Spanish

Originally Posted by RubSluts'Mommy

Okay, yes... I generalized, which is bad for debating... not everyone back then... but thinking of percentages, a very large number of them back then did learn some English. There are always exceptions. It's just nowadays it seems there's more 'entitlement' going on... which I take issue with...

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I don't think I made my point very clearly, then. I don't just mean that there have always been immigrants who don't speak English. I mean the situation with German was exactly the same as it is now with Spanish and Hispanic immigrants. There was violent backlash against them, laws were passed banning education in 9 million people's first language, they published newspapers in German, signs in some areas were in both English and German, the same thing that is happening now. http://www.ohiohistorycentral.org/entry.php?rec=592 http://www.ulib.iupui.edu/KADE/adams/chap7.html

I'm the only member of my family not to speak any Spanish as my Da grew up in san Diego

Originally Posted by Zissou'sMom

I don't think I made my point very clearly, then. I don't just mean that there have always been immigrants who don't speak English. I mean the situation with German was exactly the same as it is now with Spanish and Hispanic immigrants. There was violent backlash against them, laws were passed banning education in 9 million people's first language, they published newspapers in German, signs in some areas were in both English and German, the same thing that is happening now. http://www.ohiohistorycentral.org/entry.php?rec=592 http://www.ulib.iupui.edu/KADE/adams/chap7.html

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I meant a large number of immigrants... not just those of German descent. I do understand what you're referring to, really. What I'm reading from the links you sent is this: the violent backlash inflicted upon the Germans back then wasn't so much about learning English, but about WWI and WWII (eventually) and the stigma attached to speaking German... hysteria/paranoia of the non-German speakers here in the US. Last I checked, we're not 'at war' with Spanish-speakers...

I'm fine with the newspapers and such... smaller press papers for all languages, but in dealing with day to day life: driving cars, shopping in mainstream stores, etc... English is dominant. Would you want your street signs (caution: men at work, etc) bilingual? It'll be more confusing for everyone... not to mention the safety concerns. People (speaking all languages, mind you) seem to have difficulty reading the signs in JUST English... you put two languages up there? All h*** will break loose.

When I'm dealing with someone at my store who doesn't speak any English, it's very difficult... I'm in a fabric store... it's very hands-on... they HAVE to interact with us, to get fabric/notions cut, cashing out, etc... Now, I also get many, MANY customers who are from Eastern Europe countries (don't ask me which ones... I really have no clue), and many of them don't speak any English either. It's awkward and frustrating as a retail clerk to try assisting anyone who doesn't speak any English.

If someone gave me the excuse of not having the money to take classes, I'll tell them that's B***. There are community colleges that offer classes for decent rates. I used to tutor students in two of those very schools. There are options out there, if you make the effort. If you have enough money to buy all that fabric, you have enough money to take classes.

I'm gonna stop now... just like over in IMO... if i get too feisty, I have to back off, or I'll type things I KNOW I'll regret.

Originally Posted by CoolCat

It could be write like this:
I vislumbro que este post será movido a IMO pronto!...

( Happy nita?

...)

I hope some day exist a Spanish thread or forum here

....

I have english as my 2 language as you can see!

...

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¿Entonces, eres listo?
Soy de Chile, pero hace muchos años.
¡Así, hable conmigo arora misma solamente en español! Pero primero, es necesario tener á, é, í, ñ, ó, ú, ü, ¿, ¡, y — puesto tu computadora. Aquí está.
http://spanish.typeit.org/

Since you are our resident in México, I nominate you to head the thread. The link above will allow everybody to communicate in Spanish if you do not have Spanish fonts installed on your computer. Simply type in what you want to say, and copy it over here. We tried this once before but people said it does not matter if you use the correct characters. What would the point be in practicing your Spanish if you did not use the correct characters؟ The link above allows you an easy way if you do not have Spanish fonts installed on your computer. There are several languages installed on this computer, since my wife speaks many languages. Here is her native language: ]ب غخع شقث سئشقف غخع زشد سهئحمغ فخ ش زاشدلث خب بخدفس شدي قثشي فاهس شس ] اخحث فاشف غخع يخ دخف ثطحثزف ئث فخ ذث شذمث فخ قثشي فاهس If you guessed this was Persian, you are correct. Now you know why I have a Persian cat.

