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China and product safety

post #1 of 29
Thread Starter 


http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...3Demail&sub=AR

Do you think China will really make sweeping reforms to vastly improve product safety, or simply rely on PR measures?

Do you believe all food sold should be labeled with the country of origin?
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...?tid=informbox
post #2 of 29
i have without a doubt, that china will make NO reform.

and if every thing were labeled with country of origin, i would never again buy stuff from china....ESPECIALLY food/consumption.

but it seems EVERYTHING is made in china.....so perhaps this is our death.
post #3 of 29
China will beef up their product safety for export because if the US/European companies cannot trust it, they will move elsewhere. And they will be checking because they, not their Chinese suppliers, will be sued. The US/European companies cannot get any restitution through the Chinese courts.

And there will be the tit-for-tat complaints. It will be interesting to see if the Chinese people shy away from imports when one considers that 25% of the goods on their shelves should be recalled as dangerous.
post #4 of 29
Thread Starter 
I didn't realize/notice that the origin of meat in the U.S. isn't on most labels, I suppose because I don't eat much meat, and lookk for "U.S. Grade A" or whatever. It is here in the EU, even on many premium pet foods, as a direct result of BSE

It angers me that politicians put the interests of lobbyists ahead of those of consumers.
post #5 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by jcat View Post
I didn't realize/notice that the origin of meat in the U.S. isn't on most labels, I suppose because I don't eat much meat, and lookk for "U.S. Grade A" or whatever. It is here in the EU, even on many premium pet foods, as a direct result of BSE

It angers me that politicians put the interests of lobbyists ahead of those of consumers.
Our government favors the lobbyists and the corporations over the consumers. It is getting worse with our Supreme court decisions lately. Basically it is a buyer beware and if you get screwed, tough.
post #6 of 29
YES, I want to know where my food is coming from.

I don't have much faith in China.
post #7 of 29
No China will not reform and we will probably not stop buying from China.

I personally would like a label indicating where the ingredients came from or the countries involved in making the product. My only fear though is that Menu select or who ever produces the label will place the font so tiny we'll all be cross-eyed just from reading the cans.

The only downside I could see of this, however is that consumers will pass judgement. China has many questionable morals, yes, but contamination can come from ANYWHERE including our own country (Spinach anyone?)
post #8 of 29
You are probably right Lunasmom, I can't read half the ingredients on some things now.
post #9 of 29
Sweeping reforms? No. A few showcase reforms just in time for the 2008 Olympics, probably. A few showcase enforcements like the guy who was executed. China is an awfully large country. And no great motive for reform; after all, the Chinese government benefits from things as they are. They still have a large ownership interest in much of the business sector.

Country of origin? Most definitely!!
post #10 of 29
nope not yet, this is not the first time that food or drugs have killed people in china. They have made no changes. I realliy doubt they will now.

how i hate to say it, under the table, dealing,and kick back etc, are normal business there. the guy they killed, was more a PR stunt, and maybe cause he did not kick back enough funds to h is boss.

Most of time we still get are Meat from family members farms.
post #11 of 29
Yea, they executed a scapegoat to prove their reforms. I don't think that accepting bribes from morally bankrupt companies and allowing them to have their terrible practices should be a capital offense. Happens here all the time.

Definitely food should be labeled with its country of origin. It should also be clearly labeled, ie, no more vague ingredients like "natural flavors" or "spices".

My sister and BIL refuse to buy anything from China for my nephew, toys, carseats, etc. Not a bad idea, considering what they seem to let slide. We do have plenty of our own food contamination, but it has never been intentional to make a buck. They also trace it as quickly as possible, pull it immediately. and try to notify people.

But what is much more important is to start regulating pet products as well as we do people products. Get rid of the deadly OTC flea meds FIRST. Then make their food as safe as ours and to the same standards. There will still be tragedies, but the whole time of this recall I just kept imagining what would be happening if it were food for humans.
post #12 of 29
I have avoided made in CHINA since I was a little girl.. Still do and will contiue
post #13 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zissou'sMom View Post
Yea, they executed a scapegoat to prove their reforms. I don't think that accepting bribes from morally bankrupt companies and allowing them to have their terrible practices should be a capital offense. Happens here all the time.
.

hmm, and here you go to jail, To say its the same here, is like saying, we are the same when he comes to views on animal abuse. Its no where near the same. In some parts of the word bribes are just normal and often done right out in the open.

lol i had to pay extra to the person at the phone company to get them to put in internet lines for my coffee shop. Along with the normal charge of course.
Its no where near here as to what it is there.
post #14 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by theimp98 View Post
hmm, and here you go to jail, To say its the same here, is like saying, we are the same when he comes to views on animal abuse. Its no where near the same. In some parts of the word bribes are just normal and often done right out in the open.:
Way I see it, here it is institutionalized in the form of campaign contributions. And the revolving door-- you are the head of the agency responsible for regulating whatever industry (timber, oil, pigs, etc) and then you go be a higher-up for that industry or a well-paid lobbyist. If you've done what they wanted. Heck, we even let oil companies write our energy policies and hog farmers write the policies dealing with their run-off.

