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Let's All Apply For This!

post #1 of 29
Thread Starter 
The Honorable Tom Harkin
731 Hart Senate Office Building
Washington DC , 20510
Phone (202) 224 3254

Dear Senator Harkin,
As a native Iowan and excellent customer of the Internal Revenue
Service, I am writing to ask for your assistance. I have contacted the
Department of Homeland Security in an effort to determine the process
for becoming an illegal alien and they referred me to you.

My primary reason for wishing to change my status from U.S. Citizen
to illegal alien stems from the bill which was recently passed by the
Senate and for which you voted.

If my understanding of this bill's provisions is accurate, as an
illegal alien who has been in the United States for five years, all I
need to do to become a citizen is to pay a $2,000 fine and income taxes for
three of the last five years. I know a good deal when I see one and I am
anxious to get the process started before everyone figures it out.

Simply put, those of us who have been here legally have had to pay
taxes every year so I'm excited about the prospect of avoiding two years
of taxes in return for paying a $2,000 fine. Is there any way that I can
apply to be illegal retroactively? This would yield an excellent result
for me and my family because we paid heavy taxes in 2004 and 2005.

Additionally, as an illegal alien I could begin using the local emergency room as my primary health care provider. Once I have stopped paying premiums for medical insurance, my accountant figures I could save almost $10,000 a year.
Another benefit in gaining illegal status would be that my daughter would recieve preferencial treatment in regards to her law school applications, as well as "in-state" tuition rates for many colleges throughout the United States for my son.
Lastly, I understand that illegal status would relieve me of the burden
of renewing my driver's license and making those burdensome car
insurance premiums. This is very important to me given that I still have college age children driving my car.

If you would provide me with an outline of the process to become
illegal (retroactively if possible) and copies of the necessary forms, I would
be most appreciative.
Thank you for your assistance.
our Loyal Constituent,

John Q. Public
Get your Forms (NOW)!! Call your Internal Revenue Service
1-800-289-1040.
post #2 of 29
I love it. I'm passing this one on!
post #3 of 29
How very sad that people have such a grudge against paying taxes.
post #4 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zissou'sMom View Post
How very sad that people have such a grudge against paying taxes.
Taxes were a means for a fledling country ... WE SHOULD NOT have them anymore ... and many would nt mind if the $$ were spent properly not on salerys for public workers that are 10 x what Joe Public makes
post #5 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by sharky View Post
Taxes were a means for a fledling country ... WE SHOULD NOT have them anymore ... and many would nt mind if the $$ were spent properly not on salerys for public workers that are 10 x what Joe Public makes


I don't like that taxes go to fund retirement payments that are in 6-digit figures for retired politicians. Service to the constituents should NOT include picking their pockets in perpetuity.

Every time that Congress votes itself another raise, another budget gets cut somewhere else.

It isn't about not paying taxes, it's about fair taxation. The entire reason that the USA was founded was to get AWAY from unfair taxation. Remember the Stamp Tax? Remember the Boston Tea Party? It wasn't about the TEA!
post #6 of 29
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zissou'sMom View Post
How very sad that people have such a grudge against paying taxes.
Actually, as it pertains to this "letter" I think that the point is that illegal aliens don't have to pay the same taxes that U.S. citizens have to pay. If we only paid taxes three out of five years, the IRS would be all over us, levying late fees, etc.
post #7 of 29
I have a way bigger problem with the ridiculous salaries of CEOs compared to their employees than I do with the leader of the free world making 200,000$. I also don't think taxes are a tool of a fledgling nation, how else would you propose funding... oh... everything? Schools, roads, that pesky war, welfare.

And whining about whether or not someone else is paying their fair share of taxes is the same as whining about paying taxes; anyway, the letter is about trying to become an illegal immigrant so that we don't have to pay them anymore either, not about getting them to pay all five years.

I know it's a joke, but the philosophy behind it makes me shudder.
post #8 of 29
Personally, I'm tired of paying taxes to cover Welfare. I do realize we have to maintain roads and schools, but I don't believe in paying taxes for Welfare and Wars. I also don't believe in paying taxes to put big salaries in the Politicians hands. I'm barely struggling. I work 40 plus hours a week, and I don't live much better than a person on Welfare.

