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Worm experts, please

post #1 of 14
Thread Starter 
Okay, having a small issue here with all the kitties... a couple are dragging their butts.. they're all vomiting (except Kahn).. not frequently, usually when they eat something.

It doesn't seem to be dietary, as some of the pukers are eating a combo of raw and dry. Some are eating dry only. Kahn is the only one that eats raw only, and he's not puking that I've seen (there was some raw vomited, but I'm not sure who it came from. I suspect it was Joyeux.)

Symptoms: dragging butts, vomiting which varies from dry food coming back up, yellow stomach bile.. kinda foamy, small amounts, hairballs, and someone puked the raw a few times. Pogue is also coughing and sneezing, with a hard belly. They're all extremely active. All eating and drinking normally, other than the symptoms. Pogue seems to have dry fur, like maybe a lack of proper nutrition. It has improved since he came to live here. Solid poop.

Vet says they looked for worms, we're taking him for a second fecal today, but I took samples from three litter boxes, not sure who they belonged to.

I can't think of anything else it could be... do tapeworms come from anything else besides fleas??? We have no fleas here but they looked for roundworms and hookworms at the vets and didn't see any. That leaves tapeworms but we have no flea problems here.

Any ideas? Maybe coccidia?

post #2 of 14
1) all it takes is one flea to be ingested for them to get tapeworms. it could have happened awhile ago. You or a dog could have brought one on. I would first deworm them for tapeworm and also for round and hook, if they don't have worms, it would be a good preventative. I wouldn't recommend doing it all the time. But hit them all up once and see if things change. A little diarrhea is normal after a deworming.

2) deworming for round and hook worms you can do yourself. You can use an OTC dewormer as long as the active ingredient is Pyrantal Pamoate. It will say that in ( ) underneath the product name. It is hard to find OTC tapeworm tabs with the right active ingredient so best to get them from the vet.

3) I, as well as my class and teacher have done fecals on cats that were pooping and vomitting worms and the fecals still came back clear. Sometimes they don't always work.
post #3 of 14
It would might be best to start thinking about things other than worms.

There are some protozoan organisms out there that can show similar signs.

How is the mom, is she doing okay?
post #4 of 14
One of my kittens had tapeworms... I just happened to see them coming out of his butt (Yuck!) She said that I was lucky to see it, since tape worms won't usually show up on a fecal sample. But, I don't think tape worms cause vomiting...I believe that is a sign of roundworms (but I think you're supposed to see the roundworms come up in the vomit). Vomiting and not eating and diarhea are signs of cociddia (sorry about the spelling), which is a protozoan infection. My vet did a fecal test for those on the kitten's first appointment. The vet used "drontol" pills to worm both kittens (when I spotted the tape worms), which she said would work as a wormer for round, hook, and tape worms, but the kittens have to be at least ~8 weeks old to use it.
BTW, they can get two kinds of tapeworms, one from eating an infected rodent, the other from eating an infected flea (most likely). The good news, is that the vet said that the ones they get from eating fleas can only be spread by you (or another kitten) eating an infected flea. They showed as small white squirming things coming out of the cat's butt, when they dried up / died, appeared to be yellowish grains of rice.

post #5 of 14
Thread Starter 
I haven't seen signs of worms in vomit, or in their poop which is solid. I've searched the vomit when I've cleaned it up, and broken the stools apart when I've scooped the box, but, not seen anything. There's no obvious signs like the little ricey worms coming out of the butt. Noel had that at one point a few years ago and we treated for tape worms then, but my cats don't go outside, and the only new factor is the kitten, who I got from a breeder that *says* she dewormed him twice. Now... he's always had the full tummy, hard even, but given that she supposedly wormed him before we picked up, I've always attributed it to the fact that he eats four times his body weight in food. He's been growing growing growing, and just figured he had a kitten's appetite.

He was born on St. Patrick's day, and he's a good weight. None of them are showing signs of lethargy, they're all eating normally (which is to say that they boycott or eat their food just like normal, with absolutely no explanation of their reasoning..but they've been doing this as long as we've had them, so it's normal for them.) Pogue (the kitten) had shots for his kittenhood, and I believe was treated for kennel cough, whose proper name currently escapes my memory... um.. bordatella?? I know it's a slightly different name for cats than it is for dogs, but the dog word is all I can think of right now.

There are no other animals here, besides the cats, and our townhouse community treats the lawns for fleas, so even when we had a dog, we've only had to treat once for fleas here, and that was years ago, and it was after we got her and she came with fleas. We fortunately have no flea problem here. Occasionally Noel will run outside, so it's possible she could pick something up, but they don't have a flea infestation.

It seems like worms to me. Our plan covers for hook and round, but not for treatment or testing for tape (which our vet is going to do anyway, because he's awesome). I have to go over there, but I just don't understand what else it could be if it's not worms.

We have no, absolutely none, of runny/soft stools or diarrhea. They're all very firm. The only signs I'm seeing of something being wrong overall is overall we have *some* vomiting, but not excessive. I mean, it's excessive in that I've got a cat vomiting a day, and overall it has increased, but I don't have every cat vomiting all day long every day. It's more like one or two of the five will vomit once a day. Completely active, and that's zipping around the house *all* day long, like lunatics. Leaping high buildings in a single bound.. (yes, they're supercats, just ask them). We've seen Bagheera and Pogue drag their butts across the floor, but haven't seen the others do it. Pogue, by himself, seems to have a cough and a sneeze, but all of them are eating, drinking, playing and being lunatics like normal. No one is having issues with being picked up, pet, they're not tender anywhere..

