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DO NOT spay & neuter?

post #1 of 19
Thread Starter 
I don't know what to say guys, I am bawling!!

http://www.naiaonline.org/pdfs/LongT...uterInDogs.pdf

Why wouldn't you spay & neuter!?!?! I came across another forum, loving the place. I cannot stay there any longer, I just can't. So many will NEVER EVER spay or neuter their pets!!

I need to go research, get more info to fire back at them.
post #2 of 19
I've read that before. I came across it from a dog forum I frequent. The average dog owner who manages to locate that article is not generally the same BYB who keeps letting Fluffy get pregnant. There are many dog owners who spend thousands of dollars obtaining/training their dogs and want to ensure certain drives are not compromised by spaying/neutering too early. These are the same dogs that serve with your police officers, search and rescue missing persons, and recover human remains from disaster sites. I fail to see what the linked website has to do with cats. Neutered cats can be good pets. They can be good mousers. What other purposes does anyone expect any given cat to serve?
post #3 of 19
I don't put a lot of truth in it. IMO the benefits far outweigh any negatives in the long run. Its been proven that spayed/neutered dogs/cats will live longer. I think the negatives are due to other factors and NOT to the spaying/neutering.

I'll stick to pushing the importance of spay/neuter!
post #4 of 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by JenC511 View Post
I fail to see what the linked website has to do with cats. Neutered cats can be good pets. They can be good mousers. What other purposes does anyone expect any given cat to serve?
It doesn't have anything to do with cats, but just because this is a cat site doesn't mean we don't care about other species or discuss other animal issues.

I guess my reaction to this paper is that you can find "facts" to support any position. There is definitely some truth to the idea that any procedure has both positive and negative effects on the patient - no matter the species. What that paper seemingly does not take into account is the social (that's not the right word, but I can't think of it right now) aspects of failure to spay/neuter, in that it doesn't address the number of animals who are given up for behavioral issues related to failure to spay/neuter (i.e. escaping the yard, aggression in males, irritation of the "owner" because of heat behavior), nor does it address the pet overpopulation problem that plagues our (and every) country.
post #5 of 19
I've never been convinced that there is any other benefit besides not creating more animals. My mother has had several dogs never spayed that lasted well into their teen years. One living up to 20. Their diet was supermarket brand food and table scraps.

When one of her dogs died of cancer guess what the vet said caused it "Not being spayed". She was 17 years old. He never asked or even considered other factors to cause her death. The fact of the matter is she was old, it was her time and well you gotta go out somehow.

My animals are fixed, but only because I wish to keep them from breeding. That's enough reason for me.
post #6 of 19
Well of course there may be negative effects to a surgery that removes an organ. I'm willing to bet Zissou's health and our happiness on the fact that the negative effects of not being spayed far outweigh the effects of being spayed.

That said, dogs' reproductive cycles are more like our own, right? They have cycles and menstruate. Cats are meant to be pregnant or nursing or in heat most of their unnaturally short-- in the wild/stray-- carnivorous lifestyles. Else, toms that roam and fight over mating. Because of that, I can see an argument for leaving a dog unfixed a little bit more than a cat. Responsible owners actually might be able to keep a dog unspayed or unneutered and still keep them from mating.

Still, there aren't enough responsible owners, and spaying and neutering should be the default. I just think dog owners might have a little bit more of a defense than cat owners.
post #7 of 19
From the link:
"No sweeping generalizations are implied in this review. Rather, the author asks us to consider all the health and disease information available as individual animals are evaluated. Then, the best decisions should be
made accounting for gender, age, breed, and even the specific conditions under which the long-term care, housing and training of the animal will occur."


There are plenty of contributing factors (like those Heidi mentions) that will outweigh possible health issues outlined in the link (to be fair, many of the negatives had the disclaimer that doubling a very small risk is still a very small risk).

One could also bring up the argument that most pets receiving veterinary care, diagnostics, and treatment are neutered. There are millions of animals (unaltered) euthanized in shelters or dying in the streets long before these health issues would crop up. There are countless pet owners who do not take their pets to the vet except maybe when the animal is so sick, they just euthanize anyway with no attempt to diagnose or treat. No one determines what, if any, health problems these animals might have had. Who knows? Maybe if there were feral packs of dogs running around unneutered (for a long enough period of time), they'd all end up with bone cancer.

Unfortunately, the link doesn't break down the animals actually studied to make these determinations. However, I do believe that neutering does come with slight risks (and, alternately, some health benefits). If it's simply population control, there are other methods of surgical birth control that do not affect hormone production. At the moment, it is much easier to find someone to castrate or spay your pet than to give it a vasectomy or tubal ligation. It's also much easier for most people to deal with their pets when they don't have the behavioral factors that go along with an intact, mature animal.

In a perfect world (and it certainly is not), I'd be all for letting animals mature and develop secondary sex characteristics prior to neutering. As it is, I'm 100% in favor of pediatric neutering for pet animals.
post #8 of 19
My dog Lady's spay was botched and not only does she have this weird incontinence thing (she "leaks" this clear fluid), but when they sewed her up on the inside they didn't do it correctly and you can feel this large bump inside her. It developed a couple of years after the spay.

Still, I'll have every animal that comes into my famly neutered and spayed. I think it cuts down on agression, and don't want any of them contributing to the population of unwanted animals.

I won't think twice about it. And I would think that most neuters/spays aren't botched.


Tricia
post #9 of 19
My animals are, and always will be spayed/neutered!!!
post #10 of 19
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Green Bunny View Post
My dog Lady's spay was botched and not only does she have this weird incontinence thing (she "leaks" this clear fluid), but when they sewed her up on the inside they didn't do it correctly and you can feel this large bump inside her. It developed a couple of years after the spay.


