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Pope on a rampage?

post #1 of 29
Thread Starter 
This new pope seems to be set in his mind that he is going to offend and alienate everyone. First he insulted Islam, and now he says that any christian denomination other than catholic isn't a true church.

Pope publishes that non-catholic churches are "not true churches"
post #2 of 29
I never could understand why the Archbishops voted him in. There were so many better candidates. He is going to alienate half of the remaining members of his own church and get Catholic haters around the world a good reason to resent his "Catholic Superiority Complex".

As a Roman Catholic, I am appalled at some of the things this man is doing.
post #3 of 29
WOW, way to bring Christians together there Pope.

He's no Pope John Paul is he?
post #4 of 29
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ckblv View Post
WOW, way to bring Christians together there Pope.

He's no Pope John Paul is he?
Sadly, no. I'm not Catholic, but I really LIKED Pope John Paul. A loving soul, with a heart of peace, and really, REALLY smart!!! This guy.....I dunno
post #5 of 29
I have a sneaking suspicion that this Pope feels that Pope John Paul was much to liberal.
post #6 of 29
So... if we don't follow the Pope, we're wrong. What a strange thing for a pope to say. All this does is create ill will towards him and remind Protestants what it was they were protesting.

No religion has a monopoly on right-ness. You would think that at a time like this, he would be trying to get closer to all the other people of the same faith (ie, everyone who believes in the Christian god and that Jesus was his son sent to save everyone from their sins) not trying to push them away.

Is he trying to cause a schism?
post #7 of 29
Well, this isn't exactly a new teaching of the Catholic Church, its been around as long as I know.

Here's the thing - those denominations descended from the Protestant Reformation no longer have what the Catholic Church calls "apostolic succession" - meaning that individual pastors cannot trace their "lineage" from the laying on of hands back to one of the Twelve Apostles. Some of the Orthodox churches have this lineage intact, and thus are actual churches.

This doesn't mean that members of these Protestant denominations are any less Christian - Pope Benedict would never deny that fact and has not denied that fact.

What has to be understood, whether you agree with it or not, is that the Catholic Church views herself as the original Church founded by Jesus Christ 2000 years ago, with the promise that the gates of Hell would never prevail against her. Thus she has been guarded from error of doctrine or morals (but not error in other things) throughout history. As such, she contains the fulness of the revealed truth, as much as man can understand at this point.

Catholics understand all religions to share in a portion of that truth, some more than others. We welcome Protestants as brothers and sisters, though seperated in some teachings, and would never deny their Christianity.

I think what he might be trying to correct here is a misunderstanding of what ecumenism means. Ecumenism, from the Church's perspective, is reaching out and reuniting all Christians, but not at the expense of the truth. In other words, he is re-emphasizing the fact that the truth cannot be sacrificed for the sake of brotherhood, though of course there is a right and a wrong way to approach it.


You guys know how the media is - they want to make things more dramatic than they really are. He's not saying that Protestants are any less Christian or less a follower of Jesus - just that they don't fit the definition of a "church" as the Catholic Church sees it.
post #8 of 29
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zissou'sMom View Post
Is he trying to cause a schism?
I don't know if he's trying to cause a schism, or if he actually thinks that he can "guilt trip" the other churches back to catholicism.
post #9 of 29
One of my Christian friends told me that as she was taught in Catholic school, any other division of Christianity was to be considered a cult, regardless of the fact that it was still a form of Christianity. Now, she doesn't personally agree with this, but this was the way it was taught to her in Catholic school when she was a girl (about twenty years ago, give or take). So, to whatever "branch" of Catholicism her school praticed, other churches such as United, Baptist or Presbyterian, are all to be considered cults and don't practice the "right" form of Christianity. I've heard other Christians say similar things (it usually spawns from a discussion about what I consider cults, like the followers of David Koresh or Charles Manson, and then turns into a conversation about what they were told, in school, were cults, and how the definition varies), so the pope's comments don't seem completely out of place to me. I don't agree with them, but I can see where the mentality comes from -- that everyone else is wrong but him and those who agree with him.

