Multiple breeds under one roof

miyu

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Originally Posted by Kai Bengals

There are some problems with your theory. But the main one is whole males will NOT get along with each other for long in the same household. They must be seperated from each other. Serious fights will occur.
So, having the males together with a partner breeder won't work. The males must be in seperate areas.
And let's not forget that unaltered males spray. Given run of the house they will hose the whole house down.
Keeping them in seperate rooms, gives them security and a "territory", which cuts down the need to spray tremedously.

The key to keeping happy males is giving them the attention they deserve and retiring them early to live out a happy pet life. But, they are not to roam amongst the females.

I have a cattery, my males all have their own rooms. They are big rooms, with room to run. They are very content and I have never had an accidental breeding in 10 years I've been doing this.

The way to feel that a breeder is trustworthy, is to visit their cattery and make your own mind up from there.
Well that is what my roommate say’s, and she too has been breeding for 10 years. The basement is for her and the cats, males have one room for 3 males and females run the home, but also have one room for kittens. They don’t spray or fight with each other, they all cuddle together all the time. The only fights I ever see are females against males, because they have kittens. Which to me is another reason males and females should not be in the same house. The only smell I sent when I go down there is if the letterboxes are not changed or she has the old litter in a bag but hasn’t taken it out. So I always grab the bag and toss it out the door. I have never had problems or seen a problem with males and fighting and spraying. But I have heard about it lots, I guess it could be the type of cat or temperament of the cat. Maybe a stressed out cat or environment. Who knows but I have never experienced it.

If you have a whole house with only 3 males and if you have to separate the males from each other each getting their own room. Vs. Having a home with 3 males and 3 females, you can give them the attention they need so they can be happy. But attending to females with kittens, is full time work, and I can’t help but to think that the males would be forgotten in a room if they were never let out.

You say your cats are always separated from each other, and I believe that would be a good way of breeding, but most houses are only 3 bedrooms. And that doesn’t always happen, but I have never met you who knows you could be an exception.
 

celestialrags

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I am not going to get into the last few posts
But I just wanted to say that I personally couldn't work with 2 or more breeds, nor do I have any desire to. I have chosen Ragdolls for a reason and intend to stay with just them. I do like particular breeds and intend to have one or more of them some day (like a cornish rex) but they would be altered pets. I can't keep up hardly with what changes are being made and ect with just one breed, I would be in over my head trying to learn all I can about 2 or 3 breeds! I do think if some one has the room and set up ect, they could probley handle 2 breeds, but I can't!!!!
 

kai bengals

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Originally Posted by Miyu

You say your cats are always separated from each other, and I believe that would be a good way of breeding, but most houses are only 3 bedrooms. And that doesnâ€[emoji]8482[/emoji]t always happen, but I have never met you who knows you could be an exception.
As I mentioned I have a cattery. A cattery is a seperate building, it's 1400 sq feet. My boys are in the cattery. They have the 2nd floor, there are 4 rooms. Unless they are being bred there are no females upstairs.
The lower floor is for some of the females and there are 3 birthing/kitten rooms.

Every breeder does what works for them. I have my own style, my own ideas on what works best for the cats and second, what works best for me. My cats comfort comes first, but I have to be practical about it as well.

Your roomate's situation would not work for me. Un-neutered bengal males will rarely tolerate each other unless they have grown up as kittens together and even then they can get into it. Having the males roam around females with infant kittens is really not a good idea. The females may actually injure the males to protect their kittens.
Sounds like your roomate's situation is a ticking time bomb.
 

familytimerags

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Originally Posted by celestialrags

I am not going to get into the last few posts
But I just wanted to say that I personally couldn't work with 2 or more breeds, nor do I have any desire to. I have chosen Ragdolls for a reason and intend to stay with just them. I do like particular breeds and intend to have one or more of them some day (like a cornish rex) but they would be altered pets. I can't keep up hardly with what changes are being made and ect with just one breed, I would be in over my head trying to learn all I can about 2 or 3 breeds! I do think if some one has the room and set up ect, they could probley handle 2 breeds, but I can't!!!!
How odd, both of us chose Ragdolls, but love the looks of the Rex, I personally love the Devon, and I love the white ones. I love many breeds, and may some day own a different breed as a pet, but I am like you, there is enough information on Ragdolls to keep up with, so I will stick with my chosen breed. I also will retire breeders, that I may want to keep as a pet, and helping with RR, I have enough on my plate. Have your buccal swabs made it in the mail? We have ours in, so time to prepare for samples.

I think someone can handle 2 breeds, especially ones that are allowed outcrosses, and that makes sense to me. I just feel one should be as knowledgable about the health, genetics, pedigrees, type, ect, of the chosen breed, and keeping up with more than 2, I would think that one breed may suffer, without trying, just because of the focus one needs for just one breed. Bellyrubs to Icey and Dante'!
 

urbantigers

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I'd be very wary of a breeder who was actively breeding more than one breed. Two is possible, I think, especially if the breeder had bred one breed for a long time and had recently become interested in a 2nd breed or if both members of a couple concentrated on one breed each. But I would still be wary and would prefer to buy a cat from a breeder who was concentrating on just the one breed. But any more than that and alarm bells would ring for me. I don't see how anyone can concentrate properly on 3+ breeds and it screams backyard breeder to me.

