Originally Posted by GoldenKitty45
Are Ragdolls a legit outcross for Ragamuffins? Were they not created from the Ragdolls originally? If so, I can see using the breeds in outcrosses, etc.
Same for the Persian/Himi's - they are all one breed now, so its logical to use both in the breeding program. Same with Siamese/Oriental.
And some of the Ocicat breeders will have one or two Abys as outcrosses in their programs (at least till 2010 - then NO more outcrosses are allowed in the Ocicat breed).
It depends on which orginazation. There are many breeds allowed for the Ragamuffin, and I do believe in Ragdoll is accepted. A lot of contraversy on Ragdolls and Ragamuffins. I will go some into it, but there are very much 2 sides of the coin, and I do feel it would bring up a very touchy subject for some. I also am not sure if I am completly correct, we do/did have a Ragamuffin breeder, the founder of the Ragamuffin breed, on here, you may can read his past posts, however, if I am wrong on the something, I am sure he can correct me.
I do agree, as I said, there are breeds that do have allowable outcrossing, and for those, I can see a person with more than one breed.
As far as Ragdolls/Ragamuffins, I think I can fairly say, the originated the same way, however Ragdolls broke away in the 70's to pursue the cat fancy. Ragdolls are a young breed, however, at least in TICA and CFA we do not have allowable outcrossing. Ragamuffins have gained championship status in ACFA, and have many allowable outcrosses, and have brought many other breeds and are trying to create a look different from the Ragdoll. Ragdoll is accepted as pointed blue eyed breed, however, in TICA, we do have SBT status Mink and Non-pointed (non-blue eyed) that are being bred, that are not accepted in championship status in ragdolls, and as of a year or two ago, was confirmed traced back to a Ragamuffin. The solids or non-pointed Ragdolls, is also contraversial within the breed group as to when the non-pointed was introduced into the breed, and most Ragdoll breeders have voted, as have I, to not allow the advancement of the Mink and Non-pointed Ragdolls, and to keep them a blue eyed breed only.
Ragamuffins, do have both the pointed, mink, and non-pointed with or without white, and the pattern of white for show is not important. The white can be placed anywhere when showing a Ragamuffin in ACFA.
Pointed Ragdolls do have points counted for white placement on the mitted and bicolor varieties, when shown in CFA, TICA, or ACFA for points and titles.
I believe the last I heard there was roughly 50 breeders worldwide who breed the non-pointed and mink variety Ragdolls, but that number may have increased. Typically, the price is higher as they are called "rare Ragdolls", and are papered, but there is a known outcross in the pedigree to a Ragamuffin, but in most cases it has been worked through and is SBT status and in some cases several generation SBT status in TICA.
A Ragamuffin breeder, I believe say their cats were IRCA Ragdolls, and they broke away from Ann Baker much later than those who went the cat fancy route. I "think" 1994, is when the Ragamuffin originated, but I am not positive. So far they have not been able to advance in TICA, but they may be AOV in CFA?? Sorry, I did try to keep up with it some. I mainly know TICA, and even then it is for Ragdolls. I know for Ragdolls, that CFA allows the bicolor and van for championship status, and the mitted and colorpoint are AOV. I am not completely sure of where the Ragamuffins are at in CFA.
I think the Ragamuffins are most likely in the stages of being accepted. Just like the mitted Ragdolls are proving they appear different in type than the Birman. I think that the Ragamuffin will have to prove over time that it is different than the Ragdoll. I think a lot of the hang up, that the Ragamuffins are keeping the pointed variety, but this is my speculation.
I also believe it has been asked for Ragdolls and Ragamuffins to go under the same umbrella year ago, such as the Persian and Himalayan, but there was resistance from both sides.
This is what I think I know, but I may not know much.