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Expiration date on Marriages? - Page 2

post #31 of 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shorty14788 View Post

I dont think marriage has an expiration date. I think peoples willingness to try does...
You made a lot of other really good points but, this is the one I actually have a response to... I think you're right. I think marriage should be for life, but I also think that there are a lot of people who get into marriages where it was the wrong decision, and the level of people's willingness to make it work also depends on how big of a mistake it was. I mean, one person may be willing and the other may not. And there are some differences that I think are just not possible to overcome (also partially based on how willing you are to work on it, and how hard you work at it).

Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldenKitty45 View Post
Marriage for Life is NOT a prison sentence IF you are with the right person and you both want to put 100% into the marriage. DH and i learned our lessons the hard way from the 1st marriages (abuse/cheating).

Too many people don't think about what makes a marriage work. They figure things will just "work out", and sadly find out they don't.
I agree with that. And part of the problem these days is .. people *don't* think about it. People don't put as much time into it *before* they get married. But it can be a prison sentence if you're one of those people that didn't put enough thought into it before you did the deed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Catnip View Post
There was a lot of talk about this yesterday on a local radio show. I'm aware divorce can be very messy and painful and the expiration date would save a lot of this, but aside from that I really don't agree with the concept.

I'm not married but I live with my boyfriend and I know when we say 'I do' I'll mean it for life. Things change so it may not be forever, we never can know that, but the important thing is we're willing to commit for life.

People give up on marriage too easily nowadays. When things don't go the way they want, they give up. Obviously there are other reasons like abuse where it's important to get out straight away, but for the most part people don't seem to give the same commitment as our parents' generation did.
Well, there are a couple of points on this one.. I think people's perception of it often has a lot to do with their religion, so I think a lot of that ties in. Obviously not everyone is going ot have the same opinion on marriage and divorce.

That being said though, to address your second point, people *do* change. You're not the same person when you say I do at the age of 20 something as you are when you're 50 something and still married. Saying I do and meaning it for life, means you have to deal with the changes. If you mean it when you say I do and your faith dictates that you stay with the marriage even though you've grown far apart because of how you've changed.. that's sort of how it goes.

I think people don't give this the same commitment, or people give it the commitment because they don't want to lose everything they've worked for thus far, which is the *wrong* reason. But, you know, if you're in a marriage where it's not working, you're sleeping in seperate beds, and it's gotten to the point where your partner is no longer a friend and companion and life together is miserable, why the *heck* would you stay in it? I don't think when you say "I do" that you're saying I should stay with you even if I'm miserable in the relationship 10 years from now. I think you're saying, I do take you now, and I promise to work on the problems we're *going* to encounter down the road and I expect you to do the same. You obviously have to work on getting through the tough times, but if you've done everything you can and it just can't be worked out, you're either looking at a seperation, or you're looking at a miserable "rest of your life".

There are, however, far too many people that just don't even try, or only give a half-hearted effort to work it out. There are too many people that are too willing to be swept off their feet by some passing stranger so get involved in an affair that really destroys any possible recovery from it.

Well, anyway, before I get carried too far off in my rambling, those are my basic points.
post #32 of 55
OK, I have another thought/question about marriage. If it's such to be such a WONDERFUL thing, (which in my experience it has not been, and in the experiences of everyone I have met in life it hasn't been, either) why would you have to WORK at it? If it's so great, and so right, you would think that a good marriage, and happiness, would just come naturally.

I come from a family of 6 kids, and all but one of us has been married and divorced. The one sibling who has not been divorced has a miserable marriage. She stays because of the security, and he stays in it because he doesn't want to get whiped out in alimony payments, like he was in his first marriage. So they stay married, while he sits home, she goes out and cheats on him, and he just pretends like it's not happening.

My parents may have loved each other when they first got married, but as the years went on, they could barely stand each other, but they stayed married, were both unhappy and miserable until death did they part.

