TheCatSite.com › Forums › Our Feline Companions › Cat Health › Carpon vs. Methionine vs. Cranberry vs. Cosequin
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Carpon vs. Methionine vs. Cranberry vs. Cosequin

post #1 of 12
Thread Starter 
So Munchie has been in the clear for a awhile (no more bloody pee, no more straining, no more crystals ), and he's on a mostly wet diet now (no more Rx diet ).

There have been a lot of posts about using different "extras" to help keep a cat's urine pH low/acidic to prevent struvite stone formation. The question, how much (intervention) is too much? (i.e. wouldn't want to go too acidic and have oxalate stone issues??!)

How do people use these supplements? In a rotation?

1. Carpon (vaccinium macrocarpon extract -- cranberry extract, I think)
2. Methionine (e.g. Methigel)
3. Other cranberry sources (e.g. Solid Gold Berry Balance, cranberries in food, etc.)

4. Cosequin ("for bladder health")


P.S. Here are links to the items if anyone isn't familia w/ the itemsr:

Carpon: http://www.belfield.com/products7.html
Solid Gold Berry Balance: http://www.onlynaturalpet.com/produc...ce/140041.aspx
Methigel: http://www.entirelypets.com/methigel25oz.html
Cosequin: http://www.entirelypets.com/cosforcat80c.html
post #2 of 12
I'm not using any of the supplements mentioned. I buy L-Methionine capsules at the health food store, break them open and hide the powder in my cats' food. Currently Eric and Kolohe each receive 250mg./day. As long as the taste of the food is strong enough- I use Natural Balance Venison and Pea- they gobble it up with no problem. I'm still working on establishing the minimum dose that will keep their pH at an appropriate level and their litter box behavior good.

I did try Methigel but neither Eric of Kolohe will accept it in food nor will they lick it off their paws of my fingers.

Cosequin is actually used as an anti-inflammatory for arthritis. Here's a link to an explanation of it.
http://www.veterinarypartner.com/Con...=1&SourceID=52

The person who mentioned Cosequin also gave the generic name of Amitriptylene. The brand name is Elavil. It has been used in cats for FLUTD. Here's a good article about it on Marvistavet.
http://www.marvistavet.com/html/body_amitriptyline.html

Anyone using a urinary acidifier of any kind should be aware of the long term issue of metabolic acidosis. There is evidence that long term use of an acidified diet be a contributing factor in CRF. Here's one article.
http://www.city-cats.com/kidney.html

It's probably OK to try different methods to find the one that will work for your cat. Once you find that method I think you should stay with it so that the cat's system can adapt to the medication/supplement.

I'm glad to hear that Munchie is doing well. The wet diets are important for any cat prone to crystals. If Munchie can maintain a good pH on the wet diet without a supplement I would do that. I use Methionine only because my boys can't do that and I do not want to use the RX diets.
post #3 of 12
Thread Starter 
Yeah, Cosequin is largely used for joint issues. But I noticed that some people said they gave it for "bladder health" as well on the suggestion of their vets. Here's the explanation from the company (4th question from the top): http://www.nutramaxlabs.com/products...in_cat_FAQ.asp

Munchie was on amitriptyline briefly to mitigate bladder spasm; though it helped him pee, it affected his mood -- he was a bit jumpy and cranky and sluggish (his meows turned into "warhhs" and "woorhs") ...

I haven't used any supplements yet. I'm considering the Berry Balance from Solid Gold; I think it's a powder(?) that can be sprinkled into food or the Carpon, since I noticed that some foods may already have some methionine added.
post #4 of 12
Jean44 summed up the details real well.

I used the L-Methionine (from the health food store) for awhile. Beandip wouldn't accept it in his food, but then again - his food doesn't have a strong flavor so that's a good point. So, I loaded it into smaller cat-sized capsules and pilled him. That's not much fun, though so I switched to these

http://www.drsfostersmith.com/produc...pc=1&N=0&Nty=1

We use the tablets, as Beandip's not too fond of the malty pastes.

He loves the tablets though, they're tasty.

I give him 1/4 tablet morning and evening, unless I think he's having a rough time then I bump it up to the full dose (1/2 tablet 2x a day).

Beandip didn't like the Methigel. He was on it for 2 weeks a long time ago, and I had to syringe it into him. Not fun. The chewable tablets are stress-free.

I haven't used cosequin or cranberry products. The cosequin is supposed to strenthen the lining of the bladder. It wouldn't help the pH. I think if the pH is managed, either through diet or supplements, then there would be nothing there to irritate the lining (such as crystals or bacteria) so there wouldn't be much need for that. Maybe I'm missing something.

As far as pH goes, when Beandip was on the rx food his pH was always 6.5, which should be OK - but he always had struvite crystals anyway. Keeping it closer to 6.0 keeps Beandip out of trouble.

