Sorry, Arie, I was writing when you posted. Thank you for sharing some of your story with us! I'm glad this woman was able to help you establish your citizenship. But I'm not sure I understand what you're saying... do you mean that this woman especially wants you and her daughter to be together, and you feel obligated to her? Is that why it's so important to you to make it work?

I'm sorry if I'm dense... I just don't understand.

Originally Posted by arie85

Usually when we were physically with each other she did like me... the only problem is when we're not being together, this is where things change.

I finally have the chance to be with her now and not leave her but it only happened now and I wonder how can I bring the things back to where they were, if it's possible anyway?

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You have absolutely nothing to lose from trying. And you may regret not trying if you don't! You can never regret your actions if you do the best you can. I hated it when my husband (when we were engaged) moved an hour away. It made me resent him....I am sure she doesn't resent you, it sounds like she understands. Just give it a shot and try not to be nervous.

Hello Arie,

First of all I wanted to say how sorry I am that you have to go through this drama. It's no fun.

I've read all your posts and there are two things that reached out like a flashing beacon was this statement.

The first:

Originally Posted by arie85

just because of such a long time we haven't been together things have faded away and that is why we're in this kind of thing.

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When two people love each other, I mean truly love each other, It doesn't matter if there are planets between you. The love just doesn't fade. For you it obviously hasn't. But for her ... it has. Does this not say all that needs to be said to you? (Of course along with you making all the effort in the relationship)

I also was in a LD relationship with 6000 miles between us, and ended up marrying him, so I know ... trust me I know how hard it is to be away from her.
We talked at least once a day be in on messenger, or by video chat or phone.

I'm not saying this to be mean but her responses ... they .. to me .. sound like something an 18 year old would come out with. Like someone who is young and unsure of their life and just want to live it and not be tied down.

How would you feel just to go all that way .. just to find you are ignored and shunned because she just doesn't want that kind of relationship from you and you can't accept it. Because it's going to hurt a 1000 times worse face to face in front of people.

It's always hard loving someone when they don't love you back. Someone on this thread said
"If you love them, set them free, if they come back, it was meant to be"
No truer words have ever been spoken.

Once you have to start fighting to get answers to as if the other person loves you and truly wants to be with you, it's time you opened your eyes and looked hard and honestly at the situation.
Love is blind. All you have been doing is making excuses for her as to why she is like this, with out seeing WHY.

There is no crueler thing then to string someone along with hope when it's obvious the end result is just going to end in hurt.

The second thing that hit me:

Originally Posted by arie85

How can I convince her just over the phone that things could change? Is it possible?

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Hunny, why SHOULD you have to convince her. WHY are you trying to convince someone who is doing this to you?
You should not have to convince someone in to loving you or being with you.

How about sitting down and writing an email. Don't rush it. Take your time. Put in it how you truly feel. And tell her you what honest simple answers. Not the run around ones she is giving you.
With an email you can sit and plan what you want to say in a phonecall people get frustrated and forget to say things.
Also she can reread an email and truly think about things... she can't reread a phone call.

I hope things work out good for you.

Originally Posted by CarolPetunia

There are honest women who say what they mean in a perfectly direct way

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I strongly believe she is among this group.

Originally Posted by dauntingfire

Arie, it's so good to hear more information about what is going on. It gives us a better idea of where you're coming from.

I can tell you've had some very big things going on in your life recently so being in love on top of all of that can be very emotional.

I really wish you the best of luck. I know you're nervous but try to hang in there another week! You'll see her soon and maybe that will make a difference in your relationship. Maybe being able to see her every day will make things easier on both of you and you'll have less to worry about and she won't feel so distanced from you.

PS: Also, is your name Ariel? My boss's son is named Ariel. It means 'lion of god' if I remember correctly, it's one of my favorite Hebrew names.

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lol, thank you! I have to agree with you but what should I do until then??

When you say "hang in there" - what should I do while I'm waiting? should I call her or not make even a single telephone call?

My name is ARIE lol, not ARIEL - but I think my name means LION in Hebrew, yep

Originally Posted by CarolPetunia

Sorry, Arie, I was writing when you posted. Thank you for sharing some of your story with us! I'm glad this woman was able to help you establish your citizenship. But I'm not sure I understand what you're saying... do you mean that this woman especially wants you and her daughter to be together, and you feel obligated to her? Is that why it's so important to you to make it work?

I'm sorry if I'm dense... I just don't understand.

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Oh no lol, her mom is actually like me - we both didn't expect that me and her daughter would enter into a relationship. Only on April I did tell it to her but she's fine with it - and she's absolutely plays a neutral part in the whole thing.

This is me & her daughter, nothing related to her mom, really.

Originally Posted by Okuda

...You should not have to convince someone in to loving you or being with you.

How about sitting down and writing an email.... she can reread an email and truly think about things... she can't reread a phone call...

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Excellent points. Y'know, we all listen to love songs about how I'm nothing without you, and if you leave me I can't go on, and oh baby give me one more chance and so forth, and we think that's romantic... but in fact, it's terribly destructive. That's not how relationships are supposed to be at all!