If I could live better as an illegal, why not?
post #9 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zissou'sMom View Post
And whining about whether or not someone else is paying their fair share of taxes is the same as whining about paying taxes; anyway, the letter is about trying to become an illegal immigrant so that we don't have to pay them anymore either, not about getting them to pay all five years.

I know it's a joke, but the philosophy behind it makes me shudder.
I think you missed the point, Julie.

It's about the average Joe Public not getting near the perks that the illegal immigrant gets, without the lifetime of contributions that Joe Public has put into the system. This isn't equality to the people who live here legally - it's preferential treatment for the illegals.

Mr. Ill Imm gets free healthcare by going to the ER with no permanent address. Children of Mr. Ill Imm get all kinds of assistance, including in-state tuition for about any college/university in the country. Mr. Ill Imm doesn't have a legitimate social security number, so doesn't have to pay taxes, nor is he punished for not doing so.
post #10 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by valanhb View Post
I think you missed the point, Julie.

It's about the average Joe Public not getting near the perks that the illegal immigrant gets, without the lifetime of contributions that Joe Public has put into the system. This isn't equality to the people who live here legally - it's preferential treatment for the illegals.

Mr. Ill Imm gets free healthcare by going to the ER with no permanent address. Children of Mr. Ill Imm get all kinds of assistance, including in-state tuition for about any college/university in the country. Mr. Ill Imm doesn't have a legitimate social security number, so doesn't have to pay taxes, nor is he punished for not doing so.
I didn't miss the point; the issue is that it doesn't come from the angle of I have to pay my taxes, why shouldn't they? but rather They don't have to pay taxes, why should I? I suppose in some strange roundabout way it is making that point, but I'm sick to death of people whining about taxes but then whining about what the government doesn't do.

The democrats don't want to kick them out because... you know... they're human beings and the only difference between them and us is an arbitrary line in the sand and which side we were born on. Being a member of one nation or another is not an inherent thing about you, it's a social construct and unfortunately they ended up on the side of it that is lethal.

The republicans can't afford to kick them out because their elections hinge on hispanic votes. The staunch anti-immigrant people aren't likely to start voting democratic over it, so, for the time being, the hispanic vote is more important. Although, there's a bit of that on both sides.
post #11 of 29
i can remember being, poor student Julie, does not seem to be that long ago.
and the amount of taxes i payed then seem really silly. But

now however, taxes are the bane of the working man. When you see huge parts of your pay check leaving, When the tax you have to pay, stops you from being able to buy a house, THat you can afford., but you cant afford the Tax that comes with it. When people now have to live in fear of IRS there is a real proble.The amount of taxes the working man pay are a REal burden on the people. When that money is being spent, wrong, or people see it being spent on people that not supposed to be here to start with, YES it will cause major hated.

I am on of thoese people that i think the income TAX is illegal there is nothing that says we have to pay it, i am just to lazy to prove it all the time.

Well as for the whole CEO thing, yea sometimes it does seem silly what they make, But then if that employee want to make more then well, they have that chance to go for it if they want ot put forth the effort... Sorry i am not into the share the wealth plan.(i thought we called them communist)

I dont want to be a CEO, all i want is to go back to my coffee shops and run those.
post #12 of 29
I'm just curious how those who think that you shouldn't have to pay any tax propose to fund the things that benefit everyone that taxes pay for? That's not a smart-alec question. It's a genuine one.
post #13 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by KitEKats4Eva! View Post
I'm just curious how those who think that you shouldn't have to pay any tax propose to fund the things that benefit everyone that taxes pay for? That's not a smart-alec question. It's a genuine one.
Income Tax, there is no real law that says you have to pay it.
people just keep doing it, cause they think its something you are supposed to
people do get out of it, if they chose to fight it.
I dont want to get into the whole tax history thing, (i hate to type that much )
The IRS will just make you life a real pain if you dont pay it.

there are law, for many of the others taxes,
state tax, sales tax, to name a couple that tend to be laws,
post #14 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zissou'sMom View Post
I have a way bigger problem with the ridiculous salaries of CEOs compared to their employees than I do with the leader of the free world making 200,000$. I also don't think taxes are a tool of a fledgling nation, how else would you propose funding... oh... everything? Schools, roads, that pesky war, welfare.

