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I have a complaint about Petfinder - Page 6  

post #151 of 177
If I'm looking for a mixed breed cat, I'd adopt from the shelters, etc. - I like certain types and colors. If I'm looking for a purebred, then I'll go to a reputable breeder!

I'm not gonna pick up a "look a like" in the shelter, so why label the cat as such?
post #152 of 177
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldenKitty45 View Post
If I'm looking for a mixed breed cat, I'd adopt from the shelters, etc. - I like certain types and colors. If I'm looking for a purebred, then I'll go to a reputable breeder!

I'm not gonna pick up a "look a like" in the shelter, so why label the cat as such?
because most folks cannot afford to spend $500-$1000 on a cat! and some folks don't feel right buying a cat, when there are so many in a shelter.
post #153 of 177
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldenKitty45 View Post
If I'm looking for a mixed breed cat, I'd adopt from the shelters, etc. - I like certain types and colors. If I'm looking for a purebred, then I'll go to a reputable breeder!

I'm not gonna pick up a "look a like" in the shelter, so why label the cat as such?

We could go round and round in circles on the matter. We've already explained that in many cases the vet has labelled the cat as "such and such MIX" or "such and such". Or we have vet records from the previous owner (rarer but still happens) where it lists the cat as a particuliar breed or mix.

I can't answer why people choose the shelter/rescue route and opt for a look a like, but we do have people who say "I saw such and such mix and it reminded me of my old such and such mix that I had that just passed away" or they are simply attracted to the "look" of the cat. Perhaps they would just like to save a life.

I do believe as we get the populations under control through pre-adoptive spay/neuter, reduce spay/neuter for owned pets and TNR, the labelling of animals will become more accurate. Nothing is full proof, but I think it really will require a collaboration between responsible breeders and shelters/rescues to make this change but it's not going to happen overnight.

Katie
post #154 of 177
Quote:
Originally Posted by katiemae1277 View Post
because most folks cannot afford to spend $500-$1000 on a cat! and some folks don't feel right buying a cat, when there are so many in a shelter.
BINGO, give that woman a prize.

I would LOVE a Burmese but no WAY would I EVER buy from a breeder, any breeder and I do have the money.
But that is just me. I am, certainly, not Cat Fancier.


(BTW, I am NOT against reputable breeders, I just can't, in good conscience buy from a breeder with all the homeless dogs and cats in this country)


I also agree with Abymummy, get rid of all the back yard breeders and this would be a much better world.
post #155 of 177
Thread Starter 
I agree with you about getting rid of BYB. However, I don't really think that is the real answer to stopping this cat and dog over population, it might be a start, but it's not going to stop all of the moggies that breed freely.

BYB, are usually breeding pure breds, even if they're lesser quality purebreds, they're usually purebreds. BYB aren't really particular about who adopts their dogs or cats, and that's a big problem, right there, because I think that is more than likely how a lot purebred animals end up in shelters is that they sell them to people who really aren't going to care for them properly. BYB don't have rules about whether or not the cat can go outside, or whether they can be declawed et et. So, that is how they end up with purebred mixes, sometimes living in feral communities.

I think the biggest step would be to get rid of the feral communities somehow or at least to spay and neuter them all so that there would be no more chances of them reproducing. Also, there should be laws that stop people except registered breeders from keeping their cats or dogs in tact, and everyone who has moggies should be required by law to spay and neuter their cats and dogs before they are of breeding age.

