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cairo

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I've been in the banking business for several years now and while I've never dealt with the deposit side of things, I did have to take a million classes in compliance every quarter covering all the things mentioned in this post.

First of all, I have to agree with SwampWitch wholeheartedly about credit unions. Most of them are really the best way to go. They are mostly non-profit and exist to support a select community that they define (a company, an agency, county, school district, etc). Most people are qualified to be a member of a credit union based on location and/or profession (school teachers, government workers). Credit unions invest in their customers which means they are often able to lend money in situations where others can't. There are a few cons to credit unions, such as location. Most don't have a million branch offices like banks do. But in my opinion, the pros outweigh the cons.

On the matter of your account being closed by the bank, there are a few circumstances that warrant it. Banking regulations have tightened severly over the last several years and one thing that every account must have is certain information on every account holder. If they are unable to obtain this information from you, they are required to close or freeze your account. If I remember correctly it's your SSN, a photo ID, and a signature. A lot of banks always asked for that stuff, but some didn't and now have to correct their records, especially if they are being audited.

Another thing is that savings accounts can't have more than 4 online transactions a month. This is a regulation and not something that your bank gets to decide on. They are allowed to give you one warning the first time you do it. The second time you do it they can either convert your account to a checking or close the account.

Some banks offer interest-bearing checking accounts that are actually savings accounts with limits to online transactions. You may be able to write unlimited checks on those accounts, but online transactions are limited.

If this is a genuine checking account and they closed it without any reason, or based on number of online transactions, then you should file a complaint with their regulators. You can find out who regulates them by looking them up on this site: http://www.ffiec.gov/.

I have not set foot in my bank as a customer in over 3 years and have never had a problem doing all my banking online by staying within the online transaction limit between my checkings and savings.
 
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arie85

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Originally Posted by Crazyforinfo

For your signature.
I was there once and signed on the papers and even made a cash deposit, what else do they need me for? They are the ones who let you use the computer or telephone to make transactions, and I think it is meant to make life easier and more comfortable, but between comfort and security there is bureaucracy and the banks eat up themselves with that thing because they really can't manage it
 
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arie85

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Originally Posted by Cairo

If this is a genuine checking account and they closed it without any reason, or based on number of online transactions, then you should file a complaint with their regulators. You can find out who regulates them by looking them up on this site: http://www.ffiec.gov/.
Do you think I should do it?
 

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We have accounts at three banks in our house. My son gets SSI and he has his own account at one bank. When I opened mine about 1 1/2 yrs ago I choose a different bank because I liked some of their options better. My husband has a federal credit union account. When he got that account it costed him nothing to set it up because my dad was a member there and ex-military.

I don't have any issues with any of the banks we use. I did have one issue with my bank but they took care of it quickly. When they took my maintance fee out one month and it put me .7 cents over. I called them up and asked them if they could waive the fee (35.00) because it was only .7 cents. anything more I would have just paid but .7 cents over and getting charged 35.00 seemed a little much. Well the bank waived the fee with no questions asked and was very nice about it.

Yes some banks can be buttheads but ours is not that bad honestly.
 

icklemiss21

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I would go in and find out what the problem is before lodging any complaints.

My mastercard issuer once put my card on hold because I was travelling through different countries and also used it online and they wanted to know how I was in Poland and the US at the same time, it is a safety feature there to protect the customer from fraudulent use of their card, it may be sorted easily.
 

catsarebetter

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Originally Posted by SwampWitch

For some reason, I thought Credit Unions were everywhere. All you have to do to become a member (if you are near one) is to make a deposit.

We pay something like $17 a month for unlimited checking, unlimited debit transactions (6 free per month from other teller machines), unlimited money orders or international cashier's checks, and there's more that we don't use or I can't remember.
I think per particular union you have to have particular qualifications.. some are based on area, some on job, some are set up for particular companies.. I didn't have any luck the last time I looked for them around here.


Originally Posted by arie85

Do you think I should do it?
Definitely and if you are really mad enough, and have a legal complaint, putting an ad in the newspaper (small one, cheap ad) for people who have had the same problem and get them to file a complaint too. Banks do illegal and unethical crap all the time, much like credit card companies, and get away with it because no one will fight them. Even if you don't go that far, you should *definitely* file a personal complaint against them.

Originally Posted by icklemiss21

I would go in and find out what the problem is before lodging any complaints.

My mastercard issuer once put my card on hold because I was travelling through different countries and also used it online and they wanted to know how I was in Poland and the US at the same time, it is a safety feature there to protect the customer from fraudulent use of their card, it may be sorted easily.
I think they told her that they just didn't want her as a customer anymore (not in those exact words) and that the papers she signed at opening said that they could cancel her account at any time without reason, which is what they did?

