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No Excuse

post #1 of 13
Thread Starter 
A bengal breeder posted on one of the lists I belong to that she has bengal/munchkin kitten mixes for sale.

Says it was an unplanned breeding and for the rest of us not to get mad about it. Yeah right. Then don't advertise.

This sort of thing really burns me. Next thing you know someone will
think it's cool to have stunted little dwarf leopards as pets. I've seen the pics of her bengal/munchkin kittens......it's sad. Especially when you know how active the bengal breed is.

This brings to mind the thread from a week ago about catteries breeding several different breed cats and whether it can be done properly.

This is what can happen when it goes wrong.
post #2 of 13
We have Bengal/Ragdoll mixes and Ragdoll/Munchkin Ragdolls that are being purposely bred. You and I agree, there isn't an excuse, but as we both see within breeding, this isn't always the case. Breeders are not all created equal, and neither are all cats within the breed, there are breeders that won't breed Bengals to type, and some who won't breed Ragdolls to type. If there was some way I could think to fix the problem, I would be first on the list. It seems the only thing the states want to do is force mandatory spay and neuters bills, that only shut down the hobby breeder, not the one who is large and commercialized, and breeds for profit.

So now we have short Bengals and Ragdolls, and now Ragdolls come in polka dotted, sounds funny, but I can imagine neither of our lauging.
post #3 of 13
URGGHHH....

I was at the vet with Gigi and a guy s bulldog ( 2yrs and not fixed) mated with a boxer ... he was beside himself about them not being pure and had no clue about whelping or puppies( a friend let the other dog in the yard)
post #4 of 13
I don't understand why they would advertise that. My sister had an exotic/oriental from an oops litter and the breeder (a friend of theirs) wanted to keep it all hushed up, placed the kittens quietly.
post #5 of 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by missymotus View Post
I don't understand why they would advertise that. My sister had an exotic/oriental from an oops litter and the breeder (a friend of theirs) wanted to keep it all hushed up, placed the kittens quietly.
The difference seems to be that your sister's friend had an accident, those do happen, the person Nial is speaking of is purposely mixing Bengals and Munchkins. There are some "breeders" who will mix breeds and begin calling them new names, it has became a huge fad with dogs, and it seems that breeding cats and creating a mixed breed from 2 pedigreed cats, is something many are doing. I don't agree with it, but most of these people have their minds already made up, and don't wish to change that opinion.
post #6 of 13
IMO ... there is no reason to breed Bengals to Munchkins eventhough registered breeders here in Malaysia do so Their "reason" is to get the Bengal glitter/markings and pelt quality onto the short legs of munchkins. Of course, they use unregistered bengals to do so Lemme find a pic and post it later ...

But then, some "breeders" also bred Munchkins to Persians to create the Napoleans ... so where do YOU draw the line?
post #7 of 13
Some people make me sick. There are "designer breeds" in cats now?
post #8 of 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by Abymummy View Post
IMO ... there is no reason to breed Bengals to Munchkins eventhough registered breeders here in Malaysia do so Their "reason" is to get the Bengal glitter/markings and pelt quality onto the short legs of munchkins. Of course, they use unregistered bengals to do so Lemme find a pic and post it later ...

But then, some "breeders" also bred Munchkins to Persians to create the Napoleans ... so where do YOU draw the line?

