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Cats Born Without Tails

post #1 of 19
Thread Starter 
I thought I'd share that on my grandparents' dairy farm, about a half a dozen cats have been born without tails (just little stubs). They seem just as healthy as the cats who have tails and they are actually quite adorable. Nobody is sure of how this genetic mutation occurred (inbreeding?). Anyone have any thoughts or encountered cats without tails before?

-Kristen
post #2 of 19
Bobtails are a natural occuring mutation. They are common near me because in the last 2 years I have gotten 2 bobtailed strays I had to find homes for.
post #3 of 19
Bobtails or Manx type cats are natural mutations. Doesn't mean inbreeding - and in the Manx you cannot breed tailless to tailless - it can be fatal or severe deformity.
post #4 of 19
Just like you cant breed Scottish Folds to Scottish Folds (both parents folded) and Standard Munchkins to each other....
post #5 of 19
Didn't know about the Munchkins - what happens when you bred short leg to short leg?
post #6 of 19
Thread Starter 
I clearly know very little about cat breeding , so thanks for giving me a little knowledge! While I'm at it...what's a munchkin?

-Kristen
post #7 of 19
post #8 of 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldenKitty45 View Post
Didn't know about the Munchkins - what happens when you bred short leg to short leg?
Breed two standards together and you may get fatal deformities just like the other breeds.
post #9 of 19
According to:

http://www.messybeast.com/shortlegs.htm

Munchkin-Munchkin breedings are common, without fatalities AFTER birth. It seems that litters from this mating are smaller than average, so it's believed that any embryos that are homozygous for the Munchkin gene die so early that they are reabsorbed. The only babies born are either heterozygous Munchkin or homozygous normal. Munchkin is dominant, so the heterozygous Munchkin will appear short legged, and the homozygous normal kittens would be long legged. If the genetics are simple, then a typical Munchkin-Munchkin breeding should produce 2/3 short legs, 1/3 long legs, and no fatal deformities.
post #10 of 19
Standard to non standard munchkins, yes.

Two standards together will give you the same results as mating two Scottish Folds (both folded) together.

Can be done but not advisable.
post #11 of 19
No, that's what it's saying, Standard-Standard IS common. It's not quite the same as Scottish Folds. With folds, breeding two folds produces about 25% kittens with serious defects. These kittens do not survive long and are in pain. Same happens with Manx, 25% of kittens from a tailless-tailless breeding will have serious defects.

The short leg gene is a little different. The double short leg gene is SO lethal that the 25% that would have been deformed aren't even ever born. They die when the embryos are still very small. So the mother's body just reabsorbs them. The result is no fatalities/deformities in the born litter, but the litter is about 75% the size of a normal litter.

I'd guess most Munchkin breeders do this. If they do a mixed breeding (standard-nonstandard), then half their litter is non-standard, and it's probably hard to find homes for those kittens. So instead, they do standard-standard. They get two benefits. They can now breed two show cats together to preserve other desirable traits in 2/3 of their showable litter. The other 1/3 they still need to find pet homes for, but less pet homes than they would have needed otherwise.

My bet is that a lot of them don't even realize that's the reason for the small litters. They probably just attribute it to the size of the cats.

(BTW, anyone who's curious about cat genetics, messybeast.com is really good. They cover pretty much everything.)
post #12 of 19
Oh well - over here there are more than a few Munchkin breeders - those that DO standard to standard almost always end up either deformed or dead kittens. Non Standards usually go for pet homes anyway.
post #13 of 19
Could be a different gene that got mixed in. Apparently there's only one short-leg gene that's supposed to be used for Munchkins. The article said that other mutations had cropped up though, and some are more fatal or cause long lasting deformities. Maybe there was a pedigree error a long time ago? If you scroll to the bottom of the article, they have a little blurb about a Munchkin-like kitten that has some severe problems.
post #14 of 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by bab-ush-niik View Post
No, that's what it's saying, Standard-Standard IS common. It's not quite the same as Scottish Folds. With folds, breeding two folds produces about 25% kittens with serious defects. These kittens do not survive long and are in pain. Same happens with Manx, 25% of kittens from a tailless-tailless breeding will have serious defects.