All of my friends have been either married or divorced a couple of times, and if they haven't been, they are about to get divorced. I haven't seen one truly happy marriage in my life. My happiest friends are the friends who have never been married at all.

I like the idea of an expiration date, because then at least you can end it without all of the ugliness that goes with a divorce, and if you want to stay married you have that option, too.
post #33 of 55
Yep, I think it's a good idea to have a choice. I honestly don't think it's a bad idea to have a trial period..for lack of a better term.. An idealistic marriage is a rare thing. As nice as that thought it, it is rarely seen these days, and honestly, even though people stayed together, a "happy" lifetime of marriage is also somewhat rare. While I've known people who have been together and companiable for years, there are very few people who have lifetime marriages that are still sharing a bed, still doing things together and still be an active couple.

I guess it somewhat depends on what your idea of a successful marriage is. If the only definition of that is it doesn't end in divorce, then I guess there is a higher number of successes than I consider there to be (admittedly, though, still a small number).
post #34 of 55
I've seen some good questions, would love to see us talk about them.

what is your idea of a good or successful marriage?

Why would one have to work on a marriage if marriage is a good thing?

I'll go first <G>.

My idea of a successful marriage is one where each supports the other - re growth as a person, difficult times (i.e. work/career issues that may be difficult for your partner's self esteem), illness (my husband's support while I can't drive with this knee has been incredible, if not for him I don't know if I could have continued my business), where you are truly each other's friend, that it should be nurturing, forgiving, patient, and kind.

Why would someone have to work on a marriage? Because people do change, and because we are still each living our individual life, and events happen that may scar us, be it a physical or emotional scar.

I believe that marriage is also what the couple makes it, how they define it and no one should dictate what makes a successful marriage...it is what the couple makes it.

hope the above makes sense, I was a night owl and up until 2.30 am and am still waking up with my cup of coffee ;-)
post #35 of 55
This whole "Pauli proposal" was stolen from a German cabaret performer named Frank-Markus Barwasser, aka "Erwin Pelzig". He first used it in a radio sketch in 2004. Pauli admitted it yesterday.

Gabriele Pauli is an attention hog who will say or do just about anything in order to see or hear her name in the media.
post #36 of 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by jcat View Post
This whole "Pauli proposal" was stolen from a German cabaret performer named Frank-Markus Barwasser, aka "Erwin Pelzig". He first used it in a radio sketch in 2004. Pauli admitted it yesterday.

Gabriele Pauli is an attention hog who will say or do just about anything in order to see or hear her name in the media.
I won't disagree with that, but I think it still is an idea that merits consideration. Regardless of that, though, I think it's been an interesting discussion. Hehe, perhaps Pauli wouldn't be thrilled that we weren't actually paying attention to her, though.
post #37 of 55
I think it's ironic that the expiration date of 7 yrs coincides with the old "7 year itch" theory!
post #38 of 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by HopeHacker View Post
OK, I have another thought/question about marriage. If it's such to be such a WONDERFUL thing, (which in my experience it has not been, and in the experiences of everyone I have met in life it hasn't been, either) why would you have to WORK at it? If it's so great, and so right, you would think that a good marriage, and happiness, would just come naturally.

I come from a family of 6 kids, and all but one of us has been married and divorced. The one sibling who has not been divorced has a miserable marriage. She stays because of the security, and he stays in it because he doesn't want to get whiped out in alimony payments, like he was in his first marriage. So they stay married, while he sits home, she goes out and cheats on him, and he just pretends like it's not happening.

My parents may have loved each other when they first got married, but as the years went on, they could barely stand each other, but they stayed married, were both unhappy and miserable until death did they part.

All of my friends have been either married or divorced a couple of times, and if they haven't been, they are about to get divorced. I haven't seen one truly happy marriage in my life. My happiest friends are the friends who have never been married at all.

I like the idea of an expiration date, because then at least you can end it without all of the ugliness that goes with a divorce, and if you want to stay married you have that option, too.
I think that having a person who has zero good experiences with marriage decide the rules of marriage is like having someone who never met a cat he liked decide whether people should have pet cats. You are certainly entitled to your opinion about marriage. And you are free to never marry, and even to advise people not to marry.