And whining about whether or not someone else is paying their fair share of taxes is the same as whining about paying taxes; anyway, the letter is about trying to become an illegal immigrant so that we don't have to pay them anymore either, not about getting them to pay all five years.

I know it's a joke, but the philosophy behind it makes me shudder.
"leader of the free world" now there is a statement to make one shudder. Who the hell decided the US has the right to dictate what all other countries can and cannot do. What would we do if some other country tried that BS on us?

ZM you are missing the whole point of this letter. It is really a sad state of affairs when a letter such as this is even written as a joke. When hard working people who are the patriotic backbone of this country wish they were able to renounce their citizenship. That says volumes about how wrong things have gone. The government is out of control (both parties). We only need to look at the fall of the Roman Republic to see where we are heading.

It is not just about taxes. It is about the destruction of our Constitution for the greed of the politicians.
post #15 of 29
i saw this on the net years ago,
i dont know where it came from or who wrote it, But most of it i can agree with

A VISITOR FROM THE PAST
I had a dream the other night, I didn't understand.
A figure walking through the mist, with flintlock in his hand.
His clothes were torn and dirty, as he stood there by the bed,
He took off his three-cornered hat, and speaking low, he said:
"We fought a revolution, to secure our liberty.
We wrote the Constitution, as a shield from tyranny,
For future generations, this legacy we gave,
In this, the land of the free and the home of the brave."
"The freedom we secured for you, we hoped you'd always keep.
But tyrants labored endlessly, while your parents were asleep.
Your freedom gone, your courage lost, you're no more than a slave,
In this, the land of the free and the home of the brave."
"You buy permits to travel, and permits to own a gun,
Permits to start a business, or to build a place for one.
On land that you believe you own, you pay a yearly rent,
Although you have no voice in choosing how the money's spent."
"Your children must attend a school that doesn't educate.
Your Christian values can't be taught, according to the state.
You read about the current news, in a regulated press.
You pay a tax you do not owe, to please the I.R.S."
"Your money is no longer made of silver or of gold.
You trade your wealth for paper, so your life can be controlled
You pay for crimes that make our nation turn from God in shame,
You've taken Satan's number, as you've traded in your name."
"You've given government control to those who do you harm,
So they can padlock churches, and steal the family farm,
And keep the country deep in debt, put men of God in jail,
Harass your fellow countrymen, while corrupted courts prevail."
"Your public servants don't uphold the solemn oath they've sworn.
Your daughters visit doctors so their children won't be born.
Your leaders ship artillery and guns to foreign shores,
And send your sons to slaughter, fighting other people's wars."
"Can you regain freedom for which we fought and died?
Or don't you have the courage or the faith to stand with pride.
Are there no more values for which you'll fight to save?
Or do you wish your children to live in fear and be a slave?"
"Sons of the Republic, arise and take a stand!
Defend the Constitution, the Supreme Law of the Land!
Preserve our great republic and each God-given right,
And pray to God to keep the torch of freedom burning bright!"
As I awoke he vanished, in the mist from which he came.
His words were true, we are not free. We have ourselves to blame.
For even now as tyrants trample each God-given right,
We only watch and tremble, too afraid to stand and fight.
If he stood by your bedside, in a dream while you're asleep,
And wondered what remains of our rights he fought to keep,
What would be your answer, if he called out from the grave?
Is this still the Land of the Free and the Home of the Brave?
post #16 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by theimp98 View Post
Income Tax, there is no real law that says you have to pay it.
people just keep doing it, cause they think its something you are supposed to
people do get out of it, if they chose to fight it.
I dont want to get into the whole tax history thing, (i hate to type that much )
The IRS will just make you life a real pain if you dont pay it.

there are law, for many of the others taxes,
state tax, sales tax, to name a couple that tend to be laws,
Well, uh, that's all well and good, but really doesn't answer my question.
post #17 of 29
sure i did, there is no law saying i should have to pay income tax. That is your answer.

OK everyone that posts on TCS owe me 1 cent, that is your post tax,
for no other reason then i say so . Its the same idea. That the goverment
feeds you. TO make you THINK, you are suppoed to pay it.
post #18 of 29
Income Tax is actually unconstitutional, but we all pay it anyway.
As for getting things funded, we still have lots of other taxes that are legal:
Sales tax, property tax, use taxes (like vehicle licensing, etc).