Of course, the viewpoint of one *snotty* employee may not be the same thing you hear from a different employee. One incident can sometimes sound like two completely different things depending on who's telling it.
 

crazyforinfo

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Originally Posted by Cairo

Another thing is that savings accounts can't have more than 4 online transactions a month. This is a regulation and not something that your bank gets to decide on. They are allowed to give you one warning the first time you do it. The second time you do it they can either convert your account to a checking or close the account.
Actually it's 3 transactions that are not conducted in person. First two are warning, 3rd time the close the account. They can either put the funds in a checking account, mail a check/money order or hold the funds until the customer goes into a branch.
 

crazyforinfo

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Originally Posted by arie85

I was there once and signed on the papers and even made a cash deposit, what else do they need me for? They are the ones who let you use the computer or telephone to make transactions, and I think it is meant to make life easier and more comfortable, but between comfort and security there is bureaucracy and the banks eat up themselves with that thing because they really can't manage it
The bank may require your signature to release the funds.
Read up about the Patriot Act. Banks are required to have 2 pieces of ID on their system. If they do not have the proper id, contact info or SSI they are required to close the account. This is a government regulation but a bank rule. The government also tells the bank what ID's are acceptable. The bank may choose to accept half the list but they can't accept anything that isn't stated on the government list. For instance my bank(I worked at for 7 years) would not accept Non-Driver's license but did accept: Government ID, Driver's license, & Passport. There are other rules for non-Americans in the US. This all about after September 11th.
 

cairo

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Originally Posted by icklemiss21

I would go in and find out what the problem is before lodging any complaints.
I agree! You really have no grounds to file a complaint if you don't comply with the basic requests they may have made, especially if they closed the account based on ID needs. I would pay them a visit and try to find out what went wrong before filing any complaints.

Originally Posted by Crazyforinfo

Actually it's 3 transactions that are not conducted in person. First two are warning, 3rd time the close the account. They can either put the funds in a checking account, mail a check/money order or hold the funds until the customer goes into a branch.
^ True. It's been a year since I did my last compliance course.


Originally Posted by Crazyforinfo

The bank may require your signature to release the funds.
Read up about the Patriot Act. Banks are required to have 2 pieces of ID on their system. If they do not have the proper id, contact info or SSI they are required to close the account. This is a government regulation but a bank rule. The government also tells the bank what ID's are acceptable. The bank may choose to accept half the list but they can't accept anything that isn't stated on the government list. For instance my bank(I worked at for 7 years) would not accept Non-Driver's license but did accept: Government ID, Driver's license, & Passport. There are other rules for non-Americans in the US. This all about after September 11th.
^ And for very good reason. It's not fair to get angry at the banks over these regulations. It's usually a simple request they're asking of you. What's a few minutes to show a valid ID? You'd be amazed at the amount of amount of criminal activity is discovered based on banking activity. It's nothing to get paranoid about. Almost every other country has been doing this and more long before 9/11.

Also these regulations were way overdue before 9/11, as it helps fight local crime that also hurts our country such as major drug traficking.

----

As for opening an account overseas because you are upset with a bank here, I don't think that's a good idea. Any country or union with respectable banking laws will have similar requirements to US banking laws (we copy and are copied a lot by others). If you're looking for something less strict, you'll find your money is not insured and you never know what the foreign "bank" will decide to do with your money a month from now.
 

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Originally Posted by Cairo

As for opening an account overseas because you are upset with a bank here, I don't think that's a good idea. Any country or union with respectable banking laws will have similar requirements to US banking laws (we copy and are copied a lot by others). If you're looking for something less strict, you'll find your money is not insured and you never know what the foreign "bank" will decide to do with your money a month from now.
Also, the government may start monitoring your money transfers which could inadvertently cause you grief.
 

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My experience has been that sometimes service at a bank is dependent on the management at any particular time. I've used banks and trust companies that have given me small amounts of grief but it was due solely to the management at that time. I've been a customer of CIBC for about 30 years and have had no problems with them at all. They have assigned one of their people to be our "personal banker". Anything I need or information I require, I simply call her and she looks after our needs.

About a month after we moved some years ago, we needed a small loan ($1,000) for about 1 month before I had some money I was expecting. My hubby's bank Manager (he uses a different bank than I do) transferred the $1,000 to my account in another bank that very day, and all he did was ask that we come in sometime over the next few weeks and sign the loan papers. So essentially he gave us the money without our signatures.