Tuesday will be my 15th anniversary of my marriage. The idea of an expiration date is preposterous to me. My husband is a part of my life and my family. The idea of considering if we should stay together is like me considering if I should give my 8 y/o son up for adoption, or get rid of my 10 y/o dog because she sheds too much. We are a family, and while every day is not roses, we are together and plan to stay that way.

You work at a marriage like you work at any relationship. That means that just because I'm feeling PMSy and cranky, I don't take my mood out on my hubby. Like any close friendship or family, two different people will have some ups and downs. Every relationship has cycles of some sort. Sometimes you have to look at the big picture. Remember the Billy Joel song "You might love somebody for the rest of your life, but you won't like them everyday. Ain't no crime....just human nature happens all the time."

My first marriage was not so good, and my ex was a control freak. Having an expiration date on that marriage would simply have given him something to rattle me with. It would not have helped the marriage or the end of the marriage.

I think the idea of and expiration date on marriage is preposterous.
post #39 of 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by HopeHacker View Post
OK, I have another thought/question about marriage. If it's such to be such a WONDERFUL thing, (which in my experience it has not been, and in the experiences of everyone I have met in life it hasn't been, either) why would you have to WORK at it? If it's so great, and so right, you would think that a good marriage, and happiness, would just come naturally.

I come from a family of 6 kids, and all but one of us has been married and divorced. The one sibling who has not been divorced has a miserable marriage. She stays because of the security, and he stays in it because he doesn't want to get whiped out in alimony payments, like he was in his first marriage. So they stay married, while he sits home, she goes out and cheats on him, and he just pretends like it's not happening.

My parents may have loved each other when they first got married, but as the years went on, they could barely stand each other, but they stayed married, were both unhappy and miserable until death did they part.

All of my friends have been either married or divorced a couple of times, and if they haven't been, they are about to get divorced. I haven't seen one truly happy marriage in my life. My happiest friends are the friends who have never been married at all.

I like the idea of an expiration date, because then at least you can end it without all of the ugliness that goes with a divorce, and if you want to stay married you have that option, too.
Staying is always an option, just as leaving is, no date is needed, the option is always there. I feel it is beyond stupid to put the expiration date on it, how annoying to have more paperwork when I want to stay married, I did say until death do us part.

Your experiences have been different from mine. My parents have always been together. Their relationship was very happy and I grew up knowing what a stable loving relationship was about. My grandparents were married over 60 years. In my extended family & friends, most are happily married.
My husband's parents have been/are the same, very much in love and together and so were his grandparents when they were alive.

I am married and am very happy. We are naturally compatible and are best friends, have been for many years. 7 years of being together came and went as quickly as the first day we met, we are still very much in love.

Our relationship works. I know not everyone likes the commitment of marriage. Our society is very “me” and “now” and convenience seems to be the way to go for many, faster, bigger, better, quicker.

I think when people say you must WORK at it, it is like anything else that has great rewards, for instance, raising a puppy, kitten, or a child, getting a college degree, it isn't all easy every single day, it is work, a work in progress.
But it is SO worth it. You have good days and better days (could be them, could be you & your moods and life situation, life isn't always fair or easy) but you know this is what you want to be doing. Just my three cents.
post #40 of 55
Hummm No Way...
post #41 of 55
I do think how high the divorce rate is, has to do with people rushing into marriage without thinking it through. A friend of mine, was married within 6 months of meeting this guy... Surprise... that marriage lasted a month.

My husband and I put a lot of thought into getting married. We dated for a year and a half before he proposed. Then, we lived together for another year before getting married. I personally think you should live together before deciding to get married. Living together really shows what one another are like on a daily basis. That way your not surprised when you get married and realize "well he doesn't help out around the house as much as I would of liked" or something to that effect.

