TheCatSite.com › Forums › General Forums › IMO: In My Opinion › No-kill shelters may be harmful to animals
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

No-kill shelters may be harmful to animals - Page 2

post #31 of 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by angelkitty View Post
The article is bologna!!! BULL BULL BULL..

Why do people think you must kill an animal because there not wanted.. The right person always comes along and gives them homes eventually.. You don't kill an animal because he's not wanted..

I read this post the other day about a lady who is can't take her 8 year old Rottweiler dog with her when she moves, and she needs to find him a home.. These idiots were telling her to put him asleep. WHY?? It's not his fault his parents are morons and can't move somewhere he can have a home..

It just errrks me to no end!!
Between 5 and 10 MILLION cats and dogs are put to sleep every year.
Do you honestly think they could all be adopted? Of course not.
So, then you think they should be kept in cages for years like puppy mill dogs?
Death IS preferable to life in a freaking cage.

Posts like this drive me nuts.
post #32 of 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by ckblv View Post
Between 5 and 10 MILLION cats and dogs are put to sleep every year.
Do you honestly think they could all be adopted? Of course not.
So, then you think they should be kept in cages for years like puppy mill dogs?
Death IS preferable to life in a freaking cage.

Posts like this drive me nuts.
That's not exactly true. We haven't been killing between 5 to 10 Million animals in quite some time. It's actually closer to between 4.5-5 Million animals and with more emphasis on spaying/neutering earlier and with shelters/rescues/TNR groups forming more community efforts, I would expect to see that number drop. No one is suggesting animals in cages forever. That wasn't the purpose of No Kill. The organizations that believe in Never Kill but do not have foster homes really need to rethink their practices.

Katie
post #33 of 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by Breal76 View Post
A shelter/Resuce can only go no kill if they become limited admissions.

I have never heard of a shelter that is no kill, that has an open door policy. EVER. ( This only applies to highly populated areas )

So would you rather people dump their animals in the streets than take them to a shelter that does euthanize? What are the alternatives? What does a shelter do when they are averaging 100 animals in intake a day? But they are only adopting out 10 animals or perhaps 20 on a good day. Do the math, it's not hard. And if you can figure out a way, where a shelter can keep it's door open with numbers like that and remain no kill, let me know. I would love to pass the info on.
There are a couple open admission shelters that have gone No Kill..obviously the one most people know about is Tompkins SPCA that Nathan Winograd was the director of for a few years. Recently Charlottesville-Abermerle SPCA went No Kill (I believe they are open admission)..but you are correct in that the MAJORITY of No Kills are either Limited admission shelters or are rescue organizations.

No Kill isn't only built around the notion of adoptions...no kill means having pre-adoptive spay/neuter, TNR, a safety net program (to try to help people to keep their pets) etc. etc.

Katie
post #34 of 44
I personally think that the one thing lacking with shelter is some form of trade, which the lack of helps point the animals towards death.

Even with petfinder, say I'm looking for an Australian Shephard mix and I find one that has the qualities I'm looking for, but its in AL. I hate to say it, but I'm not exactly going to hop into my car and drive to AL from MI to pick up a dog. I'll just wait until one (or another irrisitable dog/cat) appears at a shelter that is closer.

Another good example is the local shelters by us either has German Shepard, Rottweilers, or Pit bull mixes or cats. My mom, who would love a pet, doesn't want a cat and does not like German Shepards, Rotts or Pit bulls. If shelters traded regionally, then perhaps she could find herself a new pet more easily.

I think if the shelters become more organized and "trade" pets with other shelters, they could effectively become "no kill".

Also shelters do need to advertise that they are looking for fosters. At least in this area, the main shelters do not. If I had known that I could do so, I would have started fostering before I got Luna.
post #35 of 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by lunasmom View Post
I personally think that the one thing lacking with shelter is some form of trade, which the lack of helps point the animals towards death.

