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Bengal: Growing up seal lynx marble - Page 2

post #31 of 58
I did some research into the snow bengal pattern because I was curious about why they're only split into two categories in the UK while there are three in the States.

Basically the snow bengals are pointed. There are two genes that can give a pointed effect.

There's the siamese gene, which well siamese cats have and give lots of contrast between point and body and the body can be very pale. It's recessive so you need two of those to get that pattern.

Then there's the burmese gene which has a lot less contrast and the body is quite dark. Also a recessive gene.

Then there's tonkinese which is a cat with one siamese type pointed gene and one burmese type pointed gene and looks something between the two.

A cat with two copies of the siamese pointed gene will always have blue eyes.

Lynx point = two siamese pointed genes,
Mink = one burmese type and one siamese
Sepia = two burmese type genes

The eye colour can vary in the Mink and Sepias and go from aqua to gold and green. (Aqua only in the minks since that's the tonkinese type colour).

In the UK they decided it was too hard to tell between cats that were Mink and Sepia, especially since when the kittens are registered it's not clear which is which since it takes time for the pattern to come in properly. The lynx points are easy to pick out because they're born all white (or with very faint markings) and always have blue eyes.

So they split the snows into blue eyed snow and any other coloured eyed snow to make it easier to register the kittens.

The bengal pattern is of course overlaid on top of the pointed colouring and the spots will be darkest on the Sepias and lightest on the Lynx point since the lynx's have the palest body colour.
post #32 of 58
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by snosrap5 View Post
So the Melanistic is all black, no shadow spots at all? Do they have black paws and a black nose? Can they be shown?
Melanistics do have spots and they can be seen best in sunlight when viewing the cat at an angle. I'm not positive on the paw pads and nose leather, but the ones I've seen were all black.

I'm pretty sure the UFO is allowing this color of bengal to be shown in championship. TICA is allowing preliminary new breed trait showing. There was a melanistic at the St Petersburg show. They aren't allowed in regular competition yet.
post #33 of 58
She is beautiful I love her eyes and her color is stunning. She is going to be a stunning cat as she grows. Thank you for sharing.
post #34 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sailfish View Post
I think you helped me out a lot here. The Eyes! I'll post one more shot. (embarrassing) so you can see her body color. We never filed her papers or any other of our cats. Never saw a need to.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...rma/OHND-1.jpg

From this picture, she looks like a brown spotted Bengal to me. Much the same colour as my Simba. She is quite beautiful, and has lovely rosettes. Or am I looking at Beau? I'm looking at the cat on the left.
post #35 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by snosrap5 View Post
So the Melanistic is all black, no shadow spots at all? Do they have black paws and a black nose? Can they be shown?
If you want to see some cool pictures of Melanistic Bengals go to this site: They have a lot of unique and cool Bengal's as well as an F1 Bengal.


http://www.purr-fectsavannahs.com/pu...rifemales.html


Here's another link to the Melanitic Bengal. Pictures are a little small and not quite as clear, but it gives you and idea.

http://www.simplysimesbengals.com/si...melanistic.htm
post #36 of 58
Wow they are cool looking

They kinda remind me of smoke EM's cause its hard to see the spotting on some. Others are really nice contrast.

But you have to remember that the black jaguars (black panters) have spotting too. And almost every black cat/kitten I've seen you can see some kind of tabby markings as a baby or in the right sunlight.
post #37 of 58
Do you have any photos of adult seal lynx marble bengals? I've never seen one so I'd be interested to see the possible "end product".
post #38 of 58
Kai Bengals!

I have a question. What pattern is the bengal in your avatar? Her/His eyes look green. From reading this thread, I now see that's possible for a bengal to have green eyes. I thought they only had gold/copper. Learned some new things today.

Anyways he/she is gorgeous!
post #39 of 58
It's very common for Bengal's to have green eyes. Both of my Bengals have green eyes. In my signature, Simba's eyes look more yellow, but believe me, they're green.
post #40 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by HopeHacker View Post
It's very common for Bengal's to have green eyes. Both of my Bengals have green eyes. In my signature, Simba's eyes look more yellow, but believe me, they're green.
wow!!!

