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This Food Sounds Good Except... - Page 2

post #31 of 53
on a side note, part of the orijen bandwagon started when naturapet was seen to be involved in the petfood recall, although Evo was not affected by it
post #32 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by icklemiss21 View Post
I think because she has posted it before several times... and I think I helped start the Orijen bandwagon when my vet remarked on the improvement in health in Scully (you are newer so don't know his story, so in a nutshell, I adopted him a few years ago, aged 9, with diabetes at 33lbs, he had 'issues' eating wet so we settled on a high protein dry. I fed EVO for a while and then they kept changing their formula just after he had an operation and as such he wasn't really eating it, so I tried something else and Orijen was LOVED by all 4 of my cats and the vet mentioned they all looked healthier on it), he lost weight better on it and his coat is better.
That someone would have that kind of experience with a food would make me at least want to try the food. Maybe that's all the reason alot of people needed.

Quote:
Now onto the ingredients (excuse any typos this list is long)

Fresh chicken meat, chicken meal (low ash), turkey meal, steamed russet potato, fresh caughty Northern Whitefish, chicken fat, fresh whole eggs, salmon meal, salmon & anchovy oils, tapioca, chicken broth, sunflower oil, flaxseed, Atlantic kelp, steamed carrots, spinach, peas, tomatoes, sun cured alfalfa, apple fibre, psyllium seed, rosemary extract, chicory, burdock and marshmallow root (FOS), yeast extract (MOS), glucosamine HCI, cranberries, blackcurrants, rosehip, stinging nettle, marigold flowers, L-carnitine, fennel seed, chamomile flowers, milk thistle, chickweed, summer savory, chondroitin sulfate, mixed tocopherals (source of Vit. E) choline chloride, Vit. A, D3, niacin, riboflavin, thiamine mononitrate, Vit. K, B12, folic acid, biotin, pyridoxine (source of Vit. B6), iron proteinate, zinc proteinate, sodium selenite, manganese proteinate, copper proteinate, lactobacillus, acidophilis, Lactobacillus casei, bifidobacterium (B.bifidus) and Saccharomyces (S. boulardii)
Thanks for doing that. I know it was a pain. It is interesting that it varies quite a bit from what is on their web site. I don't know that it is important but it is interesting...

I really wonder about labelling standards differences in various countries. I'm getting the idea that the standards aren't as strict in other countries as in the US.

I guess I have hijacked this thread long enough. Sorry ConsumerKitty!
post #33 of 53
I emailed them about the difference in ingredient list, Bumper and Scully both have issues with foods, even when it is a difference in ingredients, and Orijen have changed their ingredients before (it used to have deboned turkey and it was dropped when the new look bag came out) so if it is different I want to get a bad sooner and mix to get them used to it.

I will let you know what they say
post #34 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by mschauer View Post
I'd still loved to hear from others. Just cuz your cat likes Orijen better than EVO doesn't count. My cats *love* Pro Plan!
Okay, here's how I got started with Orijen. When the recall hit, I was in the process of (1) switching them to California Natural from a lower quality dry food (Authority) and (2) trying to ultimately get them onto an all-wet diet. After the recall, I freaked out about glutens of any kind, and most of the wet I was feeding had glutens. I basically had to change everything they were eating. Based on my own research, the extremely knowlegable people on this board, and the fact that Cindy was turning her nose up at most of the new varieties of canned I was trying, I decided I would go grain free dry. I tried every kind of grain free dry available, and neither of my cats would touch any of them. I was about to give up, but I was hearing so many good things about Orijen, I finally decided to order a bag. I didn't have much hope of success, but to my surprise, both my cats loved it. They're doing well on it, althought I'm still trying for a more wet than dry overall diet plan.

I don't know much about feline nutrition. I wish I did. But some of my criteria at the moment is none of the obvious bad stuff (like by-products), no glutens, no soy, no garlic. And then the final criteria is that my cats actually eat it.