The reason marriages need to be worked on, is because people change. Also, after being married for a while, you know every little story they have to tell, every little quirk, what they're going to say before they ever even say it. And... that can cause things to grow quiet. You stop talking because you have run out of interesting things to say to one another. The only conversation you can come up with is "how was your day?" Thats why marriages need to be worked on. People need to find more effective and better ways to communicate.

Therapists aren't lying when they say "its all about communication"!!!

There have been SOOOOO many arguements that could have been avoided if my husband and I had communicated better. Instead I would hear "well I thought you would have known", or "I could have swore I told you" or.... "I did tell you.".. "Did I respond when you told me?".. "No!".. "Well, thats because I didn't hear you."

My points being.... communicate with one another, learn to change and accept others changes as well, and be willing to work on things. Because if you really love that person, you should be willing to work on you relationship.
post #42 of 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by lookingglass View Post
I like this idea, although I have a feeling that some people will hate it with a passion. (ie "family values" groups).
Marriage licenses are optional; since you don't have to ever get one in the first place, it makes no sense to have it expire.

I'm not part of that group, but why punish the people who have a marriage that is working by making them renew their license (which will include a fee, no doubt)? We all already have to renew our passports, driver's licenses, car insurances, home insurances, professional licenses, etc. etc.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Natalie_ca View Post
The mess of a divorce is the division of assets, that would still be an issue and require lawyers and courts, and mega bucks to sort out just like it does now.
Exactly! People stay in bad marriages because of convenience. Just because their marriage license expires doesn't mean they automatically have separate places to live, an arrangement for custody of kids and pets, and an agreeable division of property. A license expiring will mean nothing if the couple doesn't instigate change.

And people who want a divorce will do it when they want, and not wait out seven, or fourteen years for their license to expire.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lookingglass View Post
I'm going to put some thing out there, who said marriage had to last a life time?
The people who are getting married are the ones who expect it to last a lifetime. If they don't, they should reconsider getting married.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HopeHacker View Post
OK, I have another thought/question about marriage. If it's such to be such a WONDERFUL thing, (which in my experience it has not been, and in the experiences of everyone I have met in life it hasn't been, either) why would you have to WORK at it? If it's so great, and so right, you would think that a good marriage, and happiness, would just come naturally.
I can't speak for others but it does come naturally for my husband and I. He's my love and my best friend, and he feels the same way. In over 16 years together (12 married) we have have three disagreements that weren't even arguments.

It's human nature to start taking people for granted, and you don't want to do that, but that's something to "work on" in any close relationship.

Quote:
Originally Posted by taterbug View Post
I think it's ironic that the expiration date of 7 yrs coincides with the old "7 year itch" theory!
That's actually a Marilyn Monroe movie ; the majority of marriages that end in divorce do so after four years.

Gabriele Pauli is looking for publicity. What a crack idea.
post #43 of 55
Hope,

Yes it can be a wonderful thing but like all good things, there is the "background" work involved.

You really can't expect things to be wonderful all the time - that's a fantasy. We all go thru good and bad times. But being with the right person and both helping each other thru those bad times takes work and committment.

Too many people throw in the towel and walk away - they don't try. We live in a "throw away" society now - everything is geared to instant satisfaction and if its not the way YOU want it to be - just toss it out and find something new that makes you happy. Don't try to keep and fix what is wrong.

When you have a concept of "throw away" marriage, you can see why it really does take committment and work to keep the marriage and not throw it away.

Take a look at celebrities - many of them are "so happy and committed" today - but 2 months later, a year later, those "happy commited people" are in the divorce room fighting over money/custody. They have no real committement - its all an "act" to gain attention. How many REALLY long committed celebrity marriages are out there - very few. The ones that survived, did so by WORKING at the marriage thru good and bad times.
post #44 of 55
Personally, I think it would just be a cash grab, like all the other licenses that need to be renewed and would cause problems in benefits and joint bank accounts and the like (health, pensions, life insurance, joint homeowners etc) etc if the paperwork didn't come in time etc.