I bet Simba is even more beautiful in person than he already looks in your signature picture then!

I really love green and blue eyes.
post #41 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kai Bengals View Post
Loki is her father, her mother is Kenya. They are both brown spotted, but carry for snow (seal). Out of the litter of six, she is the only snow bengal.

All seal lynx point bengals have blue eyes, so her eyes will remain blue, unless she fools us and is really a seal mink. In a perfect world, if she were seal mink her eyes would have turned green already. So, I'm pretty confident she is a seal lynx.

I'm pretty sure that, unless you are mistaken about which form of the albino (tyrosinase) gene the parents are carrying, any kitten from that particular pairing can only be color point (lynx), not sepia or mink (as all occur at the same genetic locus). As each of the parents is normally colored, they are heterozygous for whichever albino gene they are carrying and only carry one copy of it. That means that each kitten can have one of four combinations, homozygous normal, heterozygous normal carrying the father's albino copy, heterozygous normal carrying the mother's albino copy, and homozygous albino (with one copy of whatever mom has, and one copy of whatever dad has). So if both parents carry lynx, every albino kitten MUST be lynx. If both carry sepia, every albino kitten MUST be sepia. And last, if they carry a mix and match of lynx and sepia, every albino kitten MUST be seal.

If you were unsure about what the parents were carrying, you should know for sure now (at least down to what the pair carry collectively).
post #42 of 58
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Catfur View Post
I'm pretty sure that, unless you are mistaken about which form of the albino (tyrosinase) gene the parents are carrying, any kitten from that particular pairing can only be color point (lynx), not sepia or mink (as all occur at the same genetic locus). As each of the parents is normally colored, they are heterozygous for whichever albino gene they are carrying and only carry one copy of it. That means that each kitten can have one of four combinations, homozygous normal, heterozygous normal carrying the father's albino copy, heterozygous normal carrying the mother's albino copy, and homozygous albino (with one copy of whatever mom has, and one copy of whatever dad has). So if both parents carry lynx, every albino kitten MUST be lynx. If both carry sepia, every albino kitten MUST be sepia. And last, if they carry a mix and match of lynx and sepia, every albino kitten MUST be seal.

If you were unsure about what the parents were carrying, you should know for sure now (at least down to what the pair carry collectively).
Please do some research on the bengal breed. All "snow" bengals are referred to as "Seal", with variations being lynx, mink and sepia. They are not albinos! I have had several same pairings (not this pair), that have produced seal lynx and seal mink in the same litter or subsequent litters, along with all other siblings being brown.
I.E My stud boy, arctic cowboy is a seal mink, his littermate sister is a seal lynx. The rest of the litter was brown spotted.

I think you're confused about bengal cat color terminology.
post #43 of 58
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lioness View Post
Kai Bengals!

I have a question. What pattern is the bengal in your avatar? Her/His eyes look green. From reading this thread, I now see that's possible for a bengal to have green eyes. I thought they only had gold/copper. Learned some new things today.

Anyways he/she is gorgeous!
Thanks! My avatar is of "rodeo", aka Arctic Cowboy. He is a spotted seal mink.
post #44 of 58
The pointed gene is a version of albino so I think that's what she was referring to.

As for getting seal lynx and seal mink in the same litter, that should be possible while getting seal lynx and seal sepia in the same litter is impossible.

Getting seal lynx and seal mink only works if atleast one of the parents is a snow bengal, between two brown spotted cats who both carry for snow you can only get one variety of snow bengal and that's what she was talking about.
post #45 of 58
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Siggav View Post
The pointed gene is a version of albino so I think that's what she was referring to.
If so then I'm ok with that, but true albino cats are colorless and have eyes that appear pink. Referring to seal bengals as albinos throws me for a loop. No one in the bengal breeding community refers to seals as albino.
post #46 of 58
Seal is dark brown (same color as black, genetically).When I said seal I meant mink, sorry. When breeders of different breeds of cats use different terminology to refer to the same genetic mutations, it's very confusing.

