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My unscientific data, any conclusions?

post #1 of 8
Thread Starter 
I give Fang two carpon a day and he is doing well with it, no inappropriate peeing, etc.

My goal is to try to switch him to cranberry powder in capsules with the intention of reducing costs. Carpon is 21 dollars for 50 pills and he takes two a day. He is a young cat. I have been checking his PH, plus I have a recent email from dr. Belfield on the appropriate ph, but then he confuses me, as he often does in his replies. Below is his reply and my PH data. I intend to send it to him to see what he says, but I am hoping some of you can analyze as well, or tell me another way to go about it. I can only get a reading when I am here to observe his urination.
I also fear that i may give him too much, and get the other crystals. below are belfields letter and the daily readings. Also, according to Belfield, the acidification takes place 5 hours after ingestion of the pill.

Ms. Gail Grant,
Ideally, the pH range is 6.0 to 6.5 for urine acidification. I have observed negative struvite crystals with a pH of 7.0 In my practice, I was more concerned with the absence of crystals regardless of pH. Please be advised that the urine acid pH is only necessary for a few hours since persistent acid pH can create those crystals that develop in acidic urine.

Wendell O. Belfield, D.V.M.

My data..........................................

date..... time........... PH...... last carpon given at
6/19......\t5:00 PM....... 7.25\t
6/20......\t9:30 AM..... 8......\t 6/20 7am
6/20.....\t5:00 PM.\t. ... 6\t ......... 6/20 7am
6/21.....\t6:00 AM.......\t 6.75\t
6/22.....\t6:00 PM.......\t 7\t
6/23.....\t9:15 PM\t....... 7.25\t
6/24.....\t9:13 PM\t....... 6.25\t
6/25......\t5:00 PM\t...... 7\t
6/26.....\t5:18 AM\t....... 7\t
6/28.....\t10:42 PM ... 6.5.......\t 5:30pm
6/29.....\t5:09 PM\t ........ 6\t....
7/1.......\t1;16pm\t........ 7.........\t 9am
7/4.......\t10:00 PM ...... 7........\t 9am
7/5.......\t6:30 AM\t..... 7.5.....\t 10pm..7/4
7/5.......\t5:00 PM......\t 6......\t ampill
7/5.......\t11:00 PM .,..... 7.......\t
7/6.......\t 8:45pm.......\t 7......\t 7/6... 7AM
post #2 of 8
I am probably going to confuse you more than giving you any answers.

I was wondering how you are getting the urine samples. Are you seeing your kitty go and testing the pH right away?

Urine pH is very unstable. If the sample is older than a hour at room temperature and light the test results will be elevated and invalid. ( Med Tech here, way too many hours in the lab testing pee )

Also, depending on where the urine is, like testing off the floor, there may be cleaner residue that could affect the result.

I have done the follow the cat around for a few days and test pee samples, but I have always gotten consistent values. I am really interested in the variation you are seeing and would love to know about what your vet would like you to accomplish.

Sorry I don't have any answers for you.

Oh, as an aside, has your vet recommended trying Cosequin?
post #3 of 8
I too wonder about the all over ph... as those number s could put him at risk for both kinds of crystals
post #4 of 8
Thread Starter 
I have PH strips, and I test him while he is urinating. I place the strip under the flow of urine, and read it after 15 seconds. The readings are in .25 increments, so if I am off in judging the color, it is not by much.
I tested Spike once, and his was 6.25, he does not receive carpon. I thought "normal" cats was 6.0 to 6.50.

I am not working with my vet on this, and don't intend to.
We all know that struvite crystals are dissolved in acidic Ph, and some cats need an acidifier. I don't know why.

I have considered the Cosequin, because I know the UK does that, and it is supposed to strengthen the bladder wall, somehow eliminating the formation of crystals? Not clear on that one, but before I introduce any other variables, I wanted to see what the norm is for Fang, so I will be able to see any differences.

I will send my results to Belfield and see if he has any recommendations as to dosage.
post #5 of 8
Thread Starter 
I just tested Spike (not the crystal cat) again and his reading was between 6.5 to 6.75. So two random testing of him puts him in the "normal" for cats range. I understand there is a ph surge after a meal according to something I read, it might be the PH sticks kit.
About not inquiring with the vet, I imagine the vet will say bring him in and a bunch of other stuff that costs money. When I had him in for his teeth, she had never heard of belfield or carpon, so I think discussing this with the vet would be a waste of money. Don't know any of them that are going to allow me to consult with them about this for free except for an occasional email to dr. Belfield, but then I am using his product.
post #6 of 8
The last time Beandip was tested at the vet, his pH was 7.0 and he was negative for struvite crystals...so although his pH was a bit high, it agrees with the comment that Belfield made. At the time, he was not taking any acidifiers and he was off the rx food. I started w/acidifiers then, as the 7.0 result made me nervous...because Beandip battled the struvite crystals for a year and a half.

I used L-Methionine (from the health food store) for awhile, but it was a pain loading the capsules daily. That human sized pill is huge. Some will eat it mixed in their food, but I tasted it and I can understand Beandip's refusal to eat it that way. I believe the synthetic stuff (DL form) has no taste, but I didn't try that.

I switched to these


and I am SOLD on those. They are awesome. I use the tablets (not the paste). They are HUGE but they are delicious according to Beandip, and my other cats who try to tear into the bottle! The recommended dose is 1/2 tab 2x a day. I give Beandip 1/4 tab 2x a day and he's fine on those. If he looks at me funny, I give him the 1/2 but a quarter does fine normally. At $11 for 100 pills that's at least 3 months worth even at the full dose. They're on sale half price now.
post #7 of 8
Thread Starter 
I did look at them beandip and they look interesting. dr. belfields claim is his product has not side affects and is all natural. I think I will ask him what he thinks of that product. His answer may be though, no comment because he is not familiar and it is not his. thats what he said when I asked about the cosequin. I do want to change to somehting else though, if I can find something that works, because this is too expensive. I think I will get a bottle of that to try it. I doubt if Fang will voluntarily eat it though. He refuses everything except his food.
post #8 of 8
I think they're worth a try. They crumble easily if you want, for sprinkling on top or mixing in, too. 7 of mine are really attracted to the smell of those...but I do know there are those special cases (like my exception, Leopold ). Let me know how that goes if you try them.
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