Even with petfinder, say I'm looking for an Australian Shephard mix and I find one that has the qualities I'm looking for, but its in AL. I hate to say it, but I'm not exactly going to hop into my car and drive to AL from MI to pick up a dog. I'll just wait until one (or another irrisitable dog/cat) appears at a shelter that is closer.

Another good example is the local shelters by us either has German Shepard, Rottweilers, or Pit bull mixes or cats. My mom, who would love a pet, doesn't want a cat and does not like German Shepards, Rotts or Pit bulls. If shelters traded regionally, then perhaps she could find herself a new pet more easily.

I think if the shelters become more organized and "trade" pets with other shelters, they could effectively become "no kill".

Also shelters do need to advertise that they are looking for fosters. At least in this area, the main shelters do not. If I had known that I could do so, I would have started fostering before I got Luna.
Hi Luna,

Certainly it would help if shelters and rescue groups worked together to save more animals. I know in New York City, they have kiosks where you can type in the type/breed of animal you are looking for and it will tell you whether the animal is at any of the local shelters.

As another member once told me, he didn't see us making much of a dent in the overpopulation until we could establish a database that all shelters could share which would provide information on available animals so that if I'm in No. VA and I see a dog in So. VA that fits what someone looking for, arrangements could be made to get the animal to No. VA to adopt.

I'm a little leery of making it a "national" database because there are different protocols in different states AND by making it national, you have less control over what shots the animal has received as well as holding times. The LAST thing you want to do is inadvertantly bring a disease like Parvo into your shelter or adopt out an animal with a fatal disease.

Katie

BTW....MANY, MANY shelters do not post on Petfinder and many shelters do not list all their animals..so it's always a good thing to stop by your local shelters to see exactly what they have.
post #36 of 44
Nowadays I see it is from PETA, and dismiss it as being factual or beneficial to pets and/or societies pet owners. They are very extreme and honestly the more I learn about them, the more they scare me.
post #37 of 44
Quote:
There are cases in which the money motivated shelter directors were replaced by people who actually care about animals. Kill "shelters" with poor conditions have been transformed into comfortable homes for animals who won't be killed simply because they exist.
Quote:
but when healthy, lovable animals are killed because they don't have a home I call it extermination, not euthanasia.
You know, not everyone who works at a high kill shelter hates animals.

I wouldn't call the kennel manager I had come to know and love an exterminator either. I could always see the look on her face, during a terrible a day. I can't tell you how many times she told me "I can't do this anymore." I won't even begin to tell you how many animals lives she has saved and brought into her own home, because she couldn't let them go. She even went into wildlife rescue just so she could save more lives. Because finding a wild animal a home is a lot easier than a domesticated pet. (setting them free)

The problem with the shelter I worked at was a combined effort. Lack of resources, less than 15 miles away there was a closed door/low kill 20 million dollar shelter. They have tapped most of the rescources in the area. They say they don't turn anyone away but they do. And they had no problem referring people to our shelter. Because as long as they don't have to kill the animals, why should they care? However I have always found hypocrisy in this. How can you claim to be no kill or low kill but have no problem telling people "Sorry can't take your pet, but take it to ______ they will take it. They are an open door shelter."

The shelter I worked at advertised foster care. At any given time they had over a 100 animals in foster care. They worked with rescue groups as far north as seattle. ( about a 3 hour drive ) On any given month 100-300 animals are being shipped out to other places.

Every animal that is adopted out through the shelter is spayed or neutered.

They have a program running that if you live in a specific area code. ( 3 to be exact. ) Only these areas because it's a pilot program where the county saw 7000 cats come in from the previous year. So they made a program where you could get your cat fixed for 10 dollars.

While I am sure there are people in this business who don't care about animals that work at high kill shelters. It is not the lot.

I worked with some of the most amazing people I have ever met in my entire life. I saw what true dedication of what it means to be passionate about animal welfare/rescue from these people.