I think you should make an appointment and go in personally to see the bank manager and get all the information before taking any further steps. It may well be just a huge mixup and easily straightened out. It may also serve to put you in a better relationship with the bank so that any future problems would be resolved in a more friendly manner.
 
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arie85

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Originally Posted by Crazyforinfo

The bank may require your signature to release the funds.
Read up about the Patriot Act. Banks are required to have 2 pieces of ID on their system. If they do not have the proper id, contact info or SSI they are required to close the account. This is a government regulation but a bank rule. The government also tells the bank what ID's are acceptable. The bank may choose to accept half the list but they can't accept anything that isn't stated on the government list. For instance my bank(I worked at for 7 years) would not accept Non-Driver's license but did accept: Government ID, Driver's license, & Passport. There are other rules for non-Americans in the US. This all about after September 11th.
I gave them my driving license, my SS card, my state ID card and my US Passport when I opened the account, that is definitely not the reason to the account closure.
After talking to them they told me the reason was this:

We had to close your account since the fact that you sent too many wires online. This type of transactions isn't appropriate for your account, which is a Personal account, thus you must have a Business account in order to make such transactions. In addition, we'd like to remind you that according to our Terms & Conditions we have the right to close your account at anytime with or without reason.

That is more or less what they said.

So I asked them:

You say you can close my account without a reason?

And they said:

Yes, that is correct, we have no obligation to explain why we do a such step, even though you got your explanation already which is the wires issues.

And I ask them:

I did like 5 or 6 wires, what exactly is wrong with it? Look, I did transfer money to my relative here, here it was for a company etc etc...

And they have the nerve to tell me:

It doesn't matter what you did. If you want to make a wire transfer you should either go to the branch and make it from there or don't make it at all. The online feature is for ***Business Accounts*** not a personal account.

And I:

What, are you crazy or what? When I opened the account I got the option and the feature to use ***Online Banking*** - your online banking provides me with an option to send wires online! So you should either take off this option from Perosnal accounts and put it only for Business ones, or you should don't play with people, this is ridiculous!

And this lady goes:

I'm sorry, but there's nothing I can do about it. Is there anything else I can assist you with?

 

catsarebetter

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Originally Posted by Cairo

I agree! You really have no grounds to file a complaint if you don't comply with the basic requests they may have made, especially if they closed the account based on ID needs. I would pay them a visit and try to find out what went wrong before filing any complaints.
She very well may have grounds, even if she didn't comply with whatever their terms and conditions are, or whatever basic requests they may have made. Simply because the bank says that's the way it is does not necessarily mean that the bank is complying with laws. People sign "no sue" clauses all the time and while you can agree to arbitrate first, you can never legally sign away your right to sue (not that this particularly applies to the bank. It's just an example of things people sign and think it's a law because they signed it.)

Originally Posted by Yosemite

My experience has been that sometimes service at a bank is dependent on the management at any particular time. I've used banks and trust companies that have given me small amounts of grief but it was due solely to the management at that time. I've been a customer of CIBC for about 30 years and have had no problems with them at all. They have assigned one of their people to be our "personal banker". Anything I need or information I require, I simply call her and she looks after our needs.
I think you should make an appointment and go in personally to see the bank manager and get all the information before taking any further steps. It may well be just a huge mixup and easily straightened out. It may also serve to put you in a better relationship with the bank so that any future problems would be resolved in a more friendly manner.
Definitely talk to the manager.

Originally Posted by arie85

I gave them my driving license, my SS card, my state ID card and my US Passport when I opened the account, that is definitely not the reason to the account closure.
After talking to them they told me the reason was this:

We had to close your account since the fact that you sent too many wires online. This type of transactions isn't appropriate for your account, which is a Personal account, thus you must have a Business account in order to make such transactions. In addition, we'd like to remind you that according to our Terms & Conditions we have the right to close your account at anytime with or without reason.

That is more or less what they said.

So I asked them:

You say you can close my account without a reason?

And they said:

Yes, that is correct, we have no obligation to explain why we do a such step, even though you got your explanation already which is the wires issues.

And I ask them:

I did like 5 or 6 wires, what exactly is wrong with it? Look, I did transfer money to my relative here, here it was for a company etc etc...

And they have the nerve to tell me:

It doesn't matter what you did. If you want to make a wire transfer you should either go to the branch and make it from there or don't make it at all. The online feature is for ***Business Accounts*** not a personal account.

And I:

What, are you crazy or what? When I opened the account I got the option and the feature to use ***Online Banking*** - your online banking provides me with an option to send wires online! So you should either take off this option from Perosnal accounts and put it only for Business ones, or you should don't play with people, this is ridiculous!