Since breed specific cats and dogs are still a very very small percentage of what you find in a shelter, I don't think even the BYB are the BIGGEST problem. It's the people who have moggies that they keep in tact and let run the streets. They mate with all of their neighbors in tact cats, as well as the feral in tact population over and over. I know a lot of people who don't even THINK about spaying or neutering, and I know a lot of them, who let their cats go outside when ever they want to. I see cats running the streets in every neighborhood, some of them, you know have a home. I think the first step is to educate people about spaying and neutering and to not allow them to own cats or dogs if they don't get them spayed or neutered.
post #156 of 177
I think that's it in a nutshell, Hope, if everyone would just get their pet fixed, if no shleter would let a pet go without being fixed, if TNR was more accepted, but as many advances as have been made in this, we are still light years away from resolving the problem, and until there are no more homeless cats, we do what needs to be done to get them a home
post #157 of 177
Quote:
Originally Posted by katiemae1277 View Post
I think that's it in a nutshell, Hope, if everyone would just get their pet fixed, if no shleter would let a pet go without being fixed, if TNR was more accepted, but as many advances as have been made in this, we are still light years away from resolving the problem, and until there are no more homeless cats, we do what needs to be done to get them a home
True...but let's remember that TNR started as a grass roots effort and only recently became a more widely accepted practice. I do think we are making great strides....more groups are getting on board with TNR, more groups are getting low cost clinics for their community, more groups are getting pre adoptive spay/neuter...we just need to stay the course.

Katie
post #158 of 177
Good post Hope.

I know here, the local Humane Society will do TNR. The local HS here is great.
post #159 of 177
because most folks cannot afford to spend $500-$1000 on a cat! and some folks don't feel right buying a cat, when there are so many in a shelter.

I have no argument with that - but why label a cat as a "purebred" mix? You're not getting a purebred in the shelter - you're getting mixes (at least 95% are). And my argument is that they should not be labeled a breed unless it really is a breed.
post #160 of 177
Quote:
Originally Posted by HopeHacker View Post
I think the biggest step would be to get rid of the feral communities somehow or at least to spay and neuter them all so that there would be no more chances of them reproducing. Also, there should be laws that stop people except registered breeders from keeping their cats or dogs in tact, and everyone who has moggies should be required by law to spay and neuter their cats and dogs before they are of breeding age.
First, many cities do have that law and it doesn't make the slightest difference, the people who do not speuter are the same people who do not register or license their pets so the 'authorities' don't know they have them to check if they are fixed.

Secondly, Animal Control in most areas barely have the funds to do what they are doing now without checking the status of speuters, it just doesn't work outside a small community, and those smaller communities tend to think cats exist to be mousers anyway.

So unfortunately it just doesn't work out like that

As far as ferals, there are TNR programs to fix them to stop them reproducing, but it is still a fairly new idea, and unless people help with it, it can never become widespread.

As far as getting rid of them, why PTS just because they have always been out alone because someone threw a un-neutered cat out and it bred like nature tells it to. Some can be socialised and the love in a feral when they come to trust you is amazing. I have two I work with in my shelter, for the first time today one of them curled up on my lap and let me stroke her without watching my every move or snapping or cowering when I put my hand near her head, we were all in tears over the progress she is making and she will make a great pet for someone... why doesn't she deserve a chance because she is (was) feral?


Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldenKitty45 View Post

I have no argument with that - but why label a cat as a "purebred" mix? You're not getting a purebred in the shelter - you're getting mixes (at least 95% are). And my argument is that they should not be labeled a breed unless it really is a breed.
Because they are not labelled as a breed, it is a search term, it clearly states that they are labelled according to a characteristic and are in the majority of cases a mix while some labelled domestics may in fact be purebreds and we don't know it.
post #161 of 177
I did a petfinder search for bengals in my area. Here are just a few of results.
I got a good chuckle out of it. There is no bengal in any of these cats, and they aren't typos, errors, mistakes. I think with these four examples even the public will know, these cats don't even remotely resemble a bengal and they are not bengal mixes.
If any Vet put down on paper that these were bengal mixes, I would recommend that they return to Vet school for a few more semesters.


http://search.petfinder.com/petnote/...?petid=8620248

http://search.petfinder.com/petnote/...?petid=7005338

http://search.petfinder.com/petnote/...?petid=8225033

http://search.petfinder.com/petnote/...?petid=8305179
post #162 of 177
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldenKitty45 View Post
because most folks cannot afford to spend $500-$1000 on a cat! and some folks don't feel right buying a cat, when there are so many in a shelter.