The short leg gene is a little different. The double short leg gene is SO lethal that the 25% that would have been deformed aren't even ever born. They die when the embryos are still very small. So the mother's body just reabsorbs them. The result is no fatalities/deformities in the born litter, but the litter is about 75% the size of a normal litter.

I'd guess most Munchkin breeders do this. If they do a mixed breeding (standard-nonstandard), then half their litter is non-standard, and it's probably hard to find homes for those kittens. So instead, they do standard-standard. They get two benefits. They can now breed two show cats together to preserve other desirable traits in 2/3 of their showable litter. The other 1/3 they still need to find pet homes for, but less pet homes than they would have needed otherwise.

My bet is that a lot of them don't even realize that's the reason for the small litters. They probably just attribute it to the size of the cats.

(BTW, anyone who's curious about cat genetics, messybeast.com is really good. They cover pretty much everything.)
The homozygous Manx cats will also die as embryos, making the Manx gene semi-lethal.

When it comes to Scottish Folds, heterozygous folds may also develop serious problems with the cartilage development in various joints of the body.
post #15 of 19
Ok I totally don't get the breeder's talk... but here in Singapore many streetcats have tail-deformations. Either Short and stubbly or kinky or swirled like a piggy tail... Even my two gals don't have purrfect tails - Singa's is a bit short with a tiny kink at the very end. Soleil's has an almost unnoticable kink in the middle of the tail....


I was told that it's to do with inbreeding...

Of course there are myths e.g. that the tail is cut off and cooked in a soup.

Or that the superstition says that it is bad luck if a cat jumps over your head and therefore the tails is cut off so the cats cant jump anymore.. weird but I've really heard it...!!

@Abbymummy - since you are also from down here... what is your explanation?
post #16 of 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by Abymummy View Post
Just like you cant breed Scottish Folds to Scottish Folds (both parents folded) and Standard Munchkins to each other....
ok questin as you know, Most of the cats i saw in indo did not have tails,
what type are they?
post #17 of 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by x-ta-Z View Post
Of course there are myths e.g. that the tail is cut off and cooked in a soup.

@Abbymummy - since you are also from down here... what is your explanation?

lol i asked the same, did ont see your post,
I made that joke when i first got to indoensia(i did not know that was a real myth)

both the wife cats have very short tail, one has a strange tail for sure, and they really seemed to just stare at my cats tails
post #18 of 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by x-ta-Z View Post
@Abymummy - since you are also from down here... what is your explanation?
Quote:
Originally Posted by theimp98 View Post
lol i asked the same, did not see your post,
I made that joke when i first got to indoensia(i did not know that was a real myth)

both the wife cats have very short tail, one has a strange tail for sure, and they really seemed to just stare at my cats tails
In all honesty there is NO explanation for kinked or stubby (bob) tails even though genetics do play a huge part of it (ie. if you breed two kinked tails together, you'll definitely get a kinked tail litter). If you look at the story of the Siamese cat, the original Siamese cat owned by the Thai Royal family had kinked tails - in fact it was preferred since the princesses would keep their rings on the tails of the cat and it would not fall off due to the kink.

It is probably more obvious and predominant in this region simply because our cats are naturally short coated.

Kinks occur naturally. My foundation Abys come from a long line of straight tails and yet, Bulan's sibling has a kinked tail. The most famous MC breeder here too has one litter that suddenly has the only one kinked tail kitten.

I have asked many breeders/judges the same question and the answer is simply:

It happens!
post #19 of 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by theimp98 View Post
ok questin as you know, Most of the cats i saw in indo did not have tails,
what type are they?
If it's wide spread with no tail in a cat population it's probably a dominant genetic trait (as in the Manx, it could even be "the" Manx gene).
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