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Simplified English - Page 2

post #31 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by lunasmom View Post
If this does pass, who wants to help me write (i mean riit) the first English to English dictionary??? NE1?
ME! ME!

But shouldn't it be "English to Inglish Dikshonary"?
post #32 of 53
It's no longer possible to make English phoentic. Consider all the dialects. Example: the British and Aussies say:

"aluminium"

And the Americans say:

"aluminum"

How about the word "roof"? In the US, this is either "roof" or "ruf", depending on locale. Even tiny areas have weird pronounciations. The area around Pittsburgh says downtown "donton" (rhymes with wonton). So, anyone growing up there would still have a hard time with that word.

Besides all the people in other countries. I met a woman from Papa New Guinea once. They use English words, but they are pronounced so differently, this wouldn't help them learn to write English. She was brought up in an English school and had only a slight accent. However, she said the natives were barely intelligible to a native English speaker.

It takes a long time to be able to speak a language without an accent. This would only confuse foreigners, not make it easier.
post #33 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fiery View Post
Quite frankly, I have a thing against anyone who refuses to learn proper english. I don't care if you're an immigrant(people who are in the process of learning and are making a good effort need not take offense) or a teen speaking "ghetto" or "gangsta"(as THEY named it), it bothers the heck out of me when people choose to speak/write unintelligently.
The only reason you judge the other spoken dialects poorly is because of who speaks them. There is nothing less logical or less grammatical about them. The group of people in charge-- white, middle class, educated people-- determine what is called 'proper', ie, it's only the so-called right way to talk because of who speaks that way. If you notice, there are hardly any positives stated as a case for it being better, only that the other ones are wrong.

Nobody, not you, not me, speaks the perfect Standard English that we all, no matter what dialect we speak, should be writing in. I do totally agree about the writing aspect of it though. Everyone has to learn the mechanics and ways to write in English-- it doesn't come naturally for anyone.
post #34 of 53
I'll state a case for proper grammar and standard English as being better: if everyone spoke the same, there would be less miscommunication and less misunderstanding.
post #35 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by bab-ush-niik View Post
It's no longer possible to make English phoentic. Consider all the dialects. Example: the British and Aussies say:

"aluminium"

And the Americans say:

"aluminum"

How about the word "roof"? In the US, this is either "roof" or "ruf", depending on locale. Even tiny areas have weird pronounciations. The area around Pittsburgh says downtown "donton" (rhymes with wonton). So, anyone growing up there would still have a hard time with that word.

Besides all the people in other countries. I met a woman from Papa New Guinea once. They use English words, but they are pronounced so differently, this wouldn't help them learn to write English. She was brought up in an English school and had only a slight accent. However, she said the natives were barely intelligible to a native English speaker.

It takes a long time to be able to speak a language without an accent. This would only confuse foreigners, not make it easier.
...and in Massachusetts some of us don't pronounce the R... I mean the aaaah.

Paahk the Caah in Haahvaad Yaahd and Pooda Kwarta in da Meeta.
post #36 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by coaster View Post
I'll state a case for proper grammar and standard English as being better: if everyone spoke the same, there would be less miscommunication and less misunderstanding.
While it is true that there would be less miscommunication and misunderstanding, how are you going to choose which dialect to force onto the people who don't speak it?
post #37 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by icklemiss21 View Post
They actually see it as the answer to our education system. There would be less dyslexics because the language would be easier to understand. Children would do better in other courses because they would understand the texts more easily, those sort of arguments.
whats this english you speak of
sorry, it would not really help people that are dyslexic(since i am one)
Indo is all its spelled and spoken just the way it sounds and looks,
Guess what i still type things backwards sometimes
post #38 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by ReesesPBC View Post
ME! ME!

But shouldn't it be "English to Inglish Dikshonary"?
You are so right!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by bab-ush-niik View Post
It's no longer possible to make English phoentic. Consider all the dialects. Example: the British and Aussies say:

"aluminium"

And the Americans say:

"aluminum"

How about the word "roof"? In the US, this is either "roof" or "ruf", depending on locale. Even tiny areas have weird pronounciations. The area around Pittsburgh says downtown "donton" (rhymes with wonton). So, anyone growing up there would still have a hard time with that word.

Besides all the people in other countries. I met a woman from Papa New Guinea once. They use English words, but they are pronounced so differently, this wouldn't help them learn to write English. She was brought up in an English school and had only a slight accent. However, she said the natives were barely intelligible to a native English speaker.

It takes a long time to be able to speak a language without an accent. This would only confuse foreigners, not make it easier.
I was thinking about dialects on the way home too. For instance I say milk like its spelled "melk"

So then would I just start spelling it "Melk" since that is the way I pronounce it??

Or even how to simplify between the two dialects for "the". some people say "thuh" (rhymes with "duh") or "thee".

I think that this "Simplifying the english language" will make it more complex. Unless you expect Southern Accents, New York accents, Mid-west accents, etc to all go away.
post #39 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zissou'sMom View Post
how are you going to choose which dialect to force onto the people who don't speak it?
It's up to the schools to teach English spelling and grammar. There doesn't need to be a choice. English isn't a dialect, it's a language. There are proper spellings and there's proper grammar. There are reference books for standardization. If people wish to use a corrupted version of English in their everyday lives, that's their choice. But it's to their detriment in the course of social and business intercourse if they don't know/don't use normal English in this country. (Here I'm not using dialect as meaning regional pronounciation.)
post #40 of 53
What is proper English though? British English? American English? Australian/New Zealand English?