When I become a breeder it will only be one breed (and if I change my mind it would be a case of switching from one breed to another rather than breeding both) and I doubt very much I'll ever have a stud cat - can't see having appropriate accommodation or enough queens to keep him happy
 

miyu

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Your roomate's situation would not work for me. Un-neutered bengal males will rarely tolerate each other unless they have grown up as kittens together and even then they can get into it. Having the males roam around females with infant kittens is really not a good idea. The females may actually injure the males to protect their kittens.
Sounds like your roomate's situation is a ticking time bomb.
yes I AGREE! lol I try to tell her I don't think its right, bluh bluh, but I just waist my breath, but because she only has like 6 cats, I am quite impressed witht that. She keeps she numbers down, and that is probably the only thing she does that is good, and I swear she couldnâ€[emoji]8482[/emoji]t do it with out me always helping her. I have seen some really really sh***y breeders and she is ok. Not great, but ok. And she knows she needs to do this she needs to do this, but she never does it. GRRRR!!!!!

Sorry... I get quite emotional about this stuff.
 

familytimerags

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Originally Posted by Miyu

yes I AGREE! lol I try to tell her I don't think its right, bluh bluh, but I just waist my breath, but because she only has like 6 cats, I am quite impressed witht that. She keeps she numbers down, and that is probably the only thing she does that is good, and I swear she couldnâ€[emoji]8482[/emoji]t do it with out me always helping her. I have seen some really really sh***y breeders and she is ok. Not great, but ok. And she knows she needs to do this she needs to do this, but she never does it. GRRRR!!!!!

Sorry... I get quite emotional about this stuff.
I understand about getting emotional, it seems you are passionate about all cats.

For what it is worth, I just wanted to say, I do have my males together, and I am not going to say it has anything to do with their breed, as it doesn't, I think more or less just luck, but our 2 boys, get along together, they have their own large room, with lots of large cat trees, their essentials and toys, and we treat them as pets, with lots of love and attention. They get along, clean each other, and even sleep together. As I say, though, I know I have the exception, as they dont spray either. How lucky is that

It is great that this breeder has you to help out, I know I for one, am always learning, and learning from mistakes, so over time, as your friend breeds longer, she may change the way she does things, as she learns better ways, and hopefully by better, we don't mean cheaper.

I did want to say that in rare occasions whole males can not only tolerate each other, but enjoy each other.
 

miyu

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Thanks, yeah sometimes I over react too, and Iâ€[emoji]8482[/emoji]m always catching myself. I guess I have lots to improve on. Like learning how to talk to people properly, with out being so emotional. like today I woke up in a bad mood and stormed downstairs and freaked out at her for not getting her cats their shots or cleaning them in a month. I have seen her get really messy and the cats suffer and I was thinking if she canâ€[emoji]8482[/emoji]t keep up with them then they have to go. She asked me what my problem was, and I said NOTHING and stormed upstairs. Then I sat there and though I really didnâ€[emoji]8482[/emoji]t have to freak out at her as soon as she came up stairs I said I was so sorry for freaking out at her, I just didnâ€[emoji]8482[/emoji]t want her saying she is going to do something and then not following through with it. Right after she made appointments with the vet and cleaned up the cats and the rooms, as they were starting to smell. But its better now.

Like Kai bangles said I feel like my roomies cats are a ticking time bomb and Iâ€[emoji]8482[/emoji]m just waiting for it to go off. That is why I help her so much, I donâ€[emoji]8482[/emoji]t want anything bad to happen. I have seen it; so I know what to look for. I also like that they are in the house and interact with us, which I believe gives great personalities.

If more breeders were like you, and ALWAYS keep males separated from females. Then I donâ€[emoji]8482[/emoji]t see why you couldnâ€[emoji]8482[/emoji]t have 2 breeds and do just as good preserving it and creating Grand Champions as you would with only dedicating yourself to one breed. But more then 2, I wouldnâ€[emoji]8482[/emoji]t trust it at all. My roommate on the other hand and every Real life breeder I have ever met, have enough trouble with just one breed so getting back on topic I think it CAN be done, but the % of people who can do it is VERY low. And I would be very aware and not support it unless I was sure. Itâ€[emoji]8482[/emoji]s not worth it if you even think you might get lazy. and any breeder that is lazy it shows. Thatâ€[emoji]8482[/emoji]s the number one reason I could never breed.

I can help my roommate, but its not my responsibility. If it was, I just would get so stressed out and lose it completely. My husband is also against breeding because of the cat overpopulation problem across Canada. But I try to teach him that not all breeders are bad. and that breeders are far better than just someone who picks up a cat for 5 bucks and lets it breed. And all the good stuff a good breeder provides. But he still doesnâ€[emoji]8482[/emoji]t fully agree. Doesnâ€[emoji]8482[/emoji]t it feel like a never-ending battle?
 

kai bengals

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Originally Posted by Miyu

Doesnâ€[emoji]8482[/emoji]t it feel like a never-ending battle?
I may be taking your comment out of context, if so please correct me.