I had a woman a few months back contact me for a "munchkin" Ragdoll. I explained there was no such Ragdoll, she pointed me to a site, that was mixing the breeds. IMO, it was cruel. Those of you who show realize a Ragdoll is a larger breed, a longer body structure, ect. I can't begin to imagine the back problems, and other health issues from the mixing these breeds.
A good question, where does one draw the line? What does one find acceptable and unacceptable? There are cat fancy breeds that I disagree with, but still those who responsibly breed these breeds.
Of course my chosen breed is still a relatively young breed, man made by an eccentric woman, (to say the least), if it wasn't for what we would call BYB experiences, the Ragdoll breed wouldn't exist, however it was introduced into the cat fancy and out of this has came a very popular, attractive, type cat with wonderful traits.
So do we call those who experiment with creating a new breed, eccentric, and when they accept it into the cat fancy, one feels this is now a good thing, but for those who experiment and fail, are these considered different breeders. A very difficult subject for me, I wouldn't say I was on the fence. I am not for any newer so called designer cats, however, I am not sure I can criticize if someone is really trying to create something different, in type, trait, and with good record keeping is able to create something.
I think this is a subject that could have many answers and opinions. I still however, don't feel those just putting 2 purebred cats together is doing anything positive for any breed, unless accepted outcross, and that outcross should still be health checked within a few generations back.
post #9 of 13
I'm personally against all cat mutations and breeds that make a cat divert greatly from the basic "cat" shape. Cats are absolutely a fantastic design of a creature and they can't really be improved and shouldn't be messed around with on a fundamental level.

I'm not talking about breeding for type because changing face structure, coat, eye colour etc. as long as it's not extreme doesn't change the basic functional operation of the cats body.

So there's no surprise I don't like Munchkin cats and I wish the breed hadn't been created. I don't really like Manx cats or Scottish folds either. Same goes for the most extreme perisans and siamese, although to a lesser degree, since their extreme face structure can adversely affect the cat but very good breeders can keep type and health however there are a lot of bad ones out there that don't and the cats suffer.

So yeah me being appalled at bengals being bred to munchkins on purpose is not an understatement.

I've been called a hypocrite having that opinion and then loving bengals but I'm not against breeding or man made breeds as long as the outcome is a healthy, athletic "cat shaped" cat. Which Bengals are, Ragdolls too for that matter.
post #10 of 13
Yes, it its huge in the dogs, I just don’t get it, getting a dog mixed with another is just as good as getting the pure thing. Like my friend just got a puppy that is half chewawa and half wiener dog( don’t know how to spell it) but it is retarded, I mean I don’t agree, but he seems healthy and they love him, so I would never say anything.. oi... but I don’t know... there are so many mixed animals out there, and many are really really healthy, but i have to agree, you really don’t know what you are doing if you are mixing random cats that are so different from each other. Oiiiiii
post #11 of 13
Don't get me started on the designer dogs.........

As long as someone out there finds a person to buy a designer dog or cat or whatever, they will breed them. Makes me mad and sick. We do our best to educate people but its an uphill climb; especially when it involves our own breed that we've worked so hard to produce good and healthy examples....to be ruined by backyard breeders (or unethical purebred breeders - like Nial mentioned).

I'm glad I am not the only one against some of the breeds - I don't like the munchkins either. While it might have been a mutation - it doesn't mean the mutation should be bred to create more. Cats are supposed to have longer legs to jump and run. IMO neither muchkins or doxies and others with extreme short legs should have been created. Doxies have so many back problems because of the way they are built. Munchkins will be next (with the back problems).
post #12 of 13
I would be upset over it too if people were mixing Somalis. Breeders work so hard to improve the breed and all it takes is one person to mess it up.
post #13 of 13
I would be very curious to see what a Munchkin/Bengal cross would look like. I do think it would greatly detract from the beauty of a Bengal, because half of the beauty of the Bengal is in the lithe body of the cat. They say a Munchkin is as healthy as any other cat, so I'm not going to talk against them. They're not my cup of tea, but I don't see why someone would try to create a Munchkin Bengal.

As far as Designer and EXTREME breeders, I'm totally against that, especially PERSIANS and what they've done to them. I had an extremely flat faced little Persian. His face was so flat, he couldn't enjoy wet food. He could only eat dry food. He tried to eat the wet, but his nose and mouth were so flat, he would almost drown trying to eat it. Persians originally had noses, and were beautiful just the way God made them. I don't know why breeders had to work until they created a totally peke faced Persian, where the cat looks grumpy and extremely jowely, and where they have breathing problems. It just doesn't make since to ruin a perfectly beautiful breed to fit some sort of standard. Same to some degree with Siamese. I do like the more modern wedge shaped Siamese, however they've gone to such an extreme that the Siamese they're breeding today look more like bats or Aliens than cats. Humans need to know when to STOP!
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