Should we return to the Renaissance and speak Old English??
post #41 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by coaster View Post
It's up to the schools to teach English spelling and grammar. There doesn't need to be a choice. English isn't a dialect, it's a language. There are proper spellings and there's proper grammar. There are reference books for standardization. If people wish to use a corrupted version of English in their everyday lives, that's their choice. But it's to their detriment in the course of social and business intercourse if they don't know/don't use normal English in this country. (Here I'm not using dialect as meaning regional pronounciation.)
Schools teach written language; and I agree that written English should be standardized. Nobody speaks the written, standardized form of English.

If people deviate from that in speech it does not mean it is corrupt. They also don't 'choose' the dialect they speak. You speak the dialect of those around you, and there are markers in everyone's speech that nobody ever notices that are related to your class and education levels. Read my post below-- that is a judgment based on the fact that the people speaking that dialect are not the ones with social prestige and economic power. If they were, our dialect would be the one judged as 'wrong' or 'improper'.
post #42 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zissou'sMom View Post
... Nobody speaks the written, standardized form of English. .
I do.

People in the communications field do. Most people in business and finance do. People in the educational field do.

To be fluent in a language, it's spoken very much like it's written.
post #43 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by lunasmom View Post
What is proper English though? British English? American English? Australian/New Zealand English?
All three are the same language. The chief differences between the three are the idioms unique to each, the pronounciation, and some spellings. Obviously American English is proper in America, British English is proper in Britain, etc. etc.
post #44 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by coaster View Post
I do.

People in the communications field do. Most people in business and finance do. People in the educational field do.

To be fluent in a language, it's spoken very much like it's written.
Something tells me we're going to have to agree to disagree about this.

But record yourself chatting with friends some day, and then transcribe the conversation. I used to think I speak as I write too.

To clarify, my own dialect is one that most people would consider 'standard' as well.
post #45 of 53
If I am a person who was well educated and saw the "simplified" version of English being written say for instance by someone applying for a job I would not even consider that person. I think with text messaging the spelling of many people have declined and personally if you can't spell words the way you should have been taught shame on you. I think it reflects poorly as a nation to see the decline in the standard of the English language.
post #46 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zissou'sMom View Post
Something tells me we're going to have to agree to disagree about this.

But record yourself chatting with friends some day, and then transcribe the conversation. I used to think I speak as I write too.

To clarify, my own dialect is one that most people would consider 'standard' as well.
You write very well. I'm willing to bet you speak well, too. Something tells me the disagreement is mainly semantics -- what's "proper" -- what's "corrupt" -- what's a "dialect." In any case, agreed.
post #47 of 53
IMO, the only form of English that is correct, is the Kings English from England. That is where the language came from, and that is proper English. Even though I speak American English, I do think it's a butchered version of the language. In America, more than in New Zealand and Australia they have taken the language many years ago and simplified it, simply by misspelling words to simplify things, for example Colour to color. Why did they do that? That's really not a lot different from some of the new simplified versions of English they are proposing. Americans don't speak or write proper English and never have for hundreds of years.
post #48 of 53
Sounds like more trouble than it is worth. The English language keeps changing informally anyway, but to change it formally to "simplify" it, nah!
post #49 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by GailC View Post
I think it reflects poorly as a nation to see the decline in the standard of the English language.
It is just different.
English is changing, always has, always will; just as culture changes. The changes in language are a reflection of our culture and events at hand IMO. Language is dynamic, not set in stone.
post #50 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by coaster View Post
I do.

People in the communications field do. Most people in business and finance do. People in the educational field do.

To be fluent in a language, it's spoken very much like it's written.
But it is not always written as it is spoken. Many words mean many different things. And obvious meanings might not mean the obvious at all. Literal words don't always translate well.
Many concepts of of language reflect our culture.
Furthermore, many words are not easy to spell, as we have silent sounds and spell words differently than we say them. English is difficult to learn as a second language. I have this view since I have studied language and know more than just English. One you flip your brain to learn other languages, you learn more about your own as well; as that language is your "reference point" if you will.
post #51 of 53
Wow...Tolkien would be rolling over in his grave over this "simplified English".
post #52 of 53
I agree it's quite natural for a language to change. Also, as others have pointed out, standard English is just one version of the language and by any means not superior to others.

However, as a non-native English speaker, I found nothing simple in the simplified words. They were ugly at best and unintelligible at worst. I've never felt current English was difficult. Yes, the logic is differend from e.g. my mother tongue, but not beyond most people's grasp. IMO changing the spelling would just confuse non-native speakers more.
post #53 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryn View Post
I agree it's quite natural for a language to change. Also, as others have pointed out, standard English is just one version of the language and by any means not superior to others.

However, as a non-native English speaker, I found nothing simple in the simplified words. They were ugly at best and unintelligible at worst. I've never felt current English was difficult. Yes, the logic is differend from e.g. my mother tongue, but not beyond most people's grasp. IMO changing the spelling would just confuse non-native speakers more.
I've been rather well-trained in English but I must admit I have a great deal of difficulty trying to read the simplified English. My humble opinion is that we should be taught the proper form and then if you want to trash it amongst your friends that is your prerogative but I really don't want slang pushed on me. I don't like slang at the best of times so it would break my heart to have it declared our new official language.
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