Don't stick me with saying that's the same as saying we're the same about animal abuse. It's never even mentioned and totally not the same.
post #15 of 29
It will be well-nigh impossible to maintain a China-free lifestyle. So much everyday stuff is manufactured there. Almost every piece of WalMart clothing is made in China. I have already quit buying their Faded Glory jeans, as they wear out too quickly.

For myself, I'm going to be more discriminating in buying things that might affect my health/safety: food, OTC pharmaceuticals , cosmetics and toothpaste.

Fortunately, my pet foods were not on the recall list.
post #16 of 29
So many of the goods produced in China for export to the U.S. are made under contract to U.S. companies, or made by Chinese companies owned outright by U.S. companies. So I think some of the blame needs to be put on U.S. companies which are just outsourcing product in China and aren't paying close enough attention to how the product is made. I think some of the changes which China needs to make could be introduced easier if the U.S. companies doing business there wrote them into their contracts: better treatment of workers, environmental protections, copyright protection, etc. etc. Trying to get these changes implemented on a government to government level is going to take decades, if at all. Bringing in the changes "by the back door" -- U.S. companies requiring manufacturing to U.S. standards in China even if the law there doesn't require it. Soon they'll be doing it as a regular course of doing business with the U.S. and since so much of their business is export to the U.S., it'll become standard practice throughout their entire economy.
post #17 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by coaster View Post
So many of the goods produced in China for export to the U.S. are made under contract to U.S. companies, or made by Chinese companies owned outright by U.S. companies. So I think some of the blame needs to be put on U.S. companies which are just outsourcing product in China and aren't paying close enough attention to how the product is made. I think some of the changes which China needs to make could be introduced easier if the U.S. companies doing business there wrote them into their contracts: better treatment of workers, environmental protections, copyright protection, etc. etc. Trying to get these changes implemented on a government to government level is going to take decades, if at all. Bringing in the changes "by the back door" -- U.S. companies requiring manufacturing to U.S. standards in China even if the law there doesn't require it. Soon they'll be doing it as a regular course of doing business with the U.S. and since so much of their business is export to the U.S., it'll become standard practice throughout their entire economy.
I agree with the majority of that wholeheartedly. I do think we need better labeling all the way around, including what country it's manufactured in. That being said, though, there's absolutely no reason that the US should not be held accountable for making sure that the products that they import are up to US standards. The burden here falls on the country with the higher standards, imo. If US companies bargain and outsource their labor to save on costs, then it is THEIR responsibility to make sure that the companies they're doing business with are up to snuff. The bottom line here, like with anything in corporate America, is the almighty dollar. It's all about profit and making sure that their corporations make as much as they can, instead of taking a more moral and careful route and providing quality products produced in an ethical environment.

To be honest, though, I'm not entirely sure that this isn't partially a set up, considering that China is a target.
post #18 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by katl8e View Post
It will be well-nigh impossible to maintain a China-free lifestyle. So much everyday stuff is manufactured there. Almost every piece of WalMart clothing is made in China. I have already quit buying their Faded Glory jeans, as they wear out too quickly.
Maybe it's time to stop shopping at Walmart? The detriments to our society as a whole caused by their practices don't stop with selling Chinese-made everything.
post #19 of 29
i would love to have a consumer list of products that the parts produced in chinaare are 50% or higher. But i doubt that would happen.
post #20 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by coaster View Post
So many of the goods produced in China for export to the U.S. are made under contract to U.S. companies, or made by Chinese companies owned outright by U.S. companies. So I think some of the blame needs to be put on U.S. companies which are just outsourcing product in China and aren't paying close enough attention to how the product is made. I think some of the changes which China needs to make could be introduced easier if the U.S. companies doing business there wrote them into their contracts: better treatment of workers, environmental protections, copyright protection, etc. etc. Trying to get these changes implemented on a government to government level is going to take decades, if at all. Bringing in the changes "by the back door" -- U.S. companies requiring manufacturing to U.S. standards in China even if the law there doesn't require it. Soon they'll be doing it as a regular course of doing business with the U.S. and since so much of their business is export to the U.S., it'll become standard practice throughout their entire economy.
That's very true...we would need some sort of law passed that would help regulate what comes in and out of this country. Maybe not as extreme as Sarbanes-Oxely, but similar.

