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9/11 Conspiracies on The History Channel

post #1 of 25
Thread Starter 
Did anyone else catch this last night? It's on a couple more times this week:

http://www.history.com/shows.do?acti...isodeId=240087

and it looks like it originally aired earlier this month.

Anyway, it looks at many of the conspiracy theories surrounding 9/11 and has experts discuss whether or not these theories are plausible. To a one, the conspiracy theorists come across as nutjobs. I mean, you have these 3 (now) college students who made "Loose Change", a documentary about the conspiracy theories, saying that the buildings couldn't have fallen like that against structural engineers who are explaining the technical side of why the buildings did fall that way.

But the one that just made me so angry was how some claimed that the phone calls from Flight 93 were faked - that the people who called home just before their deaths weren't really those passengers but some government people faking the whole thing. I would really like for those to look those family members in the eyes, the ones who treasure those last words from their loved ones, and tell them that they are too brainwashed to recognize their loved one's voice.
post #2 of 25
I saw part of it V. I couldn't take it though so I turned the channel.

I didn't see that part of it about the Flight 93 phone calls. People are so hurtful.

I laughed at some of the stupid signs. I REALLY laughed when I saw the illustrious maker of "Loose Change" that people look up to. He is a pimply faced youngster. Oh, he's a real expert, NOT. I hope Rosie was watching.
post #3 of 25
The conspiracy theorists always seem to overlook the one rule of clandestine operations (I was never an operative, but I did get to support a couple on the miltary side).

Rule number 1. Keep it simple!!! Extremely sophisticated operations LOOK like extremely sophisticated operations, and are therefore avoided. If you can take an object that the government wants by picking locks, cracking safes, dancing ballet through laser sensors, wearing absorbing suits to mask body heat and using all sorts of neat, hi-tech gadgets.....or you can knock out a window; they will knock out a window.

..and reality number 1. People talk. To pull off something as vast as what the "loose change" authors suggest would require the actions and cooperation of vast, and I mean vast amounts of people! And, some of them are going to feel guilty, or feel slighted, or feel to need to look important, or just get drunk and act stupid, and they're going to say something to someone. Something of that magnitude could not be kept secret.
post #4 of 25
Thread Starter 
Yeah, and they are accusing the government of this grandiose plan. The same government who cannot keep anything a secret...they are worse than the average group of people at keeping secrets.
post #5 of 25
Great Point Skippy. Dang, I wish someone would say that to Rosie
post #6 of 25
Now the concept of conspiracy theory has always amazed me. Why do people feel the need to question the reality that they experienced?

Ohhhh.... I think I found my next project.
post #7 of 25
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by lookingglass View Post
Now the concept of conspiracy theory has always amazed me. Why do people feel the need to question the reality that they experienced?

Ohhhh.... I think I found my next project.
They kind of talked about this point. They said that it's difficult for some people to believe that such a monumental event in our history was pulled off by, essentially, a bunch of nobodys. So, in order to wrap their minds around this huge event, they have to come up with an equally huge plot for the event.
post #8 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skippymjp View Post
The conspiracy theorists always seem to overlook the one rule of clandestine operations (I was never an operative, but I did get to support a couple on the miltary side).

Rule number 1. Keep it simple!!! Extremely sophisticated operations LOOK like extremely sophisticated operations, and are therefore avoided. If you can take an object that the government wants by picking locks, cracking safes, dancing ballet through laser sensors, wearing absorbing suits to mask body heat and using all sorts of neat, hi-tech gadgets.....or you can knock out a window; they will knock out a window.

..and reality number 1. People talk. To pull off something as vast as what the "loose change" authors suggest would require the actions and cooperation of vast, and I mean vast amounts of people! And, some of them are going to feel guilty, or feel slighted, or feel to need to look important, or just get drunk and act stupid, and they're going to say something to someone. Something of that magnitude could not be kept secret.
Well, and I'm not saying that I'm buying into the conspiracy theory... I didn't even see the show, but.. point in hand.. *if* this were actually a conspiracy.. how many people would *actually* buy it if it leaked? They don't really have to keep it a secret because there's no proof, and some people are going to believe it, and some aren't. There are plenty of top secret things that the military is doing that they're managing to keep quiet, I'm sure...but anyway, the point here is... *if* this was actually a conspiracy, look at how many people don't believe it... would it really matter if the story leaked?

Just a thought.
post #9 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by lookingglass View Post
Now the concept of conspiracy theory has always amazed me. Why do people feel the need to question the reality that they experienced?