It is frustrating when you can't understand customers, and I deal with people from all over the place-- mainly international students. They must have passed an English language test to be here, but we still have a very hard time communicating. But that's a fact of life, people speak lots of different languages, and America is one of the last places to hold out trying to be monolingual. People always argue that other countries have official languages, and this is true, most of them do have official languages not just one. They get along just fine with signs in all kinds of languages, and we used to get along just fine with our shampoo bottles in French, English, and Spanish.

The only reason people are so concerned about Spanish now is that it has become entangled with the illegal immigration debate, which is a separate issue. Puerto Rico is part of the United States, and far far from all Spanish speakers are even immigrants, let alone illegal ones. Most people want their children to learn English, they just have a hard time themselves. Add to that the way which some people react when they DO try to speak English but don't quite get it right. I've seen people speak perfectly understandable sentence, and the people they're speaking to pretend they can't understand and walk away muttering about how they should learn English.

Originally Posted by Zissou'sMom

It is frustrating when you can't understand customers, and I deal with people from all over the place-- mainly international students. They must have passed an English language test to be here, but we still have a very hard time communicating. But that's a fact of life, people speak lots of different languages, and America is one of the last places to hold out trying to be monolingual. People always argue that other countries have official languages, and this is true, most of them do have official languages not just one. They get along just fine with signs in all kinds of languages, and we used to get along just fine with our shampoo bottles in French, English, and Spanish.

The only reason people are so concerned about Spanish now is that it has become entangled with the illegal immigration debate, which is a separate issue. Puerto Rico is part of the United States, and far far from all Spanish speakers are even immigrants, let alone illegal ones. Most people want their children to learn English, they just have a hard time themselves. Add to that the way which some people react when they DO try to speak English but don't quite get it right. I've seen people speak perfectly understandable sentence, and the people they're speaking to pretend they can't understand and walk away muttering about how they should learn English.

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How many times have you seen a native speaker of ANY other language speaking in English on TV and the TV puts subtitles on the screen when anybody that is listening can tell what the person is saying? How demeaning is THIS?

Originally Posted by Persi & Alley

How many times have you seen a native speaker of ANY other language speaking in English on TV and the TV puts subtitles on the screen when anybody that is listening can tell what the person is saying? How demeaning is THIS?

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Who can tell

Haven't read through all the posts here yet.
Just wanted to say that we are very spoiled in the USA. In most other countries, it is common to know two languages at least. I know a woman from Iceland who speaks four routinely.
Here, we demand that others do as we want and get all kinds of upset when they don't want to. Perhaps someday the US will join the rest of the world.

This isn't in IMO yet?

WOW....you guys are getting fiesty!!!

I just moved back to Jacksonville, Florida after living in Miami for 30 years!!! Now, do you want to hear about bi-lingual????

Originally Posted by Persi & Alley

How many times have you seen a native speaker of ANY other language speaking in English on TV and the TV puts subtitles on the screen when anybody that is listening can tell what the person is saying? How demeaning is THIS?

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I agree. Why subtitle when they can be understood? I speak with people on the phone every day who I can barely understand and they are all native english speakers. Often, I can understand a ESL speaker more easily because they try harder.

Really, though the debate has always been about conformity.

Way back, if you were not english and white, you were lesser than. It has only continued. Those who were eventually accepted into the "melting pot" were those who assimilated. Germans, Irish, African, Italian, Native American, etc. Not that the assimilation is near complete.

I am glad to see the south of the border people hanging onto their heritage - language is a huge part of culture. Ask any Native American tribe whose language is down to its last few speakers how valuable it is.

We have billboards, signs on store doors, and some commercials in Spanish here. I've never really given it much thought, it's a part of life where I live and not something to get upset about.

Originally Posted by Bonnie1965

Just wanted to say that we are very spoiled in the USA. In most other countries, it is common to know two languages at least. I know a woman from Iceland who speaks four routinely.
Here, we demand that others do as we want and get all kinds of upset when they don't want to. Perhaps someday the US will join the rest of the world.

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We are spoiled. Schools should push students to start learning another language early on. I'm actually rather embarrassed sometimes, I have several friends I chat with online and all of them know at least 3 or 4 languages, one just signed up for more classes this morning to learn a couple more - including Mongolian.

I was in Texas once and I almost thought I was in a different country! Almost EVERYONE was speaking Spanish NOT English. I can pick out a few words here and there - but not enough to really hold a conversation.

Still say that if you are gonna spend your life here, then learn how to speak, read, and write English. Not saying you should abandon your native language - its better to keep it fresh, but in everyday life in the work place or shopping - ENGLISH is spoken here!

