F1 Bengal Girl

Originally Posted by HopeHacker

Simba has that roar, but it's only when he gets bored and wants attention. He can let off with some of the loudest most annoying sounds in the world, when he's trying to get attention or when he's trying to keep me from sleeping. Angel can also be pretty loud when she's talking to me.

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heck, stoli and luxor can make the most loud, annoying sounds when they are bored, but NOTHING as annoying (but cute) as that!

I want to say that I really hope you stick around on this forum and keep us all updated on your kitten.
I'll be getting at least one F2 girl in the next year and I'm extremely interested in every detail of how things go with your little F1. Looks like you're having a blast with her already!

She's adorable and I think her meow is incredible. One has to have a taste for these things.....

Our very good friend in Missouri has recently purchased a F1 girl and she will be bred to 2 of our stud cats that are now residing with her. So....we'll be getting some F2's here in the near future.

To date, we've only had F4 and higher, so this is all new territory for me, and I consider myself a seasoned bengal breeder. It's very exciting and I'm like a sponge wanting to soak up everything I can about these foundations......so I'm looking foward to all of your posts about your new girl.

Your little girl is incredible!!

I must say though, I sure am glad Coco is quiet! She lets one rip every once in a while but for the most part she is satisfied with little moans and grunts.

i'm really excited to have an F1 here at the breeder's corner, and it's even nicer that it sounds like Rare1 has a head on their shoulders AND loves and adores this kitty. Which is always special

Nial so how does this work for you as far as keeping more Bengals. Don't you need a F4 or F5 on both sides to show them?

Is there a site, where one can see the changes and progression from F1 to SBT Bengal. What are the major differences? Size, temperament? Is it normal practice for the average pet family to have an F1 Bengal, or is there reasons for a person to be very educated regarding the differences of being owned by an F1 vs moving forward and owning an F4 or F5?
I am thinking of my own loudest queen in heat, and then thinking of a Bengal in heat.

Rajah's got this type of "roar" too - can be very annoying at 2 a.m.! Fortunately, Lily doesn't have it in her - she's got a much higher squeakier voice and doesn't talk nearly as much. Rajah litterally yells when he wants attention, or food, or whatever. It's been a little difficult to get used to, even though I've had a couple very vocal cats in the past. Nothing like this though.

Very cute baby. Keep us posted!

She is cute. It's hard to believe that such a loud noise can come from such a small kitten. She and a very vocal Siamese would be quite a combination. Not very harmonious but certainly would make for a lot of noise.

Originally Posted by FamilytimeRags

Is there a site, where one can see the changes and progression from F1 to SBT Bengal. What are the major differences? Size, temperament? Is it normal practice for the average pet family to have an F1 Bengal, or is there reasons for a person to be very educated regarding the differences of being owned by an F1 vs moving forward and owning an F4 or F5?
I am thinking of my own loudest queen in heat, and then thinking of a Bengal in heat.

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While I am NO EXPERT ...

F1 is 50% wild blood ... ie one parent was a ALC ... Often you need a permit as many juristictions call this a "WILD" animal...

F2 is 37-25% and still often considered a wild animal

F4 is around 12 wild blood but IS NO longer wild and is a DOMESTIC cat

Size F1 is likely smaller than F4 or F5 s because the ALC is a SMALL cat smaller than most housecats .... They can be skittish since half of them is a skittish wild cat

NO they are not a TYPICAL housepet and should be with someone who has a good understanding of small wild cat behavior

F4 or SBT is a TYPICAL HOUSECAT

One of the biggest things to consider about keeping a F1, is your ability to spend quality time with this cat. These guys also tend to bond for life, picking one family member as their "mate", for lack of a better term.

It really is a 10 to 20 year commitment. This isn't a cat that will do well being re-homed. This cat will also have a problem when their owner's go on vacation and she/he is left behind.

There are lots of other things to consider too. The noise volume is one, as we witnessed in the videos.

The ALC likes to do it's business in water, to disguise it's presence in the forest. It's not uncommon for the F1 to pee in it's water bowl, the sink, the tub, etc. They will also pee on piles of laundry, un-made beds, etc.
The new owner has to be vigilant about not providing attractive opportunites for their F1 to mis-behave in this manner.

F1's also need a diet high in protein with lots of meat. Preferably raw. They will not do as well on regular cat food.

I also want to touch on what Sharky mentioned about blood percentage. F1's come with varying percentages of ALC blood. 50% being the lowest amount possible.
This would be if an ALC was mated to a non-bengal cat, say an E. Mau or American Shorthair.

Any ALC mated to a bengal cat will produce a F1 with more than 50% wild blood, because all bengals have a certain percentage of ALC blood, although it is minimal in generations beyond F5.

If an ALC is mated to a F3 female, the resulting F1 offspring will have roughly 62.5% ALC blood.

The basic scale is as Sharky mentioned:
F1 : greater than 50%
F2 : greater than 25%
F3 : greater than 12.5%
F4 : greater than 6.25% (this generation meets the standards and is elligible for showing and is from here on out refered to as a SBT Bengal)

I've traced the lineage of all my cats back at least 10 generations.

I.E. one of my boys, Kahekili has 3 different ALC's in his pedigree, one at the 8th generation and two at the 10th generation. That's a long way back in terms of the number of cats involved in his ancestry and his wild blood content is of course less than 1%.

When your cat is a F6 and higher, the wild blood content is virtually non-existant in terms of precentages.

One question, when you mate two F4 cats together, where they both have atleast 6.25% ALC blood doesn't the ALC blood % effectively freeze then and stay at atleast 6.25%?