Someone at work the other day was talking about the notion of marriage until death do you part, and said (she admitted it was stolen from a movie but couldn't remember which one) that marriage has become more like 'until it feels like forever' instead of forever. I think this is true and the marriage license expiring will still mean the mess of divorce in deciding who gets what etc so is completely pointless.
post #45 of 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by lookingglass View Post
I'm going to put some thing out there, who said marriage had to last a life time?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lore View Post
I agree... people change... things happen... NO ONE should EVER feel STUCK.
I couldn't agree more

It's ok people saying " you should work at it, divorce shouldn't happen" blah blah blah, but if the sparks no longer there anymore and one or both parties don't want to try and work it out then it's pointless staying in a rut for the rest of your life.

It's true what they say "Getting married is easy, it's making it work that's the hardest part"
post #46 of 55
All I have to say is that as a newleywed this idea makes me VERY sad! My marriage is a joint comitment to do everything in our power to keep that spark alive for as long as possible. Idealy that would be the remainder of our lives but we are always negotiating and talking so should one of us become complacent in the relationship it won't come as a surprise.
post #47 of 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beckiboo View Post
I think that having a person who has zero good experiences with marriage decide the rules of marriage is like having someone who never met a cat he liked decide whether people should have pet cats. You are certainly entitled to your opinion about marriage. And you are free to never marry, and even to advise people not to marry.

Tuesday will be my 15th anniversary of my marriage. The idea of an expiration date is preposterous to me. My husband is a part of my life and my family. The idea of considering if we should stay together is like me considering if I should give my 8 y/o son up for adoption, or get rid of my 10 y/o dog because she sheds too much. We are a family, and while every day is not roses, we are together and plan to stay that way.

You work at a marriage like you work at any relationship. That means that just because I'm feeling PMSy and cranky, I don't take my mood out on my hubby. Like any close friendship or family, two different people will have some ups and downs. Every relationship has cycles of some sort. Sometimes you have to look at the big picture. Remember the Billy Joel song "You might love somebody for the rest of your life, but you won't like them everyday. Ain't no crime....just human nature happens all the time."

My first marriage was not so good, and my ex was a control freak. Having an expiration date on that marriage would simply have given him something to rattle me with. It would not have helped the marriage or the end of the marriage.

I think the idea of and expiration date on marriage is preposterous.
Very VERY well said. My husband is the man I prayed for when I was a little girl. Marrying him is the best decision I have ever made. I can't describe how much I love him. We are family for life.
post #48 of 55
What in the heck... so you have to get remarried every 7 years or what?

I hate divorce, and my soon-to-be DH knows that when he marries me it's for LIFE. You work through your problems, you don't just throw in the towel. That's MHO. I understand some people cheat or go crazy... but if you're just having general problems, or stresses, like a lot of failed marriages do, you need counseling!
post #49 of 55
I get my marriage values from my parents, and my religion. DH and I are in agreement that when we got married, it was for life. We dated nearly 3.5 years before our wedding day, a decision we made consciously, because we wanted to be SURE that we wanted to be together for life. We wanted to wait until the "in love" period was subsiding and true respect and affirmation took its place (happens at different times for everyone).

Our religion states clearly that marriage is a life-long commitment.

As for the "making it work" thing...we're human. We have mood swings, we change, we grow, and unless you make an effort to grow TOGETHER, you'll grow apart. We are not unconditional beings. We makes decisions that are subjective, and we tend to be selfish. We have to work at a marriage because of our human nature.