Do you know what the saddest thing is? It's the people you would tell who were giving up their pets, I would tell them "We are full and euthanizing for space. " and yet THEY WOULD STILL SIGN THAT SURRENDER AGREEMENT.

Tisk Tisk.
post #38 of 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by TNR1 View Post
Hi Luna,

Certainly it would help if shelters and rescue groups worked together to save more animals. I know in New York City, they have kiosks where you can type in the type/breed of animal you are looking for and it will tell you whether the animal is at any of the local shelters.

As another member once told me, he didn't see us making much of a dent in the overpopulation until we could establish a database that all shelters could share which would provide information on available animals so that if I'm in No. VA and I see a dog in So. VA that fits what someone looking for, arrangements could be made to get the animal to No. VA to adopt.

I'm a little leery of making it a "national" database because there are different protocols in different states AND by making it national, you have less control over what shots the animal has received as well as holding times. The LAST thing you want to do is inadvertantly bring a disease like Parvo into your shelter or adopt out an animal with a fatal disease.

Katie

BTW....MANY, MANY shelters do not post on Petfinder and many shelters do not list all their animals..so it's always a good thing to stop by your local shelters to see exactly what they have.
What about a state-wide database then? Then you only have to worry about the state laws.

I guess this is where I'm trying to apply big business to the non profit though. I.e. if you go to a car dealership and they don't have the color of the car you want, they can look in the virtual database for local dealerships that do have the color and have it transported there. Granted with a car you don't have to worry about diseases, however I think IF the U.S Human Society could step in and create a basic regulation with inspections instead of what seems to be just collecting people's money for their own cause, I think that pet adoptions could be a little more functional (for lack of a better term.).

So then the USHS (or even state HS) comes up with a list of basic requirements for the local chapter to be a Humane Society equivilent. If there is an animal coming in from another center, place them in a quarantined area, then once they have been "cleared" as being non-fatal, then allow them into the adoption center. Regular inspections should be done to ensure that the regulations are still being made. Then each HS shelter is allowed onto a state-based HS database. If a mother and child comes in looking for a yellow lab puppy, and a S. MI shelter doesn't have one, then refer to the database and oh I see one in X shelter. Let me contact them and find out if I can arrange the puppy to come down here for you to play with. It may take a couple of days but if you come XX day then you can see the puppy.

I realise you run the risk of the searching party loses interest in the dog or cat, but I just see the possibilities out there that shelters just aren't taking advantage of.
post #39 of 44
Most rescue's won't allow transports because they require a Home Visit before allowing you to adopt one of their animal's.

But there are many, many people out there, on Petfinder that will pull animals for you out of shelters. There is a transport network out there.
There are even transporting services available that you pay for to get an animal from here to there.

I found 2 out of 3 of my dogs on Petfinder. My latest one, Jesse, my brother and I drove to the Ivins Animal Shelter in Ivins, Utah to get him.
post #40 of 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by lunasmom View Post
What about a state-wide database then? Then you only have to worry about the state laws.

I guess this is where I'm trying to apply big business to the non profit though. I.e. if you go to a car dealership and they don't have the color of the car you want, they can look in the virtual database for local dealerships that do have the color and have it transported there. Granted with a car you don't have to worry about diseases, however I think IF the U.S Human Society could step in and create a basic regulation with inspections instead of what seems to be just collecting people's money for their own cause, I think that pet adoptions could be a little more functional (for lack of a better term.).

So then the USHS (or even state HS) comes up with a list of basic requirements for the local chapter to be a Humane Society equivilent. If there is an animal coming in from another center, place them in a quarantined area, then once they have been "cleared" as being non-fatal, then allow them into the adoption center. Regular inspections should be done to ensure that the regulations are still being made. Then each HS shelter is allowed onto a state-based HS database. If a mother and child comes in looking for a yellow lab puppy, and a S. MI shelter doesn't have one, then refer to the database and oh I see one in X shelter. Let me contact them and find out if I can arrange the puppy to come down here for you to play with. It may take a couple of days but if you come XX day then you can see the puppy.