I mean once you hit F4 it doesn't it only go down further if you mate to non bengal cats with no ALC blood at all?

The way I've understood it so far is that you take the % in the parents, add up and then divide by two. This is a rough guess of course because you can't know exactly what genes end up in the kittens.

Wouldn't that make most bengal cats have around the 6.25% ALC blood since I don't think I've ever heard of anyone breeding a non-bengal to F4s since the F4s are fertile?

I'll happily be corrected if I'm wrong though

Originally Posted by Siggav

One question, when you mate two F4 cats together, where they both have atleast 6.25% ALC blood doesn't the ALC blood % effectively freeze then and stay at atleast 6.25%?

I mean once you hit F4 it doesn't it only go down further if you mate to non bengal cats with no ALC blood at all?

The way I've understood it so far is that you take the % in the parents, add up and then divide by two. This is a rough guess of course because you can't know exactly what genes end up in the kittens.

Wouldn't that make most bengal cats have around the 6.25% ALC blood since I don't think I've ever heard of anyone breeding a non-bengal to F4s since the F4s are fertile?

I'll happily be corrected if I'm wrong though

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Well yes and no. There were many outcrosses along the way, with breeding of SBT bengals to other breeds to bring in certain genes. Kahekili has at least 6 E. Mau's in his 10 generation pedigree. (I unitentionally left that part out of my last post) So the blood level varies to a great degree, but your theory would be mostly correct if only F4's were bred to each other. It's definitely not an exact science and each SBT bengal will have a different level of ALC blood based on the pedigree.
IMO, if the ALC blood percentage is 6 or less percent, it's negligable. And of course you're right, it's the genes that matter and only DNA testing can establish what kitten has what.

Ok here is the daily update!

Ebi is becoming more comfortable and making less noise. She starting eating more and her stools are fine. Looks like baby was just a little nervous.

To be honest, I am amazed at how much love this little creature has for us already. When I come in for our morning time, she is sooooooo excited. We play and cuddle and she just loves nuzzling under my neck. I am going to have my fiance take a little video so you can see how "wild" this beast is with us

The interesting thing is she had bonded equally to both of us. If we are both in the room at the same time, baby just spends time running back and forth for rubs.

We gave her a chance to explore our place last night, and it was awesome watching her leap around. She is not skittish at all. My favorite thing is to get down on all fours and wait for the Ebi insano face rub! She will swirl around my face purring like a maniac.

After her exploration we decided it was time for her to meet Pepe. We opened the bedroom and let Pepe wander out. They met in the living room and it was a pretty good first meeting. I will break it out into a play by play

1. Pepe walks up to Ebi
2. Ebi postures
3. They get so close there noses touch
4. Ebi grows
5. Pepe hisses (no posturing or puffy tail)
6. Staring contest for a minute or two
7. Pepe gets bored and wanders away
8. Ebi follows Pepe to the window and sneaks up on her
9. Pepe hisses again
10. Ebi stands there and growls

We had to put her back in the bathroom cause of her cold, but over all I thought it was a great first meeting. Pepe was so relaxed and only responded to Ebiâ€[emoji]8482[/emoji]s actions. I think that they are going to be good friends

Well thatâ€[emoji]8482[/emoji]s all I have for now…..we will have meeting two tonight!!!

Also.....she is perfectly litter trained. We have had no accidents yet. We even have towels and t shirts on the floor for her to relax on. To be totally honest she seems more domestic than most other kittens I have met...besides her "roar"

Thanks for all the positive words!!! Seems like this is an excellent community.

Is there ever going to be a time when F1's won't be produced anymore? Will the Bengal breed hit a point where more wild blood isn't needed?

IMO there really should not be a need to be breeding directly to the ALC any more. It just sets things back as far as generations needed to be shown.

Originally Posted by HopeHacker

Simba has that roar, but it's only when he gets bored and wants attention. He can let off with some of the loudest most annoying sounds in the world, when he's trying to get attention or when he's trying to keep me from sleeping. Angel can also be pretty loud when she's talking to me.

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Luna's just as bad and she's a Domestic Shorthair.



Eh, so maybe she doesn't the "roar", but she is VERY vocal.

Wow, she is really gorgeous!

Originally Posted by Telynn

Is there ever going to be a time when F1's won't be produced anymore? Will the Bengal breed hit a point where more wild blood isn't needed?

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I asked this very same question of Nial not too long ago...and he agreed that there's no reason to keep taking ALCs (which are natural to Malaysia) out of the jungle anymore!

Originally Posted by Abymummy

I asked this very same question of Nial not too long ago...and he agreed that there's no reason to keep taking ALCs (which are natural to Malaysia) out of the jungle anymore!

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Right, I think we can do just fine with the number of ALC's we have within the breeding pool right now. There is currently no justifiable reason to keep importing new ALC's into bengal breeding programs.

One could argue that there is no longer any reason to use any ALC in breeding programs for bengals, but keep in mind that this breed, even though it's nearly 40 years old, is still developing. The standard is still changing.

Case in point, at the show this weekend, a melanistic bengal was being shown in "new trait" category. Melanistic = All black bengal with ghost spots that are only visible in the right lighting.

I myself am getting at least one F2 later this year, from an ALC that isn't in any of my lines. I will use these girls to re-inforce white bellies and small ears in my lines. The first kits will be F3's and not elligible for show, but I will retain the ones that we feel are show quality and then breed a next generation of show cats.

We will never duplicate the ALC, but the goal is to come as close as possible, while always maintaining the predictable lovable nature of the bengal cat.