Ohhhh.... I think I found my next project.
I tend to think of the advertisement for the Science Channel: "Do you know someone who seems to know everything?"

IMO Conspiracy theorist (more or less) are people that believe they know more then the experts. Not all, but most really have that level of thought about themselves.

I remember one interview with an architect that helped rebuilt the WTC in after the first bombings in the 1990s and he did admit that he never expected the building to fall they way they did. However he did go on to explain why it did happen.

I'm surprised no one has mentioned the possibility of David Copperfield making this one big [disgusting] magic trick
post #10 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by CatsAreBetter View Post
Well, and I'm not saying that I'm buying into the conspiracy theory... I didn't even see the show, but.. point in hand.. *if* this were actually a conspiracy.. how many people would *actually* buy it if it leaked? They don't really have to keep it a secret because there's no proof, and some people are going to believe it, and some aren't. There are plenty of top secret things that the military is doing that they're managing to keep quiet, I'm sure...but anyway, the point here is... *if* this was actually a conspiracy, look at how many people don't believe it... would it really matter if the story leaked?

Just a thought.
All very good points Heather

But all of the conspiracy theorists have one thing in common, and that is that their theory's all begin "Here is what I think really happened..." That puts everything they say into the realm of opinion. But if a Boeing employee were to come forward and say "about 6 weeks before 9/11, we had to weld this weird looking luggage bay onto a plane for some customer", now THAT would draw attention, possibly even an investigation. All of the CIA's special equipment is contracted out, their planes, their vehicles...simply because their agents don't have the expertise to build this stuff themselves. A missile or rocket launcher inside the radome of a Boeing would be a MAJOR airframe change, and one not done easily even by the people that built the plane. And I believe that even the people that do the baddest things have some good in them, and that would start to gnaw at them eventually.

The military is able to keep many, many things secret....like how the guidance system of a HARM missile works, or how far the stealth fighter can fly with a single load of fuel. But when it deals with the death of innocent people, such as 9/11 did, or the My Lai massacre in Vietnam, or the Iraqis in Haditha; people will come forward.

And no one has.
post #11 of 25
Did that show address the issues surrounding the airliner that was flown into the Pentagon? There are people who believe it was a missle, not Flight 77. I, for one, find it rather strange that the hole produced was too small for an airplane of that size to fit through. And that no aircraft debris was seen. And that the lawn was unscathed. Among other things that just don't fit.

http://www.the7thfire.com/Politics%2...Flight-77.html
http://www.freedomfiles.org/war/pentagon.htm
http://www.geocities.com/s911surpris...nes_flight_77/
http://www.asile.org/citoyens/numero...temoins_en.htm
post #12 of 25
Thread Starter 
Yes, they did address that, all of the things you just mentioned. Honestly, though, as it was a 2 hour special and I was kinda dumbfounded by some of these theories, I don't recall the details of the expert analysis, but I do know it was discussed. I know they said that yes, there was debris and human remains - that was from one of the first responders to the site. And I believe they said that the wings of the plane were sheared off but those, and the engines, were also on the site. I know they did explain the size of the hole and how it went through 2 full layers of the Pentagon and finished with a 16' diameter hole, but I don't recall the specifics.
post #13 of 25
I watched it cause I was trying to fall asleep, and I'd actually seen it all before. I'm sorry, I have no respect for these people. I have a big hole in the back part of our property, which *I* could put on a website and say "Yep, that's where 93 came down..."

I will probably never dispute that there is always information that could have prevented any tragegy, that includes Pearl Harbor, but that information is only a small fragment of what intellegence agencies gather daily. Some tragedies are prevented and others happen, that's a fact, but to say our government orchestrated these occurances...well, that just annoys me. And yeah, the Israelis did it. They also blew up their athletes at Munich to gain attention.
post #14 of 25
Commercial aircraft are largely aluminum. The small hole was probably made by a landing gear strut or onboard generator unit after all the aluminum parts were stripped away.

An average man can cut the wing off a 707 with a sharp axe in about 20 minutes (except for the steel cables). It's not hard stuff.
post #15 of 25
please, tell the history channel to stop,
People want the truth, they cant handle the truth.


lol and people dont care if its the real trruth or not, just so it matches there crazy movie plot from the evil goverment.
post #16 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by coaster View Post
Did that show address the issues surrounding the airliner that was flown into the Pentagon? There are people who believe it was a missle, not Flight 77. I, for one, find it rather strange that the hole produced was too small for an airplane of that size to fit through. And that no aircraft debris was seen. And that the lawn was unscathed. Among other things that just don't fit.
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that is wrong, i remember, seeing the parts all over the lawn, along with a wheel.

lol along with having a college friend that has worked there for years.

i will say again, its is more fun for people to get into all of this, how the truth is just to boring, so they make up these things.. i also think it is because they stopped playing the tapes of the event. it gives people time to make up there ideas.