I realise you run the risk of the searching party loses interest in the dog or cat, but I just see the possibilities out there that shelters just aren't taking advantage of.
Not every shelter or rescue has the same policies or procedures and wouldn't necessarily trust another shelter or rescue doing the interviewing/adoption. You have to remember that most shelters aren't under HSUS...they are county owned and operated...so putting an organization like the HSUS in charge wouldn't necessarily work.

I think having an internal network of information that shelters can share amongst each other makes most sense for now.

Katie
post #41 of 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by TNR1 View Post
Not every shelter or rescue has the same policies or procedures and wouldn't necessarily trust another shelter or rescue doing the interviewing/adoption. You have to remember that most shelters aren't under HSUS...they are county owned and operated...so putting an organization like the HSUS in charge wouldn't necessarily work.

I think having an internal network of information that shelters can share amongst each other makes most sense for now.

Katie
I KNOW that HSUS doesn't own many humane societies. I implied that in an earlier post. I also know that not all shelters operate the same way. If
a higher organization came in and said "if you want to be HS affiliated, then here are the minimum requirements procedures and here are the policies." blah blah blah. Think of it like a health inspector.

I am merely offering an alternative point of view to help with over-population (but not solve)...its just an opinion.
post #42 of 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by ConsumerKitty View Post

Slightly off topic, but when healthy, lovable animals are killed because they don't have a home I call it extermination, not euthanasia.
Sorry, I am not an "exterminator". The words "no-kill" have probably been two of the most devisive ones mentioned in the past decade in animal welfare. What they have done is created the impression that every person who works in an "open admission - animals are euthanized" facility are detestable animal killers. That is truly not the case. Even the word "no-kill" is misleading. Does that mean no euthanasia at all? What about terminally ill animals that are suffering? What about strays hit by a car? What about rabid animals? What about the dog that killed a child? Not every animal that is euthanized in a shelter is a "lovable animal". If you make exceptions for the cases listed above then the words "no kill" don't really apply.

So lets only apply it to healthy, friendly, adoptable animals. Thats great but it misleads the public who think "no kill" = "no euthanasia". I've seen many examples where well meaning humane agencies used this "We don't kill anything" marketing (yep, its marketing when you use this to raise funds) plan and bashed the other local shelters. That reduced people coming through the doors and lowered adoptions. End result, more animals died needlessly because someone thought being "right" was more important that cooperating to find animals homes.

The vet in the county may have been flippant but his feelings were probably on point. At least a vet was willing to do it and insure that the animals weren't shot, gassed, or left to die on the side of the road. As a Certified Euthanasia Technician for many years, let me tell you that I still cry, I still have a hard time facing it and it NEVER NEVER gets easier. Please don't add the cheap shots about being an "exterminator" to the things I have to go to bed and think about each night.

So how do you fix this problem? First you have to fix people's views of this whole issue. You have to work together and acknowledge that each agency (limited admission, open admission, limited euthanasia, low euthanasia, or open euthanasia) has a place in ending NEEDLESS euthanasia. There is not an agency in the world with enough money, resources, time and staff to solve this problem alone - we ALL have to work together. If you get a chance, read the Asilomar Accords. One of the key notes in the list of things agencies agree to is not to speak ill of each other in public related to euthanasia. We need to keep people coming through the front doors of our shelters, ALL OF THEM, if we are going to make a difference.

Nice soapbox moment. So put your programs where your mouth is. OK. In my county, my shelter www.mcohio.org/animalshelter , has not had to euthanize a SINGLE ADOPTABLE DOG since 7/06. How? We work with everyone! (I'm still working the cat angle). The second sunday of every month we have "Mingle with our Mutts" where we invite over 20 rescue groups to come to our facility and offer their pets to forever homes. We get 200 people through the door from 12-2 on that sunday! The best way for an animal to leave the shelter is through the front door with a new family.