Originally Posted by arie85

I was just wondering, what is your approach regarding the fact that everywhere you go in this country, or every institute you're calling to, every time you do this you handle your conversation either with English (default) or Spanish. Do you think it's okay that Spanish has become the 2nd language here?

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I just speak Spanish back in the situation . I learned it in high school then traveled abroad a bit to help. I find that people "assume" I don't know it, but I like that since I can learn more about what they really think when they don't think I know Spanish and can't understand what they are saying.

Based upon the US census numbers every year of legal citizens, by the year 2030 the Hispanic population will be the new majority population. So people that are not okay with the changes taking place in the US will have a real shocker soon. I am comfortable with going from a majority to a minority of sorts, although I know it will cause a lot of changes that I can't even predict now.

Most other countries have their children learn and speak many languages. Most of the people from other countries I know speak at least 3 languages. I find most Americans only know one language and expect everyone to use that.

It's true that immigrants will have an easier time of it if they learn the language of the country they choose to live in. But here in Texas, anyway, many of the Spanish-speaking immigrants arrive with nothing to their names but a willingness to work -- no money for education of any kind. So they get jobs bussing tables or setting out flats of pansies, where they associate almost exclusively with other Spanish-speaking immigrants, and they don't get the chance to develop their English skills.

If we want immigrants to speak English, if we want them to acquire the verbal skills to move up into better jobs and build safer, more comfortable lives for their families, then we need to make English-as-a-second-language classes and CDs readily available to them at no charge. It's an investment that would benefit us as much as them, an investment in overcoming poverty, reducing crime, and ultimately, streamlining communication throughout our society.

Some people think we should simply say, "Okay, English is now our 'official language,' and if you can't speak it, buddy, you're out of luck. Hasta la vista." What arrogance! What appalling arrogance, and how incredibly shortsighted! Thank goodness other countries don't swagger around with that "I'm so big I don't have to give a damn" attitude toward us -- because we Americans are notoriously monolingual.

Sheesh. Language is supposed to be about reaching out to one another... not covering our ears and saying "I don't heeear you, I don't heeear you." And that's just how narrow-minded and counter-productive this whole "official language" idea is.

(Okay, that oughta get it moved to IMO, huh? )

Originally Posted by CarolPetunia

Some people think we should simply say, "Okay, English is now our 'official language,' and if you can't speak it, buddy, you're out of luck. Hasta la vista." What arrogance! What appalling arrogance, and how incredibly shortsighted! Thank goodness other countries don't swagger around with that "I'm so big I don't have to give a damn" attitude toward us -- because we Americans are notoriously monolingual.

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Actually, I think English IS the official language in the United States and I think it should stay that way. I'm not saying we shouldn't learn more languages, and spanish is a good thing, but should it become an official language just because some people come into the US that speak spanish? Why don't we have 10+ official languages? We have other immigrants besides Mexicans.

Good point... although I don't think anyone is suggesting that Spanish should become an "official" language here. It's just used as a convenience in some situations because there's a high percentage of Spanish-speaking people in America. The same courtesy is provided in many countries where a lot of English-speakers live, too.

Obviously, there's no actual need to designate any "official language" in this country... nor would doing so eliminate the very real need to facilitate communication with Spanish speakers (and in some areas, speakers of other languages, too). It's just a manufactured controversy, a political device whose real purpose is simply to garner kneejerk votes from a certain segment of the population.

Originally Posted by Persi & Alley

¿Entonces, eres listo?
Soy de Chile, pero hace muchos años.
¡AsÃ:censor:, hable conmigo arora misma solamente en español! Pero primero, es necesario tener á, Ã[emoji]169[/emoji], Ã:censor:, ñ, ó, ú, ü, ¿, ¡, y — puesto tu computadora. AquÃ:censor: está.
http://spanish.typeit.org/

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Thank you for the nomation!
y será un gran placer, escribir en español cada vez que me lo requieras!

Send me a spanish PM if you want it friend!

Cheers!

Originally Posted by RubSluts'Mommy

Would you want your street signs (caution: men at work, etc) bilingual? It'll be more confusing for everyone... not to mention the safety concerns. People (speaking all languages, mind you) seem to have difficulty reading the signs in JUST English... you put two languages up there? All h*** will break loose.