Yep aircraft are very light, i have seen 3 people move a small jet, and even the commerical jets, look at the size the machine used to push them around.
post #17 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by theimp98 View Post
that is wrong, i remember, seeing the parts all over the lawn, along with a wheel.

lol along with having a college friend that has worked there for years.

i will say again, its is more fun for people to get into all of this, how the truth is just to boring, so they make up these things.. i also think it is because they stopped playing the tapes of the event. it gives people time to make up there ideas.

Yep aircraft are very light, i have seen 3 people move a small jet, and even the commerical jets, look at the size the machine used to push them around.
I was on Okinawa when the last of the Marine Corps C-117's were replaced by the UC-12 Utility aircraft. The C-12's came with their own support machines, and we all laughed when we saw that it's "ground tow" was a lawn tractor.
post #18 of 25
I'm definitely going to have to watch that show. Thanks, Heidi, for posting about it.
post #19 of 25
A really good one is called loose change. I seen it on the internet. It really makes you wonder.
post #20 of 25
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by luvmycat1 View Post
A really good one is called loose change. I seen it on the internet. It really makes you wonder.
Wonder, perhaps. Refute it with people who actually know what they are talking about, like engineers and eyewitnesses, and Loose Change starts sounding pretty far fetched. Did you know that the guy who started it was 18 when he wrote it? And did you know that they're working on the 3rd revision, dumping the theories that have been totally disproven? Did you know that these 3 young men have ZERO expertise in any field relating to anything 9/11?

Since Loose Change is one of the most popular and widely seen documentaries supporting the conspiracy theories, this program used it extensively as a source of what the theories are that are out there.
post #21 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by luvmycat1 View Post
A really good one is called loose change. I seen it on the internet. It really makes you wonder.
Loose Change was made by a pimply-faced teenager.
They show him on the History Channel program we are talking about here.
I don't take teenagers to seriously.
post #22 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by theimp98 View Post
People want the truth, they cant handle the truth.
Hehe, and *that* quote didn't come from the history channel, unless they were featuring Jack. Now we know what Bruce has been watching.
post #23 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by coaster View Post
Did that show address the issues surrounding the airliner that was flown into the Pentagon? There are people who believe it was a missle, not Flight 77. I, for one, find it rather strange that the hole produced was too small for an airplane of that size to fit through. And that no aircraft debris was seen. And that the lawn was unscathed. Among other things that just don't fit.

http://www.the7thfire.com/Politics%2...Flight-77.html
http://www.freedomfiles.org/war/pentagon.htm
http://www.geocities.com/s911surpris...nes_flight_77/
http://www.asile.org/citoyens/numero...temoins_en.htm
For what it's worth: My best friend and her husband were good friends with one of the women (and her husband) who was on Flight 77. Her husband said that they were speaking and she was very aware of what was happening to the plane - she was calling to say good-bye to him. Tricia (my best firend) and Joe went to her funeral and her husband spent time with them at their home in Cooperstown, NY. I have known her for alomst 40 years and I know that she is telling the truth.
post #24 of 25
I'm curious....was there any indication that they (the passengers) were aware of what their target was?
post #25 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by coaster View Post
I'm curious....was there any indication that they (the passengers) were aware of what their target was?
As I recall, when I was visiting with my friends, and we talked about the people we knew who had perished on 9/11, Joe said that Barbara had called her husband and told him what was happening. She saw the Pentagon outside of her window. I think everyone on that plane new, by that time, exactly what was happening. Remember, by that time thetwin towers had all ready been hit.
What I can't forget, even now, is the 6 degrees of separation that I, personally had. Between myself and my two best friends, we knew 14 people who died on 9/11. Keep in mind that I was living outside of Boston, and there were alot of people from New England on those planes. In fact, my hairdresser and her daughter were on one flight. Additionally, I trained at the World Trade Center in 1997, when I was working for a very large investment firm. Fortunately, everyone that I knew who worked there made it out of the twin towers safely.
I am sure that many of you have those same 6 degrees of saparation as well.
Never Forget.
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