I have no argument with that - but why label a cat as a "purebred" mix? You're not getting a purebred in the shelter - you're getting mixes (at least 95% are). And my argument is that they should not be labeled a breed unless it really is a breed.
Ah! But then why label a dog as a Lab/GSD X? Aren't they just a "mixed breed" in the same token as a cat is a mixed breed?

You gotta admit, some dogs are just plain mutts. So why label them as breeds on Petfinder, why isn't "DSH/DMH/DLH" a choice then?

Because people see those breeds & that is what gets the dog adopted!
post #163 of 177
I agree that they don't look like Bengals but

(1) is the only cat with a breed in that shelter so it either is a mistake or someone told them it has bengal in it so they have to state that

(2) again is one of only a few cats with a breed and it states mix

(3) again is one of only a few cats with a breed, with the majority of others being 'domestic xxx hair'

(4) again is one of only a few cats with a breed, with the majority of others being 'domestic xxx hair'

The shelter who 'name' EVERY cat a breed, I can understand why people would be upset at, but these have either been given a breed by a vet or someone above the shelter, or came from a animal control raid on a BYB and AC gave the breeds as those are usually checked by the city vet and not shelter vet, as the others are domestics on their lists
post #164 of 177
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kai Bengals View Post
I did a petfinder search for bengals in my area. Here are just a few of results.
I got a good chuckle out of it. There is no bengal in any of these cats, and they aren't typos, errors, mistakes. I think with these four examples even the public will know, these cats don't even remotely resemble a bengal and they are not bengal mixes.
If any Vet put down on paper that these were bengal mixes, I would recommend that they return to Vet school for a few more semesters.


http://search.petfinder.com/petnote/...?petid=8620248

http://search.petfinder.com/petnote/...?petid=7005338

http://search.petfinder.com/petnote/...?petid=8225033

http://search.petfinder.com/petnote/...?petid=8305179
But you looked at them. That is what, IMO, the breed labeling of cats is for. To get you to at least look. Because if you look, you read the bio. And who knows, maybe something in the bio makes the kitty stand out. And then you adopt the kitty.
post #165 of 177
Following Kai Bengals' example, I did a search in my local area for Siamese ... and while yes, there ~are~ several kitties in the group that ~appear~ to be pointed cats, these were also in the listing:

http://search.petfinder.com/petnote/...?petid=7610855

http://search.petfinder.com/petnote/...?petid=7947852

http://search.petfinder.com/petnote/...?petid=6264011

http://search.petfinder.com/petnote/...?petid=8618589

And these four listings were just on the first page. There were several additional pages that I didn't look at.
post #166 of 177
This is text from the Petfinder site:

"Breed Note: Many of these pets are mixes. In these cases, the breed listed is the one that best matches their looks and personality. Also, some of the pets presumed to be mixes may be purebred."


The second sentence lets them off the hook, but whoever is doing the uploading really needs to get some glasses and a good breed book with lots of pictures, because they are WAY off base on most of the cats they claim are mixes.
post #167 of 177
So here we hit an impasse...because I don't volunteer with the organizations that you have listed and no one truly can say what the motivation was behind the label. I think it would make FAR more sense to actually email the shelters/rescues in question and let them know that these cats do not fit the breed or even resemble a mix. Frankly, this circle conversation is getting old, it's getting tired..and guess what....we aren't going to solve it. So, you can continue to post links and be bitter...or you can try to make a positive change. It's really up to you. I will continue to volunteer with my organization...and I will continue to rely on the breed information provided by the vet.