Does that better answer the question?
post #19 of 29
Yes it does - Bruce, you didn't answer my question. My question was, how do you suggest paying for the things that tax revenue pays for now, if nobody pays tax anymore?

And now I'm intrigued Arlyn - is it really unconstitutional? How's that?
post #20 of 29
It's unconstitutional in the spirit of the 16 ammendment as it was written.
But, as with the entire Constitution, it relies on interpretation by the Supreme Court.
It was never properly ratified.
There are states that individually ratified the ammendment, but those do not apply to the federal income tax, only state.
post #21 of 29
But now I'm confused. That amendment states "The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes on incomes, from whatever source derived, without apportionment among the several States, and without regard to any census or enumeration."

That sounds as though income tax is perfectly ok, constitutionally
post #22 of 29
I think because it was never properly ratified is what makes it unconstitutional.

As far as paying for state run things with no income taxes, I did a paper on it at university so here is what I remember.

Everyone is responsible for themselves (such a novel idea I know), you buy insurance for health, you pay for your education, there is a local tax, agreed upon by a citizens assembly that looks at the budget for that area and works out how much is needed for policing / fire etc. These 'taxes' (they have a special name, I can't remember what) are usually in the range of 5% of wages, not the 18%+ most people pay in taxes now.

However, people are expected to 'do their bit' for their local area and in areas where it does work, people contribute a few hours a month to community work, there is a sign up and people do what they are best suited to, gardening (as in weeding etc, the plants are bought from the general 'purse' in parks etc, which helps keeps costs down.

The notion of no taxes is harder to understand in countries that have huge welfare states and cover health care etc, but in the case of the US, taxes can near those of countries who cover health and education to a much greater extent, it is easier to see why people are upset.

If I can find the data, there is actually a lot of evidence to show that low tax societies take better care of their poor, because they don't have an abundance of jobs, they can find work for those who need it in the cities and don't waste money on a million middle managers who give orders from the managers to the workers just so managers don't have to leave their offices.

However, it is hard to change an existing society into a low tax one as the people who make the decisions are usually the ones benefiting from the existing society.
post #23 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by kittymonsters View Post
ZM you are missing the whole point of this letter.
I already responded to that.

As for 'leader of the free world', well, he is, by bullying or any other means necessary. What if another country tried that on us? That's the point. They can try, but take the example of the international criminal court. The US refused to give up any of its sovereignty while other countries were willing to do so to work together. It's apparent that we're bent on staying in our position of political power no matter what the cost. Aside from that, it's a turn of phrase and I suppose I could have chosen a different one.
post #24 of 29
The fact that other countries work together would mean their leaders are leaders of the free world, and he just tries to do as he pleases with an army behind him, but that is a whole other thread that we wont ruin this one with
post #25 of 29
Thank you icklemiss for explaining that better than I did.
I should really know by now not to post when I'm half asleep
post #26 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by icklemiss21 View Post
The fact that other countries work together would mean their leaders are leaders of the free world, and he just tries to do as he pleases with an army behind him, but that is a whole other thread that we wont ruin this one with
I wasn't trying to imply he should be... OMG... can we please move on? I apologize for my word choice.
post #27 of 29
Perhaps being Canadian causes me to read things differently, but I didn't get much about not paying taxes in that post. I read it as being upset that illegal immigrants get far more consideration and assistance from the government than do US citizens.

You could almost change all references from the US to Canada and it might fit as well.

Also, when did George W. become the "Leader of the Free World". I thought it was bad enough that he was the leader of the US of A.
post #28 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yosemite View Post
Perhaps being Canadian causes me to read things differently, but I didn't get much about not paying taxes in that post. I read it as being upset that illegal immigrants get far more consideration and assistance from the government than do US citizens.
I think that's how it was intended too.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Yosemite View Post
Also, when did George W. become the "Leader of the Free World". I thought it was bad enough that he was the leader of the US of A.
I'm with you there too!
post #29 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yosemite View Post
Perhaps being Canadian causes me to read things differently, but I didn't get much about not paying taxes in that post. I read it as being upset that illegal immigrants get far more consideration and assistance from the government than do US citizens.

You could almost change all references from the US to Canada and it might fit as well.
I too read it that way, just one those little tangents we go off on, apart from the whole writing off of taxes that immigrants didn't pay while as citizen would be in legal trouble over it
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