And this lady goes:

I'm sorry, but there's nothing I can do about it. Is there anything else I can assist you with?

If their online banking system is set up for people with personal accounts to do wire transfers then I don't see how the fault lies with you. If they grant you that access with a personal account, then that's on them, and obviously as an institution with a website that will allow that transaction, it's on them. I've never had an online account that will allow you to do things that you aren't allowed to do from your account. The links just simply aren't offered, or you'll get an error message saying, you can't do this from your account, or.. something to that effect.
 

menasmom

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Cousin Eddie would bury his money in coffee jars and bury them in various places all over his property...

Sorry, but I needed to write that. I find humor in everything. It's what keeps me from having a meltdown.
(By the way, Cousin Eddie is the character from the "Vegas Vacation" and other "vacation" movies).
 

icklemiss21

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On my account, I have my savings, chequing and a joint chequing linked so the options for my personal chequing (which is the higher tier plan as the one I do most of my banking from) shows for all three and is not included in my plan.

It is quite unusual for a personal business customer to do wire transfers, my mum and I occasionally wire money to each other and I had to get permission from the bank to set that up on my account (otherwise the bank can hold the funds for a month or until you change the account to one that allows it) and we send maybe 4 a year each.
 

catsarebetter

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I currently have four accounts, between two different banks, and as an online customer (or for that matter, as a customer even if you're not online), they both transfer money for free within their bank, from account to account. I transfer money between my accounts (within the same bank) on a regular basis. I can even transfer money to my mother with no problems because she's got an account there too, although I can't do that online since I'm not linked to her account.

I am not sure what qualifies as a wire transfer, but we certainly do online checks and payments frequently. Perhaps we're thinking of different things (or I'm thinking of something different) but I don't see it as unusual in today's high tech internet based world. Not at all. And given that technology they surely should have been able to have their webmaster make it available to those customers who qualify for it and not to those who don't, even between accounts for the same customer.

That being said, I don't think she had multiple accounts there, but even if she did... it's like the bank saying.... here's a free toaster. Take your free toaster. Oh, you took the toaster, geeze, well, now we have to close your account.
 

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Originally Posted by CatsAreBetter

I currently have four accounts, between two different banks, and as an online customer (or for that matter, as a customer even if you're not online), they both transfer money for free within their bank, from account to account. I transfer money between my accounts (within the same bank) on a regular basis. I can even transfer money to my mother with no problems because she's got an account there too, although I can't do that online since I'm not linked to her account.

I am not sure what qualifies as a wire transfer, but we certainly do online checks and payments frequently. Perhaps we're thinking of different things (or I'm thinking of something different) but I don't see it as unusual in today's high tech internet based world. Not at all. And given that technology they surely should have been able to have their webmaster make it available to those customers who qualify for it and not to those who don't, even between accounts for the same customer.

That being said, I don't think she had multiple accounts there, but even if she did... it's like the bank saying.... here's a free toaster. Take your free toaster. Oh, you took the toaster, geeze, well, now we have to close your account.
A wire transfer is sent from one bank to another bank through FedWire. The funds are immediately w/d from the customers account, deposited in the banks wiring account and sent electrically to the receiving bank to disperse to the customer.

Personal accounts are NOT allowed to do wires online where I worked.
Arie...that bank needs to update their software but it's easier said than done.
 
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arie85

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Originally Posted by Crazyforinfo

Personal accounts are NOT allowed to do wires online where I worked.
Arie...that bank needs to update their software but it's easier said than done.
I'm going to find it out, but really thank you for that info and all those who gave me info above, it's really helping

by the way all the above isn't related to the website in my signature (the gptreasure one), this website is something I'm not working alone on it and we have a Business account and business registered with a lawyer and all the proper and appropriate by-the-book steps

So that is why it's freaking me out, I used my personal account to make personal transfers and yet the account got closed :\\

So yeah... I will try and find out what exactly is the problem with it

Thanks again
 

crazyforinfo

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Originally Posted by arie85

I'm going to find it out, but really thank you for that info and all those who gave me info above, it's really helping

by the way all the above isn't related to the website in my signature (the gptreasure one), this website is something I'm not working alone on it and we have a Business account and business registered with a lawyer and all the proper and appropriate by-the-book steps

So that is why it's freaking me out, I used my personal account to make personal transfers and yet the account got closed :\\

So yeah... I will try and find out what exactly is the problem with it

Thanks again
Did you ever transfer Business to personal?
 
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