Tricia
Tricia, the vet here(I call Dr. Stupid) screwed up my Coco's spay. He "forgot" to take all of her uterus, actually left most of it. She's now mildly incotinent & piddles herself....prone to urine burn(I wipe her bum 2+ x a day), & sometimes has to wear diapers. I do not regret one bit having her spayed.
post #11 of 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by SalemWitchChild View Post
I've never been convinced that there is any other benefit besides not creating more animals. My mother has had several dogs never spayed that lasted well into their teen years. One living up to 20. Their diet was supermarket brand food and table scraps.

When one of her dogs died of cancer guess what the vet said caused it "Not being spayed". She was 17 years old. He never asked or even considered other factors to cause her death. The fact of the matter is she was old, it was her time and well you gotta go out somehow.

My animals are fixed, but only because I wish to keep them from breeding. That's enough reason for me.
Well, IF she died of Mammary Cancer I guess the Vet would be correct. Don't females have a MUCH greater chance of getting Mammary Cancer if they aren't spayed?
post #12 of 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by ckblv View Post
Well, IF she died of Mammary Cancer I guess the Vet would be correct. Don't females have a MUCH greater chance of getting Mammary Cancer if they aren't spayed?

My point is even if it was Mammary cancer you cannot say she died because of not spaying at that age. She was old. She had led a full life. And I do not believe they take other conditions into consideration like diet, lifestyle, and genetics.
post #13 of 19
I have yet to see a vet flip out on a dog owner, upon diagnosis of osteosarcoma, for neutering the dog. There are plenty of good reasons to spay/neuter dogs (and cats), but blaming a 17 year old dog's death solely on being intact is a little ridiculous.
post #14 of 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by JenC511 View Post
I have yet to see a vet flip out on a dog owner, upon diagnosis of osteosarcoma, for neutering the dog. There are plenty of good reasons to spay/neuter dogs (and cats), but blaming a 17 year old dog's death solely on being intact is a little ridiculous.
That's what I thought. But it happened to my mom.
post #15 of 19
I remember when I was kid, people with prize hunting dogs and I know racing greyhounds aren't altered. They are supposed to be better at what they do if they aren't altered. They aren't allowed to breed willy-nilly though. It is much easier with a dog because they only have two very predictable heat cycles a year and some breeds only have one. I know in the case of the greyhounds they are retired young and they are altered before they are put up for adoption.
post #16 of 19
Thread Starter 
I wish I could get people to understand that dogs don't hunt better when they aren't fixed! I hate that....that is so many people's excuse. Well, yeah, they of course want a female unfixed hunting dog. But she never gets to hunt because she's always pregnant!
post #17 of 19
The people I knew very rarely bred a dog. If they did it was a very good dog and it was only one litter. It's much easier to avoid pregnancy in a dog because they have a lot fewer heat cycles than cats and they are very predictable cycles.
post #18 of 19
I'm going to ask a small favour. Please if you put up a link to a PDF format, please let someone know it's PDF. For some reason, either my computer or my browser hates PDF, and it freezes up on it every time I open one of these formats, and it's major job to close the browser down.

I now notice it's on the link that it's PDF, but I clicked on the link originally not even looking.
post #19 of 19
The truth is, for educated and responsible pet owners, spaying or neutering should be a well thought out decision, weighing the pros and cons and depending upon their dog's breed, medical situation, etc etc. I am NOT counting cats here because my opinion is and always will be that unless you are one of the select few responsibly breeding your cat (FamilytimeRags here is one of the people I would have no bones about keeping intact cats, for instance, or Kai Bengals) to better the breed or you have a cat with a health problem that makes surgery or anesthesia or both risky, your cat should be neutered. Period. But anyhow.. as I was saying...

Large breeds (Mastiff, Dane, Bloodhound, you get the picture) of dogs take more time to fully mature than others, and the extra hormones racing around in their little bodies help greatly with their maturing. Dogs that are neutered earlier are taller, lankier, and have less bone density than dogs neutered over a year old. There are also a few other things to think about, but the article goes over most of that...

You most certainly can keep an intact male or female (I know plenty of people successfully doing both who have never bred a litter--but I wouldn't want to be in their shoes for the world, especially when their girls come into season) without bringing puppies into the world. You can even have said intact dog offleash in some areas responsibly, providing that your dog is well-trained. Just.... to everyone here, please... please don"t bash people who can do it responsibly. Admittedly, they are the minority, lol. That is why my boy got neutered--I am terrified of ever being responsible for bringing anything into the world, and want him neutered for my peace of mind. Otherwise I might have thought about it for a bit, but as he is a year and a half, I think he has gotten all the benefits from those hormones I can stand.

As far as responsibility goes...... all this information is GREAT for responsible owners. As for those who want to breed just one litter, let their intact dog go wandering, have some idiotic reason for not neutering ("they get fat" is the one I hear from my neighbors because one dog and two bitches who were FINALLY neutered got fat from excessively overeating. My poor boy has actually LOST weight, and I am freely handing out the PB Kongs and kibble to help with that..), etc...... this would just be another excuse for them to do whatever they want to do. IMO, we shouldn't give it to 'em. I'd prefer they get their mastiff neutered at six months than that mastiff's puppies and grandpuppies being mistreated.


Also, Denice.... no offense here.. but it would be pretty dumb to alter your racing greyhound if you are planning on breeding him/her, as most racers do, to get faster dogs from each breeding. (Well, faster in theory... genetics can play out interestingly) You might end up with the fastest dog yet and not be able to get puppies form her. However, this is in no way my opinion on greyhound racing, I do not support it or agree with it at all. It's pretty much founded on the 'dogs are disposable' theory that the rest of the world uses.
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