Katie
post #168 of 177
Quote:
Originally Posted by gayef View Post
Following Kai Bengals' example, I did a search in my local area for Siamese ... and while yes, there ~are~ several kitties in the group that ~appear~ to be pointed cats, these were also in the listing:

http://search.petfinder.com/petnote/...?petid=7610855

http://search.petfinder.com/petnote/...?petid=7947852

http://search.petfinder.com/petnote/...?petid=6264011

http://search.petfinder.com/petnote/...?petid=8618589

And these four listings were just on the first page. There were several additional pages that I didn't look at.
I may be able to answer some of those. I've seen Siamese (maybe crosses, maybe not-but were pointed with blue eyes) females have litters of mix kittens in different colors than Siamese (making dad most definitely NOT Siamese). If the kitten was born in the shelter to a Siamese looking mom, they probably said "Siamese mix." Sometimes owners come in (surrenders) and they say kitty is a "Siamese mix". Again, kitty may not look Siamese but had a Siamese mom.

I have no idea about the calico and tabby & whites with the label Bengal or Bengal mix. The cats I remember people commenting on were brown tabbies with a spotted or classic tabby pattern (and no white).
post #169 of 177
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldenKitty45 View Post
because most folks cannot afford to spend $500-$1000 on a cat! and some folks don't feel right buying a cat, when there are so many in a shelter.

I have no argument with that - but why label a cat as a "purebred" mix? You're not getting a purebred in the shelter - you're getting mixes (at least 95% are). And my argument is that they should not be labeled a breed unless it really is a breed.
To increase adoptions. That is what it is all about. Whatever works.
post #170 of 177
IMO it doesn't matter if the cat is listed as a siamese mix cause one parent IS a siamese - point is, that if you had NO picture to go by, and the cat was NOT pointed - you would not be looking at it.

To call it a siamese mix is wrong because people would assume this cat to be pointed and its not!

If you wanted to mentioned in the text that mom was a siamese, fine, but don't label it a siamese mix when its not pointed.
post #171 of 177
Quote:
Originally Posted by TNR1 View Post
So here we hit an impasse...because I don't volunteer with the organizations that you have listed and no one truly can say what the motivation was behind the label. I think it would make FAR more sense to actually email the shelters/rescues in question and let them know that these cats do not fit the breed or even resemble a mix. Frankly, this circle conversation is getting old, it's getting tired..and guess what....we aren't going to solve it. So, you can continue to post links and be bitter...or you can try to make a positive change. It's really up to you. I will continue to volunteer with my organization...and I will continue to rely on the breed information provided by the vet.

Katie
I for one am not bitter. I've got nothing to be bitter about. Irked? Yep, just a little at the people in this thread who flat out refuse to see things for what they are, even with proof positive in the form of links right in front of their noses. That bugs me even more than the misrepresented petfinder ads.

But then again, this is about opinions on a subject. It's a debate and nothing more. We're not all on an appointed panel to set about making changes to an existing problem. Afterall, half of the people participating in this thread don't see a problem.

If I get bugged enough about what I see is a problem, then I will take whatever action I feel is warranted to affect a possible change.
post #172 of 177
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldenKitty45 View Post
IMO it doesn't matter if the cat is listed as a siamese mix cause one parent IS a siamese - point is, that if you had NO picture to go by, and the cat was NOT pointed - you would not be looking at it.

To call it a siamese mix is wrong because people would assume this cat to be pointed and its not!

If you wanted to mentioned in the text that mom was a siamese, fine, but don't label it a siamese mix when its not pointed.
It IS a Siamese mix if 1 parent IS Siamese.

By your logic there should not be 1/2 Arabians, etc. There are in fact MIXES of breeds (of all kinds of animals besides just cats) that 1 parent is papered/pedigreed and the other parent is of other or mixed parentage.