It is not a mentality that is likely to foster religious peace and unity, that's for certain.
post #10 of 29
Who is the Pope to say that any other Christian religion is not true?
He is just a man, and he is fallible.
To me the Catholic church needs to get themselves straight and not worry about the Protestants. Maybe weed out all the pedophile priests.

All it does bringing up stuff like this is create hard feelings.

A church does NOT have to trace it's roots back to Simon Peter to be a true Christian church. IMO this Pope has his priorities messed up.
post #11 of 29
When I got married I asked my best friend to be my Maid of Honor (I am Lutheran and was getting married in the Lutheran church)

Her mother wouldn't let her participate in my wedding, as she was Roman Catholic and it was not permitted.
post #12 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirinae View Post
One of my Christian friends told me that as she was taught in Catholic school, any other division of Christianity was to be considered a cult, regardless of the fact that it was still a form of Christianity. Now, she doesn't personally agree with this, but this was the way it was taught to her in Catholic school when she was a girl (about twenty years ago, give or take). So, to whatever "branch" of Catholicism her school praticed, other churches such as United, Baptist or Presbyterian, are all to be considered cults and don't practice the "right" form of Christianity. I've heard other Christians say similar things (it usually spawns from a discussion about what I consider cults, like the followers of David Koresh or Charles Manson, and then turns into a conversation about what they were told, in school, were cults, and how the definition varies), so the pope's comments don't seem completely out of place to me. I don't agree with them, but I can see where the mentality comes from -- that everyone else is wrong but him and those who agree with him.

It is not a mentality that is likely to foster religious peace and unity, that's for certain.
Yikes....just so you know, THAT is not an official teaching of the Catholic Church. We definitely don't teach that all non-Catholic Christian denominations are cults...if that's what her school taught, they were out of line.
post #13 of 29
I'm just going to sit back and enjoy the show - watch how what is said is twisted by the media and interpreted or mis-interpreted by the general populace, see what spin is put on it by some folks. It will probably be better entertainment than some of the shows on TV these days.
post #14 of 29
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yosemite View Post
It will probably be better entertainment than some of the shows on TV these days.
Watching cars rust is better entertainment that some of the shows on TV these days
post #15 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sandtigress View Post
Well, this isn't exactly a new teaching of the Catholic Church, its been around as long as I know.

Here's the thing - those denominations descended from the Protestant Reformation no longer have what the Catholic Church calls "apostolic succession" - meaning that individual pastors cannot trace their "lineage" from the laying on of hands back to one of the Twelve Apostles. Some of the Orthodox churches have this lineage intact, and thus are actual churches.

This doesn't mean that members of these Protestant denominations are any less Christian - Pope Benedict would never deny that fact and has not denied that fact.

What has to be understood, whether you agree with it or not, is that the Catholic Church views herself as the original Church founded by Jesus Christ 2000 years ago, with the promise that the gates of Hell would never prevail against her. Thus she has been guarded from error of doctrine or morals (but not error in other things) throughout history. As such, she contains the fulness of the revealed truth, as much as man can understand at this point.

Catholics understand all religions to share in a portion of that truth, some more than others. We welcome Protestants as brothers and sisters, though seperated in some teachings, and would never deny their Christianity.

I think what he might be trying to correct here is a misunderstanding of what ecumenism means. Ecumenism, from the Church's perspective, is reaching out and reuniting all Christians, but not at the expense of the truth. In other words, he is re-emphasizing the fact that the truth cannot be sacrificed for the sake of brotherhood, though of course there is a right and a wrong way to approach it.


