17th child born, to Arkansas family

Originally Posted by Cairo

It all seems a little cultish to me.

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Thank you

I just said the same thing in the IMO thread and its just nice to know I'm not the only one who feels this way

I dont think they are selfish one bit. I think they love their kids and they provide for them and that is all that matters. If they were being neglected, then there would be a problem, but they aren't.

Originally Posted by Trouts mom

Ummm, to me its incredibly odd. I have no understanding as to why someone would want to spend their whole life birthing children.

On another note, they are ALL homeschooled? I fear that these kids will live very sheltered lives. IMO.

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Yes they are all home schooled

Originally Posted by Liza24

i have been watching this family since they were at number 12, and i really seem to think they keep adding for selfish reasons. one is for cheap labor. Sure, food and clothes are not cheap, but the chores they do take the place of having to hire out, so that pays for the food and clothes.

And they dont need govt help, they have the royalities from the tv show and publicity.

now wonder they can afford to pop out more, they are rolling in dough!

I just wonder how they are able to give each child one on one attention, seems some will get left out

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I agree with you, and that is my opinion, which I am entitled to. I have also watched their documentarys and stuff, I think they are probably being paid a lot of money.

This is also my opinion, I think the mother does nothing in that family except take care of the new baby, when she gets pregnant again, that baby is then passed to a buddy. All of the children take care of their buddies.

I feel sorry for the children in that family, I don't think any of those children have ever been able to be children. They are always taking care of their new buddy.

And I don't think with all those kids you can give the attention that they need and deserve to have as children.

Originally Posted by GingersMom

There was a thread in IMO about this family.

I think they are incredibly selfish and stupid - but hey, that's just my opinion.

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I think so too Betsy, they might not be so stupid, but I do think that they are very selfish.

I haven't seen the show or the website-I would probably be too horrified...that is just waaaay too many kids, especially considering the state of the planet & an explosive population growth. Other than that, I just can't understand why. What purpose does it serve having so many children?

you got it!

those kids dont get time to be "kids" they have to be " mommy's helper" and that means basically she cant take care of everyone, so its pawned off on the avail kid. the buddy system they have is BS.

and i agree it seems cultish.

and yes, god believe in procreation, but not sex for fun, so there claim about religious reasons for no Birth Control is BS. they have sex anytime, and HOPE to get preg. the bible says to to have sex for the reason of precreation only.

*steps off soapbox*,lol

Originally Posted by LSULOVER

I agree with you, and that is my opinion, which I am entitled to. I have also watched their documentarys and stuff, I think they are probably being paid a lot of money.

This is also my opinion, I think the mother does nothing in that family except take care of the new baby, when she gets pregnant again, that baby is then passed to a buddy. All of the children take care of their buddies.

I feel sorry for the children in that family, I don't think any of those children have ever been able to be children. They are always taking care of their new buddy.

And I don't think with all those kids you can give the attention that they need and deserve to have as children.

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... I don't think its my place, or anyone elses to judge really.

We all have our opinions & that's fine. This is a discussion board afterall.

I have watched this family on TV & as a mother of Quadruplets that will be 4 years old in 3 months, this family made ME feel normal, because MY house is less busy than theirs. LOL!

However I've joked with my friends that, that womans uterus hasn't exploded by now, or just plain fallen out!

I believe what happened is that Mrs. Duggar was on the birth control pill and had complications concieving afterwards, and because of this she and her husbands decided not to use birth control. There's more to it than just that, there's religious reasons as well...

There are 17 children and they all have names that begin with the letter J. All the children are homeschooled by their mother, and every child can play the piano and violin. Their lessons are actually very interesting. She'll teach them about space let's say one day, and she'll do an overview, and the older children will talk about what they've learned, and then each child will do some reading/ break into age groups and do some more focused studying. Each child has a "buddy"- meaning the older children are paired up with a younger sibling that helps them with their lessons, getting ready in the morning, etc. Because of this, the mother does give one on one attention to each child everyday, and the younger children get more individualized attention from an older sibling.

They have a very very organized life. They have matching outfits for the day, all the girls wear skirts, and the girls have white socks and the boys have black socks. Each child has their own chores to do, but it's not that bad because there are so many of them. There is a bulliten board that has what each child hopes to accomplish that day (in terms of goals).