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Here in Canada we've had bilingual signs for years and all h*** hasn't broken loose yet. I grew up in the Canadian maritimes and the road signs are all bilingual and have been for many, many years (I'm 60 and they were bilingual before I was born). In Toronto, the street signs are in English and then the language of that particular area, i.e., parts of Danforth avenue are mainly Greek so the street signs are English/Greek, in Chinatown the street signs are English/Chinese, Little Italy signs are English/Italian and so on. All h*** hasn't broken out there yet either and nobody seems confused, least of all us English speaking folk.

Originally Posted by Persi & Alley

¿Entonces, eres listo?
Soy de Chile, pero hace muchos años.
¡AsÃ:censor:, hable conmigo arora misma solamente en español! Pero primero, es necesario tener á, Ã[emoji]169[/emoji], Ã:censor:, ñ, ó, ú, ü, ¿, ¡, y — puesto tu computadora. AquÃ:censor: está.
http://spanish.typeit.org/

There are several languages installed on this computer, since my wife speaks many languages. Here is her native language: ]ب غخع شقث سئشقف غخع زشد سهئحمغ فخ ش زاشدلث خب بخدفس شدي قثشي فاهس شس ] اخحث فاشف غخع يخ دخف ثطحثزف ئث فخ ذث شذمث فخ قثشي فاهس If you guessed this was Persian, you are correct. Now you know why I have a Persian cat.

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I just learned something from you - I did not know there was actually a language called Persian. It's very pretty.

Originally Posted by strange_wings

We have billboards, signs on store doors, and some commercials in Spanish here. I've never really given it much thought, it's a part of life where I live and not something to get upset about.

We are spoiled. Schools should push students to start learning another language early on. I'm actually rather embarrassed sometimes, I have several friends I chat with online and all of them know at least 3 or 4 languages, one just signed up for more classes this morning to learn a couple more - including Mongolian.

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That's one of the things I'm so proud of being Canadian. We (generally) embrace other languages. Our daughter is fluent in English, French, Spanish and Italian and we have encouraged her in that. Typically Europeans speak at least 2 languages and often several more. I am so sorry I didn't learn languages when I was younger - they are so much easier to learn when one is young.

Originally Posted by GoldenKitty45

I was in Texas once and I almost thought I was in a different country! Almost EVERYONE was speaking Spanish NOT English. I can pick out a few words here and there - but not enough to really hold a conversation.

Still say that if you are gonna spend your life here, then learn how to speak, read, and write English. Not saying you should abandon your native language - its better to keep it fresh, but in everyday life in the work place or shopping - ENGLISH is spoken here!

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I'd like to hope that I would try to assist anyone in a work place or store, especially if they had difficulty with our very difficult language of English. If they made an effort to be understood the very least I could do would be to make an effort to understand. Learning a new language is very difficult for older people who often rely on their children to handle their affairs whether it be cable service or other affairs.

Originally Posted by Yosemite

Here in Canada we've had bilingual signs for years and all h*** hasn't broken loose yet. I grew up in the Canadian maritimes and the road signs are all bilingual and have been for many, many years (I'm 60 and they were bilingual before I was born). In Toronto, the street signs are in English and then the language of that particular area, i.e., parts of Danforth avenue are mainly Greek so the street signs are English/Greek, in Chinatown the street signs are English/Chinese, Little Italy signs are English/Italian and so on. All h*** hasn't broken out there yet either and nobody seems confused, least of all us English speaking folk.



I just learned something from you - I did not know there was actually a language called Persian. It's very pretty.



That's one of the things I'm so proud of being Canadian. We (generally) embrace other languages. Our daughter is fluent in English, French, Spanish and Italian and we have encouraged her in that. Typically Europeans speak at least 2 languages and often several more. I am so sorry I didn't learn languages when I was younger - they are so much easier to learn when one is young.



I'd like to hope that I would try to assist anyone in a work place or store, especially if they had difficulty with our very difficult language of English. If they made an effort to be understood the very least I could do would be to make an effort to understand. Learning a new language is very difficult for older people who often rely on their children to handle their affairs whether it be cable service or other affairs.

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I love all of the multicultural signs that are in Toronto - I think it makes for a very unique city and I wouldn't trade it for anything.

I speak with people on a daily basis. Most of the people I deal with often don't have English as their 1st, or even 2nd language. It can make communication difficult. But I find with patience then things can get cleared up. Or they at least understand enough that they get someone to translate for them.

I have always had difficult learning languages. For a person who took French lessons for most of my school life, I am suprisingly unfluent in French and that is disappointing to me. But unlike me, some people just have the knack to pick up languages.

To me, telling someone they can only speak my language is uncalled for - it would be like asking someone who is deaf to not use sign language, just because I can't understand it.