We work collaboratively with the other humane societies and we help each other. Both are limited admission, low euthanasia facilities. As a government shop, my agency carries the overflow. I have a group of staff whose compassion and caring I would put up against any other organization bar none. Not one of them joined this business because the advertisement noted "euthanizing animals" as one of the "perks". They aren't exterminators either.

Animal shelters have a hard job. There are quite a few that scare me! Not every person who works in this field is truly committed or compassionate but I'd guess that roughly 98% of us are. We certainly don't do this job for the high pay and accolades heaped on us by some of the public.

Want to make a difference? Show up at your local open admission facility and ask how you can help them. Saving lives starts with one animal. Volunteer, do adoption outreach, include a little note to all your friends with your christmas cards encouraging them to do the same. Its about changing minds. When the minds change, so will the practices.
post #43 of 44
I have to agree with Mark. In my city, we have several small foster network rescues, the city animal control / shelter and a well known 'no kill' shelter where I volunteer.

They work together, the no kill shelter (who I know have had to have animals PTS in the past, although not for issues of 'making space' is limited in what animals they will take, especially if they are busy. They have a mandate to take in strays before surrenders etc. Therefore, it could be seen that animals are being thrown out because the shelter won't take them because they are full, but instead they work with other shelters to find somewhere that will take them.

If they don't have a certain animal that a potential adopter comes in looking for, they recommend trying the other shelters, and keep their leaflets and cards with their number and address etc in the lobby. When another shelter is full, they call there to see if there is space.

A few weeks ago, someone called in about a puppy that they didn't have the space for, the shelter called another shelter who had the space but not the finances to deal with an abused dog. So they offered to send it with food and have all the vet bills sent to the first shelter.

The euthanisia rate is lower because all of the shelters work together, despite the main city shelter having an open door policy, but as Mark said, even in the 'no kill' shelters, the no kill only applies to 'adoptable pets'.

I am well aware of a no kill shelter back home that actually euthanises more animals than the open door kill facility, because if they are not adopted in a few weeks they deem them unadoptable. The policies of what makes an animal unadoptable vary from shelter to shelter and is very different all over the world. In some you will find cats who have been there a year (as is the case in my local shelter and she is finally coming around to people now) in others they are there for a short time before magically cage space appears.

My only concern, particularly with areas where the shelters do not work together is that people are more likely to donate (money or goods) to the no kill shelters. Many of the people I see coming into the local no kill shelter are not even aware that Animal Control has their own shelter, they just assume they pick up lost / stray animals and if not claimed in a week or so, have them PTS. However, the onus is on the kill shelters and local Animal Controls to advertise the fact that they are shelters and to solicit donations and volunteers.
post #44 of 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlleyGirl View Post
The rescue I volunteer with does not let ANY cat go that isn't spayed/neutered first. The local low cost clinic will do them at 10-12 weeks, so that is when they are done, then adopted out. Our adult cats that have been with us a long time get rotated to foster homes so that they don't spend too much time in a cage.

Having said that, we do have to turn down a lot of animals. We pull strictly from the kill shelters and have to turn down a lot of people trying to get rid of cats and kittens. I'm sure most of these end up on the street or in a kill shelter where we may or may not be able to help them. Space is very limited for us.

You can't help them all and I know a lot are being pts for space, but we do what we can.
The rescue I volunteer with is exactly the same way. Which is why I don't like calling ourselves..no kill. To me, we are limited admission...we pull who we want from the shelters. Of course I do believe that we are making people aware that things aren't as great as they would like because every one of our cats, kittens would have been euthanized had we not pulled them.

Katie
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: IMO: In My Opinion
TheCatSite.com › Forums › General Forums › IMO: In My Opinion › No-kill shelters may be harmful to animals