You guys know how the media is - they want to make things more dramatic than they really are. He's not saying that Protestants are any less Christian or less a follower of Jesus - just that they don't fit the definition of a "church" as the Catholic Church sees it.
Thank you. That was beautifully stated.
post #16 of 29
Ratzinger has always been known to be very conservative regarding church matters, so this doesn't surprise me in the least. One reason I'm a lapsed Catholic is all the insistence on "one true church".
post #17 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirinae View Post
One of my Christian friends told me that as she was taught in Catholic school, any other division of Christianity was to be considered a cult, regardless of the fact that it was still a form of Christianity. Now, she doesn't personally agree with this, but this was the way it was taught to her in Catholic school when she was a girl (about twenty years ago, give or take). So, to whatever "branch" of Catholicism her school praticed, other churches such as United, Baptist or Presbyterian, are all to be considered cults and don't practice the "right" form of Christianity. I've heard other Christians say similar things (it usually spawns from a discussion about what I consider cults, like the followers of David Koresh or Charles Manson, and then turns into a conversation about what they were told, in school, were cults, and how the definition varies), so the pope's comments don't seem completely out of place to me. I don't agree with them, but I can see where the mentality comes from -- that everyone else is wrong but him and those who agree with him.

It is not a mentality that is likely to foster religious peace and unity, that's for certain.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sandtigress View Post
Yikes....just so you know, THAT is not an official teaching of the Catholic Church. We definitely don't teach that all non-Catholic Christian denominations are cults...if that's what her school taught, they were out of line.
The thing is though Mirinae's friend was taught the same thing I was in CCD. The words were never said, but the teaching were greatly implied. In fact I remember experiencing a Protestant service in grade school and going back to CCD asking why their "Our Father" was different from ours. I was basically told "Because they have it wrong".

Ummm...and people wonder why I left?!

Anyways I can see there being another split within the Catholic church, those that wish to modernize the Catholic church and those that wish to preserve its original traditions in the near future.
If I remember right Pope Benedict was voted to be Pope in the effort to bring the Catholic Church back to its original roots and that's what he's doing. It's not that far off from Orthodox Jews to Modern Day Jews or even Islam (Shi'ites vs. Sunnis). One side wants to preserve the faith as it was either originally intended or interpreted and the other side wishes to keep up with the times and current events (some to a degree).
post #18 of 29
I am not a Catholic. I am a Christian (baptist). But that aside, i believe that the purpose of religious leaders is to bring people together- to draw them closer to God and try to unify everyone through kindness and love. The new pope is doing the exact opposite of this. Instead of bringing everyone together in love and setting a good example for his flock, he is alienating people and making them resent one another. That is never a good thing, especially not from a religious leader.

Even though i am not Catholic- there were a lot of things that Pope John Paul and Mother Theressa did for instance when they were alive that I admire- things that encourage me to be a better person,etc. I believe that they set good examples for everyone....not just followers of the Catholic faith. I can not however say that i believe the same about the new pope though.
post #19 of 29
I know that I am not as knowledgable when it comes to the doctrines of varying forms of Christianity as most of you are, but this doesn't seem like news to me.

Hasn't the Catholic church always felt superior in terms of their "truth"?
Haven't they always been exclusive to those that don't belong by way of not allowing anyone who goes beyond the bounds of their religious practices to even be buried if not catholic, be married in their church unless catholic, belong to the church after divorce, etc, etc??

I grew up Anglican (I used the term loosely)...but my mother converted to Catholicism to marry my stepfather. She lapsed over the years in terms of practicing or attending church and even went so far as to "disown" the church after certain incidents within the family but years later, when she died, my stepfather buried her in the very church she came to despise lest she "go to hell "(or perhaps just to make his mother happy).....

I thought all Catholics assumed their way is the right way, the only way.
post #20 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by Loveysmummy View Post
I thought all Catholics assumed their way is the right way, the only way.
Having attended a Catholic high school, and a Jesuit university, I'd have to disagree. There's a lot of dissension within the Catholic Church, and Ratzinger has just added to it.
post #21 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by Loveysmummy View Post
I thought all Catholics assumed their way is the right way, the only way.
I grew up Pentacostal and Baptist ... I can tell you that Catholics do not have a corner on this type of thing.