The only argument I would have with this though is how would this get inspected? will every single piece of cat food ingrediants coming into this country or Canada be inspected? Supply and Demand would not allow for this and the cost of pet food would go up. The group in these forums would understand that its for the health of their animal, but there are too many people out there that aren't educated in these respects that wouldn't understand, complain about the lack of pet food and demand that things change.
post #21 of 29
The only practical way is at the point of origin. Chinese inspectors trained by, certified by, and employed by the U.S. company importing the product. When you can trust the process, when you can trust the producer, then only spot inspections need by made. That's the way it's done here. It can be done there, but we have to require it be done to our standards and satisfaction, and if the U.S. companies require it as a prerequisite for doing business, then I think it can work.
post #22 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by coaster View Post
The only practical way is at the point of origin. Chinese inspectors trained by, certified by, and employed by the U.S. company importing the product. When you can trust the process, when you can trust the producer, then only spot inspections need by made. That's the way it's done here. It can be done there, but we have to require it be done to our standards and satisfaction, and if the U.S. companies require it as a prerequisite for doing business, then I think it can work.
When McDonald's opened in Moscow, they sent people over there to actually TEACH the Russians how to process the ingredients, to McDonalds standards. They even had to set up classes on personal hygeine and deportment for the store employees.
post #23 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zissou'sMom View Post
Maybe it's time to stop shopping at Walmart? The detriments to our society as a whole caused by their practices don't stop with selling Chinese-made everything.

Hey, what about their $4.00 prescriptions for the poor? I think that is very good.
Just don't see what is wrong with Walmart. Capitalism at its finest IMO
post #24 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by ckblv View Post
Hey, what about their $4.00 prescriptions for the poor? I think that is very good.
Just don't see what is wrong with Walmart. Capitalism at its finest IMO
Capitalism at its worst. It's called a monopoly, and it is illegal. They undercut competition until it closes and then raise prices. They bait-and-switch suppliers, agreeing on one price and then once the delivery is made, they refuse to pay the agreed-upon prices and the supplier is forced to take the blow because it would cost more just to bring the stuff back. And that's ignoring their heinous labor policies.

This includes buying cheap, questionable products from China and selling them here. It is hard to find anything really made in America after NAFTA at any store-- my point was only that if you don't want to buy products from China and that's all they seem to have at Walmart, hopefully they aren't the only game in town. And if they are, well then there's another problem right there, that means your life and community are dependent on a corporation.
post #25 of 29
Everyone buys their stuff from China, not just Walmart.

I don't think it is a monopoly to have the lowest prices.

Many people just don't like them because they aren't Union.
post #26 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zissou'sMom View Post
This includes buying cheap, questionable products from China and selling them here.
That's true. Even business owners here in the US are required to have their products outsourced to China. I remember reading about some guy in BusinessWeek that produced lawn mowers here in the US (no not John Deer ). This was recent...he built great lawn mowers and went to Walmart to see if he could partner up. In the article he said that Walmart wouldn't deal with him unless he outsourced the manufacturing to China (so that they could lower the cost). He said no...he wanted to keep the jobs here in the U.S. So he began selling them on his own and is making a name out of what he sells.
[/end ]
post #27 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by ckblv View Post
Everyone buys their stuff from China, not just Walmart.

I don't think it is a monopoly to have the lowest prices.

Many people just don't like them because they aren't Union.
There are a lot of companies that aren't Union that people still like, or.. I guess more specifically that pro-Union people like, and will support or shop at. Wal-Mart might as well paint an inverted pentagram on their front door because they worship just about everything that evil stands for.

But I still think the responsibility, above and beyond or indifferent even, of Wal-Mart, falls to the USA for keeping their imported goods in compliance with US standards.
post #28 of 29
http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/asiapc...eat/index.html

china bands us food?
why do i think its more a counter to there bad PR
post #29 of 29
It was reported on the Good Morning America news segment this morning that fully one-third of our food imports come from China. Now that's a scary thought. And makes me think the surface of this problem has been barely scratched. Country of origin labelling is an absolutely necessary and highest priority step for the FDA, so at least consumers are aware of where their food comes from and can choose whether to expose themselves to the risk or not.
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