For those of us who love a breed of cat and choose to breed them, it's not a battle. We do it for the enjoyment it brings. Very few of us turn a profit, with most spending far more than we take in.

So why do we do it? Because it's fun and the rewards outweigh the hard work involved.

It's never a battle for me. A challenge perhaps, but definitely an enjoyable one.
 

miyu

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No I mean teaching people about proper breeding. Respecting proper breeder, not supporting Back yard breeding and over population.
 

sol

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I wouldn't have fertile cats of different breeds in my home (all my cats live indoors with me). First of all I have my hands full breeding one breed well. Two might be possible, but for me that would be to much. Second, I'm completely inlove with my breed so I'm not interested in breeding another breed. Third, the risk for cross breeding would be to big. I have cats that open doors so I have to have doors locked here and still the fast little buggers manage to slip through when I open the doors. I make sure I don't have any cats that absolutely shouldn't breed with each other in my home.
 

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Originally Posted by FamilytimeRags

It depends on which orginazation. There are many breeds allowed for the Ragamuffin, and I do believe in Ragdoll is accepted. A lot of contraversy on Ragdolls and Ragamuffins. I will go some into it, but there are very much 2 sides of the coin, and I do feel it would bring up a very touchy subject for some. I also am not sure if I am completly correct, we do/did have a Ragamuffin breeder, the founder of the Ragamuffin breed, on here, you may can read his past posts, however, if I am wrong on the something, I am sure he can correct me.


I do agree, as I said, there are breeds that do have allowable outcrossing, and for those, I can see a person with more than one breed.

As far as Ragdolls/Ragamuffins, I think I can fairly say, the originated the same way, however Ragdolls broke away in the 70's to pursue the cat fancy. Ragdolls are a young breed, however, at least in TICA and CFA we do not have allowable outcrossing. Ragamuffins have gained championship status in ACFA, and have many allowable outcrosses, and have brought many other breeds and are trying to create a look different from the Ragdoll. Ragdoll is accepted as pointed blue eyed breed, however, in TICA, we do have SBT status Mink and Non-pointed (non-blue eyed) that are being bred, that are not accepted in championship status in ragdolls, and as of a year or two ago, was confirmed traced back to a Ragamuffin. The solids or non-pointed Ragdolls, is also contraversial within the breed group as to when the non-pointed was introduced into the breed, and most Ragdoll breeders have voted, as have I, to not allow the advancement of the Mink and Non-pointed Ragdolls, and to keep them a blue eyed breed only.
Ragamuffins, do have both the pointed, mink, and non-pointed with or without white, and the pattern of white for show is not important. The white can be placed anywhere when showing a Ragamuffin in ACFA.
Pointed Ragdolls do have points counted for white placement on the mitted and bicolor varieties, when shown in CFA, TICA, or ACFA for points and titles.
I believe the last I heard there was roughly 50 breeders worldwide who breed the non-pointed and mink variety Ragdolls, but that number may have increased. Typically, the price is higher as they are called "rare Ragdolls", and are papered, but there is a known outcross in the pedigree to a Ragamuffin, but in most cases it has been worked through and is SBT status and in some cases several generation SBT status in TICA.

A Ragamuffin breeder, I believe say their cats were IRCA Ragdolls, and they broke away from Ann Baker much later than those who went the cat fancy route. I "think" 1994, is when the Ragamuffin originated, but I am not positive. So far they have not been able to advance in TICA, but they may be AOV in CFA?? Sorry, I did try to keep up with it some. I mainly know TICA, and even then it is for Ragdolls. I know for Ragdolls, that CFA allows the bicolor and van for championship status, and the mitted and colorpoint are AOV. I am not completely sure of where the Ragamuffins are at in CFA.

I think the Ragamuffins are most likely in the stages of being accepted. Just like the mitted Ragdolls are proving they appear different in type than the Birman. I think that the Ragamuffin will have to prove over time that it is different than the Ragdoll. I think a lot of the hang up, that the Ragamuffins are keeping the pointed variety, but this is my speculation.

I also believe it has been asked for Ragdolls and Ragamuffins to go under the same umbrella year ago, such as the Persian and Himalayan, but there was resistance from both sides.

This is what I think I know, but I may not know much.
Sabina just wanted to pop in to say she cannot believe any organization would not recognize her minky 'Muffin self.



Sabina's breeder breeds Ragdolls and RagaMuffins. Ragdolls are an accepted outcross for RagaMuffins until 2010 I believe. I also think (and I could be wrong) that 2006 was the end of Persians being an accepted outcross for 'Muffins.

When I was looking at breeders, I eliminated those who bred more than these two breeds, or bred dogs and cats. That was just my personal bias.
 
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