There is a reason I don't belong to any organized religion. All the infighting, backstabbing, hypocracy and other counter-productive behaviors I witnessed. Organizing to form community should improve the world in some way, not make it worse.

This is just from my experience - my one cent's worth
post #22 of 29
Thread Starter 
Well, I'll be honest, when I posted this, I didn't know that it was actually a stance of the Catholic church. I just thought that the new pope was playing loose and fast and without a net.

If I'd read the article a bit more carefully, I'd have know that
post #23 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by ckblv View Post
WOW, way to bring Christians together there Pope.

He's no Pope John Paul is he?
lol well some would say Catholicism is not christian(not me, but i have heared people say that) lol so does that mean i can go back to calling thema cult? (kidding)
post #24 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skippymjp View Post
This new pope seems to be set in his mind that he is going to offend and alienate everyone. First he insulted Islam,[/url]

The pope speech was not a insult to islam, they(muslim) took one part of the speech , where he was talking about a speech from a older pope, But from the actions that where taken by some muslims it makes many people wonder if the speech form several hundered years ago does not still apply.
post #25 of 29
I fully realize that every religion believes that they are the only ones who really have it right. If they didn't, why go with that doctrine/denomination/religion in the first place? But with him saying it outright like that again, it harkens back to when Martin Luther split from the Catholic Church to begin with. Granted, there was a lot more corruption in the Church then (literally selling entry into heaven), but the exclusionism was the same.
post #26 of 29
My feeling is with all the horrible stuff that has been allowed to go on in the Catholic Church with regard to pedophile priests and the cover-ups of same by the church, one would THINK that the church would be a bit more humble.
post #27 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by jcat View Post
Having attended a Catholic high school, and a Jesuit university, I'd have to disagree. There's a lot of dissension within the Catholic Church, and Ratzinger has just added to it.
As a practicing Catholic, who also happens to work for the church (but is often at odds with it), I can attest to this.

Many people I know, through work and my parish, were extremely concerned when the pope was elected and even more so now with the issue of this document. Nobody I know believes that membership in the Catholic Church is the only means to salvation and the fact that this document seems to backtrack on the church's ecumenical committment has a lot of people worried.

Church leaders may claim that the document is pastoral in nature, geared toward promoting dialogue amongst the various religious denominations, along with Catholic identity among those in the pews, but I feel safe in saying that most of us who grew up in the post-Vatican II church aren't going to fall for it.
post #28 of 29
This totally explains why DH's best friend and his wife keep trying to convert us to Catholicism! (Somewhat sarcastic.)

Boy did he nearly choke when I told him I was raised Southern Baptist and that we would all have to agree that we're different and have different beliefs.

Didn't stop them from giving us a tape about how birth control is evil and destroys marriages though.

But I digress...I understand that many Catholics do not hold to the same ideals we're discussing, but it is true that many DO.
post #29 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by emrldsky View Post
This totally explains why DH's best friend and his wife keep trying to convert us to Catholicism! (Somewhat sarcastic.)

Boy did he nearly choke when I told him I was raised Southern Baptist and that we would all have to agree that we're different and have different beliefs.

Didn't stop them from giving us a tape about how birth control is evil and destroys marriages though.

But I digress...I understand that many Catholics do not hold to the same ideals we're discussing, but it is true that many DO.
I honestly think it depends on where you live. I converted to Catholicism for my hubby so our daughter would be raised in one faith. I don't go to church every Sunday. I NEVER received tapes or any information on how birth control is evil. I had a second marriage performed in a Catholic church (I was divorced from my first husband).

As mentioned above, every religion thinks theirs is the only true religion - if they didn't, why would they be so adamant about it.

Also as far as pedophiles, there are numbers of them in other religious sects - they just aren't give quite the same media attention.
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