The other reason I didn't want to give them Evo (dispite the fact that they won't eat it anyway) is that I've heard it can cause cats to gain weight. Swanie, at 15 1/2 pounds, definitely doesn't need to gain any more weight.
post #35 of 53
I think part of it is the fact that several people tried Orijen shortly after it came out and posted glowing reviews here. That made a lot of people interested in trying it, at a time when it was still very hard to find. So, there was a lot of discussion as to where to buy it and how much we wanted to try it.
post #36 of 53
I got a reply
Quote:
ZEA MAYS is corn silk, a botanical that is derived from filaments inside the leaf of the corn plant. It is not the corn kernels or grain. This link will take you to Botanical.com where you can learn more about the composition and function of this novel botanical. http://botanical.com/botanical/mgmh/c/corsi105.html

As regards the changes to our other botanicals, this is an unfortunate circumstance of selling in the USA market, where AAFCO regulates botanicals. While all ORIJEN botanicals are GRAS (Generally Recognized As Safe) and widely used in holistic medicine for dogs and cats, no one has ever registered these as supplements in foods for animals, and AAFCO views them as 'novel' as they have never reviewed them for use in pet food. We also had to change the wording on our packages as (according to AAFCO) there is no such thing as fresh chicken meat! The updated botanicals reflect those that are recognized by AAFCO, and that replicate our original list as closely as possible.

The changes to the original ORIJEN formula are really very, very small and most of the changes are really a result of AAFCO rulings resulting in our having to rewrite the ingredient panels. That said, and even though AAFCO doesn't allow us to say it - our meats, fish and eggs arrive at our factory FRESH (never frozen, no preservatives) each day.

ORIJEN is of course entirely grain free.
post #37 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by icklemiss21 View Post
I got a reply
That's great! Thanks for looking into it. I've been sure for some time that are are differences in labelling standards in other countries. Not surprising really. Why would they be the same?
post #38 of 53
How does Orijen compare to Serengeti in your opinion?
post #39 of 53
I have fed Serengetti, mine prefer the taste of Orijen so I stick with it, they didn't get fed enough of the Serengetti to be able to tell if there was a difference in weight loss / coat etc

A while back there was a thread on the differences of each, I will see if I can drag it up
post #40 of 53
http://thecatsite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=123807
http://thecatsite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=125109

The two bigger posts on the differences between all the grain frees (some have undergone some formula changes recently so info may not be completely up to date)
post #41 of 53
I initially got the sample packet and both our kitties dug into it immediately. they loved it.
post #42 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by icklemiss21 View Post
http://thecatsite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=123807
http://thecatsite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=125109

The two bigger posts on the differences between all the grain frees (some have undergone some formula changes recently so info may not be completely up to date)
Yeah, I think I have seen most, if not all, the posts regarding the "which is better" debate. What prompted my question was that so many people seem to think Orijen is just fabulously better than anything else available. I was expecting (hoping?) some of those people would post something like "Orijen is obviously a better food than EVO because ...".

I know that some believe Orijen to be better for UT health but the first thread above shows there is disagreement on that.

I think I'm not making clear it is the "over the top" reaction to Orijen that has me befuddled. And I don't mean the people who like it just because their cats like it. I mean people who have never even tried it and bemoan the fact that it isn't readily available in the US.

Maybe I'm just making too much of it ...
post #43 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by mschauer View Post
Yeah, I think I have seen most, if not all, the posts regarding the "which is better" debate. What prompted my question was that so many people seem to think Orijen is just fabulously better than anything else available. I was expecting (hoping?) some of those people would post something like "Orijen is obviously a better food than EVO because ...".

I know that some believe Orijen to be better for UT health but the first thread above shows there is disagreement on that.

I think I'm not making clear it is the "over the top" reaction to Orijen that has me befuddled. And I don't mean the people who like it just because their cats like it. I mean people who have never even tried it and bemoan the fact that it isn't readily available in the US.

Maybe I'm just making too much of it ...
Not too much .. you just need more info ...lol.. Zoey loved it thou it will be very hard for me to get ... I Like it over EVO in many ways but the UTI sealed it thou I am not happy about a every changing formula ... All the potato grain frees have the draw back of seeing HIGHER insidence of diabetes( thou in some it cures it go figure) tummy issues ( EVO is the top in that) causeing UTI issues ( orijen and serengetti seem not to )
post #44 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bazkitty View Post
How does Orijen compare to Serengeti in your opinion?
Serengeti is what I have been feeding since the end of March I believe. I like it and the babes like it. I have not tried Orijen but considered it at one time. I decided against it mainly on the fact I could not get a good enough deal on it online. But as for ingredients in both well they look alright to me. Plus they both are grain free which is a big plus.
post #45 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by sharky View Post
Not too much .. you just need more info ...lol.. Zoey loved it thou it will be very hard for me to get ... I Like it over EVO in many ways but the UTI sealed it thou I am not happy about a every changing formula ... All the potato grain frees have the draw back of seeing HIGHER insidence of diabetes( thou in some it cures it go figure) tummy issues ( EVO is the top in that) causeing UTI issues ( orijen and serengetti seem not to )
I'd be interested in your source of information. I've never read anyplace about higher rates of diabetes and UTI with grain frees that include potato.