On one day of the week, the mother and the girls do the cooking for the majority of the week and freeze it. They eat a very good balanced diet.


At night they read bible verses as a family.



Problems?

- socialization: on the bright side, there is 17 of them so it's not like it's an only child being homeschooled, but I personally feel that they should play sports or something so they can get to know other children their own age. I know they have church services in their home, and maybe 5 other families come and hang around for the rest of the day.....but I think that's it.

- schedule: strict schedules are great and wonderful and work if the variables are right, but if you have children that are going off to college- even very strict colleges- I think they will have a hard time adjusting.

-mother's health: I worry about Michelle (Mrs. Duggar) the most. Usually you have to watch for uterine prolapse after the 5th child....and she's had 17, and only the last set of twins I believe were born via C-Section. That's a lot for any muscle in your body to go through, and I'm just nervous that her uterus will get tired....especially since she's now 40.

I can't believe this opinion is about to fall out of my mouth as I'm a confirmed bachelorette, have no kids and never will [I figure I help balance the population out that way ] There are several Mennonite communities in this area and large families are quite common. Not the rule but not unusual at all. I have to admit they seem to be doing something right when it comes to large families. I rarely see a family where the children are not truly happy and all go on to become productive, well balanced people. It's not just a face they put on because I work for many of these families and I see the good and bad of them. I've yet to see one need government assistance. One mother told me that she didn't have a large family just to see how many they could have. Each child was revered as a gift from God. Would I do it? Oh heck no! I figure one set of my genes in the world is enough. But I'm not sure I am willing to rubber stamp all situations as bad simply because of the positive I have seen.

So far as I'm concerned they exploit their kids and family in order to make money to support the family.

Those kids have no life. It's not up to older kids to raise their younger sibblings while the parents keep pumping out more and more.

If you read that article, they indicate that they want even more kids.

I am not suprised at all.

I think they're selfish also.
I watched a documentary on them awhile back and what suprised me was the father had all the boys helping build the new house.
So how were they getting school work done after being outside building a house all day?
I think that's something called child labor if I'm not mistaken?

I could go on and on but I wont!

Originally Posted by noludoru

But after you've had 5 kids I think you have inflicted your genes upon the world enough and certainly ought to have mandatory birth control.

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MANDATORY BIRTH CONTROL? Are you kidding?

You want your government to be able to call you up and say, "Okay, Mrs. Smith, our records show you had your fifth child last month. Please report for sterilization at 9:00 next Tuesday."

That is not America, that is not democracy, that is not freedom of choice, that is not human rights -- that is not even human decency. That's CHINA, for heaven's sake!

And it's also not necessary. If we didn't let the most puritannical 10% of our population dictate our principles in this area, we would long ago have instituted realistic sex education and birth control training, in several stages designed to be appropriate for elementary school right on up through college (yes, college, to reach those whose parents have kept them in the dark). That would eliminate a great many unwanted pregnancies, and a lot of STDs as well.

Then, by providing girls with a safe place to go for responsible help that does not require parental involvement, we would eliminate a great many more "children having children."

Yes, I understand the alarm of parents at the idea of their daughters making unilateral decisions of such life-changing import -- but many of these girls live in horrible family situations where they are literally afraid for their lives if anyone finds out they're pregnant! That's why we end up with newborn babies stuffed in dumpsters instead of taken to safe places or given up for adoption. Once a girl is pregnant, she's facing decisions she'll have to live with for the rest of her life -- and we must allow her easy access to the unbiased information and counseling that will allow her to make the right decisions for her... not the decisions her parents may want to impose upon her.

Overpopulation in the third world is largely the result of ignorance, religious dogma, and lack of access to birth control -- we all know that. But what many of us fail to recognize is that (to a somewhat lesser degree) we have imposed EXACTLY the same ignorance, dogma, and lack of access on our OWN young people!

One time I was talking to a coworker who had a teenage daughter, and she told me she had pulled her daughter out of school on the days when sex education classes were held. I asked her why, and she said she didn't want her daughter to "get ideas." Like the ideas don't appear on their own when the hormones kick in! Sex education classes (if they're done right) will help kids cope with those "ideas" in safe and rational ways! But this woman wanted her 14-year-old daughter to remain ignorant.