I do recommend monitoring pH if using any of these products we're talking about.
post #5 of 12
Thread Starter 
Thanks, Jean44 and beandip!

How are people monitoring urine pH (successfully)?
Any recommendations on where to buy testing strips?

We use crystal litter, so I'm thinking of slipping a tester strip into Munchie's "pee corner" (he and Doc have their own pee areas in the box ) and checking that way.
post #6 of 12
strips www.ph-ion.com I give carpon which is working well, fang's Ph is usually 6.5 to 7.0. the carpon is supposed to work after 5 hours of giving, Fang pees 8 hours after I give the pill. He is doing well, no symptoms of crystas. I want to change the product though because of the expense. I ordered the methione, will try that and check ph, glad you posted this thread.
post #7 of 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by whiskerynature View Post
Thanks, Jean44 and beandip!

How are people monitoring urine pH (successfully)?
Any recommendations on where to buy testing strips?

We use crystal litter, so I'm thinking of slipping a tester strip into Munchie's "pee corner" (he and Doc have their own pee areas in the box ) and checking that way.
The test strips are available at most pharmacies. I don't think it would work to insert a test strip in Munchie's "pee corner". The strips are designed to be inserted in the pee and read after a precise number of seconds- maybe 30 seconds. At least that is the case for the diabetic test strips I have for Eric (and don't use now that I'm testing his blood glucose). If Munchie will cooperate you can try holding a shallow dish under him as he pees to collect a sample. Eric will allow that if I catch him at the right time. Good luck if you try that.

I agree with beandip that a pH closer to 6.0 is better. My two boys certainly use the litter box reliably when their pH is close to six. As it creeps up to 6.5 the inappropriate urination starts. This may not be true for all cats. Just be aware that as the pH drops below 6.0 the danger of calcium oxalate crystals increases. Calcium oxalate crystals cannot be dissolved. The usual cure is surgery to remove the crystals.

Thanks, beandip and whiskeynature, for the information about Cosequin and the bladder lining. I looked at many web sites trying to find out how it related to urinary tract issues but couldn't find what I wanted. I should have been smart enough to check the company site.
post #8 of 12
2 and 3 are the first line for my thinking... cranberry power NOT just cranberry

AVOID mainly fish wet foods ( all fish if you can)
post #9 of 12
I use the Cosequin for my chronic cystitis kitty. It is amazing how much better she seems to feel. Her bladder wall is extremely thickened and she has had to have surgery in the past. She is a senior kitty, 12, and will stay on the Cosequin the rest of her life. If you look on Amazon you can get it really inexpensively. It doesn't change her urine pH though.

Like Beandip, the Methiotabs go over big here too. Zoe thinks they are treats. When I first got them, I thought no way in the world was she going to eat that. 5 minutes later all the cats were trying to get into them. Go figure.


For the urine testing, I too use the shallow dish under them. Usually get a wet hand. too. I buy my test strips at Amazon as well. I test for more than just pH. A word of warning though, the leukocyte (white blue cell) pad have false readings in cats for some reason. so don't spend the extra money for that one. I like the pH, glucose, Nitrite and RBC's.

Interesting enough, since I have started feeding homemade food, the pH issues have not been a problem ( knock on wood).
post #10 of 12
Summer takes Cosequin to help stengthen her bladder lining. I've used cranberry in the past while she's had a UTI, and it seems to make her feel better at least. The vet also suggested methigel (but only if I used a non-UTI food). It's a pain to give it and gets all over her, so I stopped.

The combination of feliway (to reduce the stress that may have been a factor), cosequin, and UTI appropriate food has seemed to help so far.
post #11 of 12
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by gailuvscats View Post
strips www.ph-ion.com I give carpon which is working well, fang's Ph is usually 6.5 to 7.0. the carpon is supposed to work after 5 hours of giving, Fang pees 8 hours after I give the pill. He is doing well, no symptoms of crystas. I want to change the product though because of the expense. I ordered the methione, will try that and check ph, glad you posted this thread.
So these strips should be adequate, right? The Alkalive ones? http://www.ph-ion.com/index.asp?Page...PROD&ProdID=18

I saw these on drugstore.com, but they pick up other things as well and are much, much more expensive at 100strips/$80(!), but they can detect microscopic blood also (i.e. before it's visible to the naked eye): http://www.drugstore.com/products/pr...65&catid=11645
post #12 of 12
Quote:
So these strips should be adequate, right? The Alkalive ones? http://www.ph-ion.com/index.asp?Page...PROD&ProdID=18
Yes, those are what I use. No need to pay for stuff that you don't need. I think I get the ph reading close enough with these, since they give different degrees. Plus they are sturdy plastic and hold up to a waving under the bum as the stream is flowing. Fang doesn't even notice. We are happy with those.
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Cat Health
TheCatSite.com › Forums › Our Feline Companions › Cat Health › Carpon vs. Methionine vs. Cranberry vs. Cosequin