Hi everyone, color my babies please?

tam

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Hello all, I just got here today, have been looking high and low for some answers and hoping to find them here.

I posted my hello in the New Cats on the Block forum, but wanted to bring this here. A brief back story. Last year, I bought all of the cats I wanted to start my own cattery, I did deep research and so on, bought all the babies I wanted to breed with to start my Cattery, and I now have not one but FOUR litters, boy, I think I have a death wish. lol

Anyway, I have managed to control all but THIS litter and Little Miss Dilana is not one to be controlled, she clearly does as she pleases.


Can you guys and gals look at this pic and tell me what color you would call these two black and white looking ones? I was trying to make sure Mom was with my Red and White Male Persian, she is a Tortie Persian, but I am thinking that he isn't the Dad at all, I am not sure with her. I have never seen cats this color I don't think, at least not in MY house. lol



And this is Mom, Dilana - not exactly liking the camers, she is her own kitty. lol
 

kluchetta

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Wow - Mom is GORGEOUS!!
I'm not a breeder, but I think I've seen kittens that are termed "smoke" looking like that. I hope someone more knowledgeable comes along, but I wanted to say how pretty she is!
 
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tam

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Originally Posted by kluchetta

Wow - Mom is GORGEOUS!!
I'm not a breeder, but I think I've seen kittens that are termed "smoke" looking like that. I hope someone more knowledgeable comes along, but I wanted to say how pretty she is!
I got so very lucky and landed her at such a sweet deal, and her little face just floored me. Her background I just found out is from Asia, her grandparents were imported. I got her and three others from the same lady and I tell you what, once I got past the fact that they hadn't been handled much, they are the best,most sweet natured cats I have ever seen. My oldest daughter got me my first two for my Birthday 2 years ago and I have been hooked on these cats since, bordeline obsessive. lol

I thought they might be Smokes, but I wasn't sure, and I know it will take a little while until they come into their colors good, but I have a strong feeling I won't want to let those two go when it comes time. That's always the hardest part.

I have two now that are ready to go and decided to keep one of them to replace the male I just gave to my son..... always some excuse to keep them, right? lol
 

kluchetta

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I hear that breeders always like to get females in the litter. How many & which are males/females? Persians are very sweet, aren't they?
 
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tam

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Originally Posted by kluchetta

I hear that breeders always like to get females in the litter. How many & which are males/females? Persians are very sweet, aren't they?
I can't really tell in this litter yet, it looks like 2 of each, but they are so little, I could be wrong. They aren't exactly the brightest in the world when it comes to having babies though. I have had to help two of mine with each litter they have had. Dilana is having a tough time knowing what to do so we have to sit with her a lot to help her nurse her babies. She is getting it though.. she has always had a mind of her own, do what she wants to, kind of cat. and this is no different. She literally ran from them for the first couple of hours, like they were going to eat her. lmao
 

jen

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awww how old is mom? I know persians don't usually mature fully until much later, thats why they aren't bred until they are older I believe, but I am no expert, nor a breeder
She is beautiful though.
 

sandtigress

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I'm not trying to lecture you, so I apologize if it comes out that way.


Have you thought about getting a breeder mentor? I think many times its the person you buy the cats from originally - but basically someone who would help you in starting out your cattery, and also be able to help you with colors and such, right there in person. It can be difficult sometimes to tell colors and what-not from across the internet, things like lighting and the age of the kittens can make colors seem different than they really are.

The people here, of course, are incredibly wonderful and helpful, but sometimes its nice to have a person in person, so to speak.

But welcome, and I hope that you're going to post many more pictures of those beautiful kitties!
 
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tam

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The mom is 15 months old, I didn't want to breed them the first time they went into heat. All of my cats get bred no sooner than second and most cases the third time around with that.

I do have a mentor of sorts, she is my Himalayan Breeder and there is a girl at CFA that helps me, but I hadn't heard back from them yet and this was bugging me.... LOL There is no one here locally to me that doesn't have to make a little drive to get here, so until I hear back from them, I just was curious. I had never seen kittens born this color.

I have loads and loads of pics that I can post, if you are all interested. I love taking pics of them and charting their growth, capturing everything about them.
 

sol

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I'd say you have two black smoke boys (yes, the black ones have to be boys if the father is red) and two red smoke babies, but since none of the parents are smoke tha kittens shouldn't be able to be smoke so maybe it's a case of "fever coats".

If it's fever coats you have two black ones and two red ones.
 

goldenkitty45

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You are correct Sol - unless she has at least ONE smoke parent, then the kittens have to be black males and either red males OR females if the father is a red and white.

What colors are the parents (on paper?) and what colors are all your persian adults?