ETA: I hope this doesn't sound crabby. I was thinking about it and thought I should make sure no one thinks I'm being crabby. I'm just to the point in this post.
post #173 of 177
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by icklemiss21 View Post
As far as getting rid of them, why PTS just because they have always been out alone because someone threw a un-neutered cat out and it bred like nature tells it to. Some can be socialised and the love in a feral when they come to trust you is amazing. I have two I work with in my shelter, for the first time today one of them curled up on my lap and let me stroke her without watching my every move or snapping or cowering when I put my hand near her head, we were all in tears over the progress she is making and she will make a great pet for someone... why doesn't she deserve a chance because she is (was) feral?
I know my post probably wasn't clear on that, but I didn't mean to round up the ferals and put them to sleep. You can end the feral population, by TNR, or trying to socialize and find homes for some of them. I know there are people out there doing that, but the local and city and state governments should get involved also. Yes, it probably would cost more money at first, but in the long run, it would end up saving money, because the over crowding in shelters would go down.

As far as enforcing laws about Required spay and neutering all PET animals, again it would take a bit of money at first, but in the end it would save a lot of lives. They seem to have a budget for dog catchers, so I would think they could also have the dog catchers check out every home for intact pets, and write them a ticket. Maybe not EVERYONE won't abide by the laws, but it will surely cut down the amount of unwanted dogs and cats being born, and I have a feeling that the owner of an intact dog or cat won't be allowing it to roam free, if they knew they could get a big fine if they were caught.

I also don't believe that most people with purebred cats and dogs whether purchased from a BYB or a proper breeder let them roam free as much as people with moggies do. Yes, it does happen, either by intent or by accident, but most of the cats you see loose are moggies.

I think the shelters and rescue groups do a great service to animals, and I applaud what they do. However, I don't believe they should apply breed titles or even breed cross titles to any dog or cat, unless they are 100 percent certain that it is that breed, because chances are, it is NOT that breed, but may look something like that breed. Breed Look A Like is a much better term to use than to say it's a Bengal or a Bengal Cross (they don't KNOW that, so they shouldn't say it) Just call the cat a Bengal look-a-like. It's a much better term, and much more honest.
post #174 of 177
I am going around in circles here too but I will say it again

as far as enforcing the rules, the police can't make people follow laws just like regardless of giving them more money, animal control will never be able to force everyone to speuter. Here a vet will report you if they are not spayed / neutered, but if they are too cheap to speuter, they are usually too cheap to take them to a vet or license them too. Animal Control can not knock on your door and say let me search your premises for an animal you may be keeping intact even though we have no knowledge of you having animals.

Just because an animal doesn't look like a xxx breed doesn't mean it doesn't have that breed in it.

Petfinder only gives you options, it does say that they are basically guesses and that ones labelled DSH may be purebred, but I don't see anyone having a problem that the purebreds may be labelled as domestics, don't they deserve the same rights to labelling?

It would be great if petfinder gave look-a-like as an option but they don't, but if you go to the shelters website where they can type whatever, you may see the reasons why they are labelled as such or find that the shelter is calling them look a likes or is vocal like a Siamese etc.

As far as intact purebreds roaming free, less people have purebreds so there are LESS roaming free, but my guess would be precentage wise it is not all that different. There is a woman in my building who breeds her Siamese from an apartment building and allowed her Queen to roam the corridors until I reported her because her cat was driving mine crazy and ruined my front door. Another woman has a Maine Coon and puts it out at night because 'it is in its nature to hunt and it is noisy'.
post #175 of 177
I guess its more of a problem because we have breeders (including myself) that feel its deceptive. I get frustrated cause they are NOT anywhere close to the breed and it makes me upset.

For those who don't breed - well you guys really don't care how its labeled, but for those of us who do, it hits the wrong nerve with us!
post #176 of 177
Which I could understand if people were lying by stating 'this is a purebred' but they aren't and we don't understand why mixes upset people so much.
post #177 of 177
There's a lot of frustration in this thread, and I can't imagine that there's anything left to say. We all know how everyone feels. It's just going in circles and everyone knows it. We are not going to change any minds. Therefore, I am closing the thread.
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