The colorpoint gene series all are different, co-recessive mutations of the same gene (which means they are mutally exclusive, though you have two copies of the gene), which codes for tyrosinase (which helps make pigment). They are sepia, color point, albino with blue eyes, and albino with pink eyes (there are other albino mutations which are possible). I was only referring to them as albino because the general word Bengal breeders use to refer to color point cats slipped my mind, and it was the simplest word that fit.

Siggav is right about the only normally possible way to get sepia and mink, or color point (lynx) and mink is if one of the parents is a snow of some sort. If both of the parents are mink, however, the kittens can be any sort of snow, in the probability ratios of 25% sepia, 50% mink and 25% color point, but all the kittens will be snow. Siggav is, of course, wrong on my sex.
post #47 of 58
You're right about it being possible to get all types from a double mink pairing. I forgot that scenario. Oops.

Also sorry about getting your gender wrong. I'm so used to being in areas online where the majority is female I tend to think of people as female unless proven otherwise in those spaces. A complete flip from pretty much anywhere else really where the default is always male. Anyway that's a different discussion, but yeah, oops.
post #48 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lioness View Post
wow!!!

I bet Simba is even more beautiful in person than he already looks in your signature picture then!

I really love green and blue eyes.
You really need to post Simba's really mean looking picture. It is incredible! (And we know he isn't really mean, but boy that picture.....)
post #49 of 58
So....where did Kai Bengals go? I was looking forward to more pics.
post #50 of 58
Wow, just found this thread - she's gorgeous!! Do you have any more updated pics Nial?
post #51 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kai Bengals View Post
I think I'd get most excited about having a Seal Sepia. Have yet to have one of those. And I'd be ecstatic to have a melanistic.

Rodeo and Hau Kea were both seal minbk, so it's going to be fun to have this seal lynx girl for a change.

The seals are more rare for us, because we don't breed for them specifically. Some breeders have lots of them.
Nial, if you want a melanistic, take one of mine, I have three of them right now (kittens), two females and one male. The spotted female is very beautiful with large spots.
post #52 of 58
for those of you who want to see an adult seal lynx pont snow, here's one that I produced here at Pocket Leopards.
I haven't kept one to adulthood but I plan on doing that next time one comes around.

post #53 of 58
wow - what a stricking color/markings on him/her. Why didn't you keep this one?
post #54 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldenKitty45 View Post
wow - what a stricking color/markings on him/her. Why didn't you keep this one?
I refer to her as a 'charcoal snow" because her markings are so dark and her mother is a charcoal brown. I didn't keep her because the cattery who owns her already was promised a seal lynx point snow before she was born. I traded a very nice stud for her before she was even born. Plus, all of my cats carry for marble and although marbles are beautiful, I am not focusing on marble at this time. I will probably keep the next snow spotted female that comes along.
My charcoal female is pregnant right now by a seal mink silver stud, so I should get lots of snow and silver and silver-snow combinations (hopefully).
post #55 of 58
Your melanistic Bengals are beautiful. I'll bet they do look like black panthers.
post #56 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by bengalbabe View Post
Nial, if you want a melanistic, take one of mine, I have three of them right now (kittens), two females and one male. The spotted female is very beautiful with large spots.
Just an FYI, I've been in touch with Nial recently (giving Penny updates,) and he has asked me to let folks know that he is no longer posting for personal reasons, but that people are welcome to contact him through his website.
post #57 of 58
Oh that's sad - I really enjoyed talking to him and learning about Bengals. Hope things work out and maybe one day he'll return.
post #58 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by bengalbabe View Post
for those of you who want to see an adult seal lynx pont snow, here's one that I produced here at Pocket Leopards.
I haven't kept one to adulthood but I plan on doing that next time one comes around.

She's beautiful!

Quote:
Originally Posted by GingersMom View Post
Just an FYI, I've been in touch with Nial recently (giving Penny updates,) and he has asked me to let folks know that he is no longer posting for personal reasons, but that people are welcome to contact him through his website.
That's too bad but thanks for the update.
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