BTW, I think the entire idea of expiration is a bit ridiculous, but if that's what the majority of that country wants, *shrug*. I'd just be sure to renew in time.
post #50 of 55
Consider this scenario: The Jones's expiration date is soon and they want to renew. Mrs. Jones is not covered by insurance at her work. Her husband covers her through his work. She has an serious accident and is in ICU for weeks. Mr Jones doesn't keep up on the due date, and their marriage expires. Would her health insurance be discontinued?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hopehacker
When you people say "Marriage is for Life", it makes me sad. It makes it sound like a Prison Sentance than something you do, because you WANT to stay with someone. It's like you're SENTANCED to stay with someone. I kind of like the idea, of a nice EASY way out of something you are miserable being in.
Hope, sorry that you haven't had the experience of wanting to share your whole life with someone. My first marriage was more of what you described. He was an abusive control freak. I was sad thinking about spending the rest of my life with him. I was miserable. 7 years would have been too long!

My life is so totally different now. I feel so blessed just to wake up in the morning next to my husband. I look forward to seeing him after work. I enjoy doing things for him. We are not "just" husband & wife. We are family. I really hope that you can be as happy as we are someday.
post #51 of 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rockcat View Post
Consider this scenario: The Jones's expiration date is soon and they want to renew. Mrs. Jones is not covered by insurance at her work. Her husband covers her through his work. She has an serious accident and is in ICU for weeks. Mr Jones doesn't keep up on the due date, and their marriage expires. Would her health insurance be discontinued?


Hope, sorry that you haven't had the experience of wanting to share your whole life with someone. My first marriage was more of what you described. He was an abusive control freak. I was sad thinking about spending the rest of my life with him. I was miserable. 7 years would have been too long!

My life is so totally different now. I feel so blessed just to wake up in the morning next to my husband. I look forward to seeing him after work. I enjoy doing things for him. We are not "just" husband & wife. We are family. I really hope that you can be as happy as we are someday.

Not in Germany! They have nationalized health care, so it won't matter if they renew or not.
post #52 of 55
I really don't like the idea of my marriage not being for life. Why get married if you go into in thinking "hey just 7 more years". I think she is taking her bad experience out in this law. I plan on being with my husband for a long, long time, not a measly 7 years.

I think anyone who is married is going to take offense to this, not just "family groups", as someone suggested.
post #53 of 55
Thread Starter 
Wow cool! So many interesting points of views on this! I'm still borderline this, but it seems that the people that have had past marriages that ended in divorce are in favor. I can see why. If you're in a bad marriage then 7 years can still be a long time to wait to get out.



Quote:
Originally Posted by eburgess View Post
I really don't like the idea of my marriage not being for life. Why get married if you go into in thinking "hey just 7 more years". I think she is taking her bad experience out in this law. I plan on being with my husband for a long, long time, not a measly 7 years.

I think anyone who is married is going to take offense to this, not just "family groups", as someone suggested.
However, to counteract with this thought, if you're HAPPILY married why would you think "Hey just 7 more years"? IMO if this law were to pass in the US (even though its talking about Germany) you can have a new wedding and new anniversary! Perhaps you didn't have the wedding you two dreamed of...so 7 years later you get the wedding of your dreams

I think it could be easily remedied if options were given: sign for the marriage to last until death do us part or the 7 year thing.
post #54 of 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by lunasmom View Post
However, to counteract with this thought, if you're HAPPILY married why would you think "Hey just 7 more years"? IMO if this law were to pass in the US (even though its talking about Germany) you can have a new wedding and new anniversary! Perhaps you didn't have the wedding you two dreamed of...so 7 years later you get the wedding of your dreams
haha The wedding industry may support it. haha.
post #55 of 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rockcat View Post
I feel so blessed just to wake up in the morning next to my husband. I look forward to seeing him after work. I enjoy doing things for him. We are not "just" husband & wife. We are family. I really hope that you can be as happy as we are someday.
I agree, it is a wonderful place to be, so much so that words in our English language can't describe adequately or deeply enough. It is one of the things I am most thankful for - such a close, loving, comfortable, fun, & supportive relationship during the years, a real connection for life, during this life, and through this life. The 7 year thing just insults our relationship IMO, 7 years have come and gone, we are still together and wouldn't have it any other way, same for many happy couples I know. Why bother with more paperwork, I already have enough of that
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