Are you keeping more then one male in the same room? Or did you just have her and the red/white male together and she had no other matings with any other male? How many males and female adults do you have?
 
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tam

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Originally Posted by GoldenKitty45

You are correct Sol - unless she has at least ONE smoke parent, then the kittens have to be black males and either red males OR females if the father is a red and white.

What colors are the parents (on paper?) and what colors are all your persian adults?

Are you keeping more then one male in the same room? Or did you just have her and the red/white male together and she had no other matings with any other male? How many males and female adults do you have?
I have several cats, but when it comes time to breeding, I put the two I want to breed off by themselves in a room where no other cats have access to. With Dilana, I don't know if I didn't catch her in time, or it was quite possibly when I left one night and one of my kids had gone in that room for an extra blanket and had let my Blue Point Himalayan in there with her and they didn't know it. I found him in there when I got home, sleeping in Dilana's bed.

With all of the other females I have 4 that are breeding age total, I have managed to control the breeding, but this one, we had an accident possibly. It's hard to say how long he was in the room, and he was sleeping when I found him in there. If he fathered this litter, would I have those colors?

I read this fever thing, and it doesn't seem to fit these cats as near as I can tell. They are the least stressed cats I have ever seen, she is a little weird and a loner, but we work very hard to make sure they aren't under one bit of distress.. and her delivery went fine, average issues with first time Persian Moms, but nothing out of the ordinary if I understand that article right. They are healthy and normal with this, right? THIS areais new to me, I have always, like I said, been able to control the breeding. I am here 95% of the time so they are never alone and are never in kennels. Should I be worried?

I am so sorry to go on, I just worry if there is even a sign of something not right with my cats.
 

goldenkitty45

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If you have all males, then either father could be the right one. If the red ones are female (or at least one is) then the red/white is the father.

Do you have ANY cats that are smoke - what does your pedigrees say their color is?
 
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tam

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Originally Posted by GoldenKitty45

If you have all males, then either father could be the right one. If the red ones are female (or at least one is) then the red/white is the father.

Do you have ANY cats that are smoke - what does your pedigrees say their color is?
No, no Smokes that I can find, so I guess it might be this Fever thing, hmm.

I dug out all of the parents papers and this is what I am seeing:
The Female is a Tortie Persian, that's what her papers say.
The one I THOUGHT was their Dad is a Red and White Persian, that's what his papers say on them.
The one that COULD have gotten her, his papers say he is a Blue Point Himalayan Male.

I don't see Smoke anywhere on any of the papers I have on any of the possible dads, and not on the Mom's papers.

I appreciate your help on this. I am still on upstart, and this isn't my first time breeding, but this is the first time I have run into this. I am no genius by no means. lol
 
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tam

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You seen the babies and the Mom, and now here is a pic of the possible Dads. The very top is Styles, the little snake that snuck into her bed while we weren't looking. The one to the right is the Red and White that I THOUGHT was the only Dad possible.

The Black and White is Dilana's Brother, from the same litter. The Cream one isn't a possibility, he is no longer with us and wasn't at the time this all happened.
 
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tam

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Ok, it appears, the nearest I can tell with them so little, that all 4 of them are males. There is one of the black and white looking ones that I am not 100% sure about, but the other 3 I am pretty sure on.
 

sandtigress

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I just want to say that that is a precious group of boys you have there!
And I'm glad you have a mentor, I'm sure they make things a lot easier!
 
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tam

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Originally Posted by Sandtigress

I just want to say that that is a precious group of boys you have there!
And I'm glad you have a mentor, I'm sure they make things a lot easier!
Well thank you very much, they will be happy to hear this.


Seriously though, she is awesome, and I wouldn't even be doing this if not for her. She didn't need to do much talking to get me involved, but she did and has helped me so tremendously. She is just away for some family stuff now and will be gone for a few days. Why are they always out when we need them? LOL


I am extremely proud of all of my cats, and I have plenty of them, if they could ever prove I was insane, they would surely call me that crazy cat lady. lol

I am still learning and I imagine I will always be that way, but I love the process.
 

goldenkitty45

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Ok since there are no smokes, then the little "smoke" kittens just have a fever coat - it will shed out and become more black. IMO the only way to tell which is the true father is on the head type of the kittens as they get older.

The mom and the red/white male both have pretty good extreme faces - the himalayan has a longer nose (not short like the red/white). So if the kittens all have the short nose then the red/white is the father of them all.

I would hold off registering/showing any of them till you figure out who the father is. Since mom is a tortie, and they are all male kittens, SHE's the one that gave them their colors
 

sandtigress

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GK, is genetic parental testing done often in cats? Could that be an option here, so that it could be sure which one was the father?
 
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