Another woman I spoke to once said that when she found condoms in her son's dresser, she threw them out and told her son that if she ever caught him with them again, she would kick him out of the house. I said, "But if he's going to be sexually active, don't you want him to use protection?" She said she couldn't stop him from having sex, but she could make sure that if he did, he would "pay the price."

I was flabbergasted. I said, "You mean you'd rather your son get a girl pregnant than use protection?" She said, "He'd sure learn about the consequences, wouldn't he?"

And then I said, "What if he catches AIDS because you took away his condoms? Surely you don't want your son to die for having premarital sex!" And I swear to god, this woman said, "That's his decision. If he can't keep it in his pants until he's married, he pays the price."

This is the kind of self-righteous idiocy that has kept us from handling the issue of underage sex rationally and responsibly in this country.

Nolodoru -- sorry for the huge rant above, it isn't intended as a personal attack... but I can imagine how it might feel that way.

They had them on DHC a couple of years ago and OMG they are so Organized its unbelievable, and she looks pretty darn good for having that many..Wow when to stop huh lol

I can't read the reponses as all the judgemental responses will make me annoyed, I just wanted to add I am suprised this isn't in IMO yet!

If it wasn't for the private and commerical donations they receive, in addition to the money they get from selling their big family story, they wouldn't be able to support that number of children.

They are using their kids as a way to support their family and to have even more kids, and I find that disgusting.

Originally Posted by Dixie_Darlin

I watched a documentary on them awhile back and what suprised me was the father had all the boys helping build the new house.
So how were they getting school work done after being outside building a house all day?
I think that's something called child labor if I'm not mistaken?

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First, you don't know, based on 30 seconds of video, that they were "building a house all day." The younger ones may have helped out for an hour or two and gone back to their studies, or they may have doubled up on another day to make up time -- part of the beauty of home-schooling.

Child labor, in and of itself, is not illegal, just highly restricted so as to avoid sweatshop-type exploitation, and a bit less restricted if that labor is in the context of a family business. And in this context, the children are actually learning valuable skills -- construction requires a working knowledge of mathematics, geometry, physics, which are all components of sound engineering.

I will say I was a bit concerned to see some of the younger boys operating power tools, but again, I can't pass judgement based on a ten-second video clip. For all I know, dad could have spent two days teaching them how to use them safely, and had an older boy standing by to help when necessary -- everyone knows "danger" makes for good TV, and it could have even been a shot setup by the producer of the documentary.

As far as thinking it's selfish, put the shoe on the other foot. The Duggars may think it's selfish of you to choose NOT to procreate, but they will never say so. Their religious beliefs tell them not to criticize (judge not lest ye be judged). It is their RIGHT to have as many or as few children as they choose, and as long as they're not reliant on taxpayers' money they should be allowed to continue as they see fit.

And as far as individual attention to each child? I am a single mother. I MUST work to provide for my daughter. Thus I cannot provide individual attention to my daughter 24/7, and unfortunately must rely on a daycare provider, whom I truly appreciate, to do so in my absence. NONE of these children has ever been in daycare. Their father works to provide financially for them, and their mother works in the home to see that they are provided for emotionally, and that they are educated. In mother's place is a sibling, a blood relative who loves them as much as their mother does, and who enjoys spending time with them. Would you rather the older siblings "had a chance to be kids," by vegetating in front of a video game, or surfing the internet IM'ing friends all day with lousy grammer and syntax, or going out and getting into trouble?

A pp said it best when she commented on the Mennonite families that she's seen in action. These children are well-adjusted, happy and intelligent. Naive in the ways of the world? perhaps, but they have a solid foundation of family that may just make them the envy of their peers, many of whom are crying out for help in the absence of adequate parenting.

Originally Posted by Natalie_ca

Those kids have no life. It's not up to older kids to raise their younger sibblings while the parents keep pumping out more and more.

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How do you know they dont have a life? Are you with that family 24/7? You're basing it off what you have seen and read. Maybe the kids also dont really care. They like to be around their family. When I was younger, I really didnt have a life either. In high school, I went to school, and came home. I never did anything on weekends or weeknights and I really didnt care.

As for the older kids "raising" the younger kids, they are learning responsibility. They are learning to cook dinner, do laundry, and clean house when some people a lot older than them dont even know how to do that much.

As long as they love their children and give them all they need in the world, both physically and mentally, without being on assistance, then that is all that matters.