Do your sources specifically call out EVO, Orijen and Serengetti as having or not having these problems?
post #46 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by mschauer View Post
I'd be interested in your source of information. I've never read anyplace about higher rates of diabetes and UTI with grain frees that include potato.

Do your sources specifically call out EVO, Orijen and Serengetti as having or not having these problems?
talking with vets ... mine and others in the area ... EVO can increase UTI issues this is from area vets holistic and NON ... as my vet says she recomend s EVO unless there is a UTI history ( note none have been on the market long enough to really know long term effects ).... Potato s are supect in higher diabetes in cats ( read a few studies that were not just grain free ) ..

By Numbers ie % only Orijen passes the UTI freindly test ... in regards to total ash and mag levels .. the CA+ and phos are a bit high ...

It comes down to knowledge and reading and asking lots of ??? NOT from the Companys and to the companys ( NOTE still waiting for a ingrediant call from orijen ...
post #47 of 53
As I said before, I think much of that has to do with the fact they have their owm manufacturing plant and were not involved at all with menufoods.

Other reasons I have heard are that Evo has garlic, is higher in fat, lower in Omega-3 (I haven't checked recently but Omega-6 was not stated on their website for), has a lower guaranteed taurine level (by.5%) and is higher in calories per cup (which means although you are feeding less, you are feeding an even lower amount of the above nutrients etc as you feed less food)

At least up here, Orijen is more cost effective to feed also. Evo can be very expensive depending on where you buy it, there is a $15 (plus taxes) difference in the cost of a large bag of Evo and Orijen where I live.

I still think, however, that Evo is a good food compared to many.
post #48 of 53
I read somewhere (and I will try to find the link) that low carb foods were diabetes friendly as the less carbohydrate 'fillers', which are stored as sugars, the better the body absorbs the nutients that it needs to live and improves insulin resistence. However, the higher fat content can lead to the nutients not being absorbed fully, particularly during the change over period and when switching from a low grade filler type food.

I haven't however read anything that states potato as the problem.
post #49 of 53
Sharky, Orijen got back to me, the ingredients on their website are correct, but zea mays is the silvery stuff on the inside of corn leaves not the actual corn and is considered a botanical not a grain.
post #50 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by icklemiss21 View Post
Sharky, Orijen got back to me, the ingredients on their website are correct, but zea mays is the silvery stuff on the inside of corn leaves not the actual corn and is considered a botanical not a grain.
Ie commonly called in the herbal world CORN SILK ... it is a great herb and I will detail it later
post #51 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by icklemiss21 View Post
I read somewhere (and I will try to find the link) that low carb foods were diabetes friendly as the less carbohydrate 'fillers', which are stored as sugars, the better the body absorbs the nutients that it needs to live and improves insulin resistence. However, the higher fat content can lead to the nutients not being absorbed fully, particularly during the change over period and when switching from a low grade filler type food.

I haven't however read anything that states potato as the problem.
Potato the russet or white ELEVATES the blood sugar rapidly ... Yes in some cases it work s great for a control from a higher starch level food ... Sweet potato does NOT elevate
post #52 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by sharky View Post
Ie commonly called in the herbal world CORN SILK ... it is a great herb and I will detail it later
thanks, if you go back to my post where I quoted he said that many of the 'changes' were just to names to satisfy the AAFCO and similar governing bodies in other countries
post #53 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by icklemiss21 View Post
thanks, if you go back to my post where I quoted he said that many of the 'changes' were just to names to satisfy the AAFCO and similar governing bodies in other countries
Missed that but it makes sense/// I just wanted the common name so folks can look it up.. Thank you for clarifying
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