And not only should you not have to convince someone to love you -- in fact, you can't. Love is or is not. Here's another song -- Bonnie Raitt got it right: "I can't make you love me if you don't; I can't make your heart feel what it won't." That's the truth.

And I agree that an email is a great idea. Lay it on the line and ask her to do the same. Don't fly thousands of miles to try to change her mind -- set her free. See if she comes back.

Originally Posted by Okuda

I'm not saying this to be mean but her responses ... they .. to me .. sound like something an 18 year old would come out with. Like someone who is young and unsure of their life and just want to live it and not be tied down.

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That's her age, or actually she's not even 18, she's like 17 and 3 months

I haven't brought up this little detail, and yes I know, I know... we're like 5 years difference (me 22 she 17) but I do love her

Hmm... is this little details changing the whole picture now likewise?

yes this detail changes a lot! Women at that sort of age 18-22+ are going through a time of self-discovery. She is not the woman she will become in 5-10 years time. Women this age are quite confused generally and are engaged in a process of calibrating their future personas.

extreme caution is advised!

basically my previous advice is even more valuable in this new light!


webchap

Originally Posted by webchap

yes this detail changes a lot! Women at that sort of age 18-22+ are going through a time of self-discovery. She is not the woman she will become in 5-10 years time. Women this age are quite confused generally and are engaged in a process of calibrating their future personas.

extreme caution is advised!

basically my previous advice is even more valuable in this new light!


webchap

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Now you make it better, thanks!

And I'm glad my details could help people to understand where I'm in... but I do appreciate more advices of course and to hear how to move on until next week

Honey I have been in the long distance thing... I know it hurts, but you must break it off. You don't deserve to feel this way in a relationship, what fun is it? You deserve to be happy and not wonder if your girlfriend cares about you and wants to see you. There is a girl out there who will. Long distance things are hard anyway. Good luck.

Originally Posted by arie85

Now you make it better, thanks!

And I'm glad my details could help people to understand where I'm in... but I do appreciate more advices of course and to hear how to move on until next week

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Oh for heavens sakes, besides the fact that I too am female, may I suggest you listen more to the women on this site, about women - of any age?

Women, like men, have different rates of maturing, are as individual as snowflakes, and you can't make any assumptions just based on age.

Originally Posted by Pat & Alix

Oh for heavens sakes, besides the fact that I too am female, may I suggest you listen more to the women on this site, about women - of any age?

Women, like men, have different rates of maturing, are as individual as snowflakes, and you can't make any assumptions just based on age.

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I'm not sure I got you... what do you want me or think I should do?

Originally Posted by arie85

I'm not sure I got you... what do you want me or think I should do?

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I was reacting to the post that said based on her age, she was xyz. I strongly disagreed with that

I already gave you my best advice. Look into your heart and who you are and decide what you can handle. If you can handle knowing that seeing her may not lead to the response/result you want, I'd go see her and deal with this in person. If it would hurt too much, I'd back off and let time give you the answer.

I've personally not had a lot of desire to go through this kind of "does he (in my case) or doesn't he" for very long. If I couldn't get a straight answer, I always chose to move on. But that's me. No one knows you or her here...you have to decide, based on who you are/what you want and can handle, and what you know of her, as to what is the best next move for you.

Originally Posted by Pat & Alix

I was reacting to the post that said based on her age, she was xyz. I strongly disagreed with that

I already gave you my best advice. Look into your heart and who you are and decide what you can handle. If you can handle knowing that seeing her may not lead to the response/result you want, I'd go see her and deal with this in person. If it would hurt too much, I'd back off and let time give you the answer.

I've personally not had a lot of desire to go through this kind of "does he (in my case) or doesn't he" for very long. If I couldn't get a straight answer, I always chose to move on. But that's me. No one knows you or her here...you have to decide, based on who you are/what you want and can handle, and what you know of her, as to what is the best next move for you.

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Well... let me put it this way

I have absolutely nothing to lose if I come to TX, I anyway run a website and I can use the local papers there or something for its promotion or whatever, or in other words do things from there which I cannot do from here... Also after what I'm done with right now, I feel like I need to go abroad a little bit, or who knows, maybe stay with my family in New Jersey, not sure about it.

Anyway my point is that I almost have no doubts regarding whether go there or not, and I don't just go to be with her although she's my main reason and I just can't stop thinking about her, even though I'm sure I'd change when I would see her. I think I'm living in a kind of obsession or something similar, and she's not, and that's why I'm like that.
I really don't know how to move forward and that is why I started this thread to get some advices what to do next.

Most people say to move on in life... well, my position right now is not her or other options. I was thinking about this occasion a very long time ago, and so is she, and there's gonna be a big event on Saturday, a day after I'm coming... so I don't know how else to say it - I really don't need other things in life right now, it's like drugs - what I need right now is to know what do with her, even if it's a part of obsession it'd be hard for me to drop it like that. I'm a part of it right now, I don't think not-coming is a good solution whatsoever.