There was an incident last night, but I think it's unrelated, where Bagheera was sitting/sleeping on the cat tree. She was curled up, sound asleep...and then suddenly flipped out, knocking herself off the top of the cat tree (it's a little one), where she stood up, threw her paws out, braced herself and looked around like, what's going on????? I pet her and she jumped up in my lap like she had scared herself, and proceeded to get all sorts of scritches...during which I completely checked her over for potential bug bites.. (thought maybe she got stung).. checked her reflexes on her paw, which just went right back to normal when I bent it over.. because we were nervous that it might have been a seizure, although it was so fleeting, no more than like two seconds... we figure it was a bad dream or she just startled herself somehow. She acted completely normal after this happened. Her eyes were normal, and she didn't show any signs at all of anything being wrong.

I'm just sort of worried because if this isn't worms.. to me it seems obvious that there's *something* not quite right, and I'm worried that if it's not figured out soon, I'm risking their health, even though they don't seem to be suffering from whatever it might be.

Oh, and none of them are related and I don't have the mother here... Pogue is erm... 16/18 weeks now? I'm not sure.. bday was March 17. He's a healthy weight... the little porker.
post #6 of 14
I'm not sure what you have going on there. I hope it's nothing serious.

2 of my boys had tapeworms in the recent past. In one, the only sign were the segments on his butt . In the other, the only sign was butt dragging. Droncit (2 doses, 2 weeks apart) cleared it up. I didn't bother with a fecal test on either one.

If multiple cats are dragging their butts and have solid poop, then I would really suspect tapeworms. If they were dragging their butts and had runny or very soft poop, then I would blame the butt dragging on the runny poop...and then you have to find the reason for runny poop. I hope that makes sense.
post #7 of 14
Thread Starter 
right, I figured the itchy butt was either due to worms, or to something in their poop that was making them itch, but I'm finding completely solid well formed turds in the box. It's also not more or less than normal.
post #8 of 14
From what you're saying about Pogue, I would suspect he's still got some roundworms and/or other worms. I think you said his poo has been tested, but I don't know - I think I would deworm him.
post #9 of 14
Originally Posted by CatsAreBetter View Post
right, I figured the itchy butt was either due to worms, or to something in their poop that was making them itch, but I'm finding completely solid well formed turds in the box. It's also not more or less than normal.
Hmmm yes, but Leopold and Junior had solid poops with the tapeworms.
post #10 of 14
Thread Starter 
Well, the plan was I was going to take Bagheera, Pogue, and Joyeux to the vet. Joyeux needed her booster shots...

Bagheera was supposed to be getting wormed there because she's so difficult (okay, we'll go with the word impossible to deal with).. and I didn't want to have to try to medicate her myself... my sister seems to think that it's possible. I told her she's nuts. She's like, so we'll get injuries.. I'm like, if she clamps her mouth closed and won't cooperate, and refuses to take it, and throws it all over the floor, we're not going to be successful... anyway..

I attempted to put Bagheera in the kennel. I picked her up, so far so good... she was pretty calm. I got her to the carrier, I tried to put her in, she got to the opening and balked..started struggling.. I tried to put her in again, from a different angle, she stuck her claws in me. I tried a third time, she then chomped down on my hand and held on for two minutes so now I've got a hugely swollen and hurting finger and she escaped because I couldn't get her in the carrier at the angle she was at with my hand in front of her so she escaped while I attempted to get a better grip on her with my other hand.

Bagheera did not go to the vet. We now have to try to get her to eat her wormer. I am so mad at this cat right now, yes, I know, unreasonable, but I just don't even want to look at her right now.

Besides the point and that was off topic, but I had to vent and didn't think it warranted it's own thread...

Pogue was tested for worms again, and still coming up negative. The vet listened to all the symptoms and said he thinks it's worms. Gave us wormer. We now need to medicate them all, and then see how it proceeds. At least he doesn't think it's serious or if it ends up being serious, doesn't think it's immediately life-threatening, but is pretty sure that it's worms. If we worm them and that's eliminated.. and they still have symptoms, next weekend we have to take them all to the vet for bloodwork. Some of that will be covered by their plan, but Bagheera and Kahn aren't on a plan.

I really hope this wormer does the trick.
post #11 of 14
I'm sorry to hear that you got torn up by an angry kitty. I hope you can get her wormed successfully and it will do the trick for all of them.

Do you think Bagheera would fall for Pill Pockets? I cut the wormer pills into 1/4's for that. It used to work on Leopold...long story why it doesn't anymore, but you know how that goes.
post #12 of 14
Thread Starter 
It's the banana flavored liquid. The vet's like.. oh yes, they love the flavor, it should be no problem feeding it to them. Im' like, no offense, you have obviously not met all of my kitties. They're lunatics. He's just looking at me strangely, and the tech assistant, who has met all of them, is just standing there laughing. This is a new vet for us, at the same clinic.. but we've not worked with him before. I have my two favorite vets. He seemed okay though, but just no concept of how rotten this crew is. Two Bengals who turn ALC at the vets, a Mau who at best will curse you, one domestic that's surprisingly the easiest..even though personality wise she's the meanest.. and one Tonk who is still unknown as of yet with medicating..

Noel will take it mixed with her wet food.. provided I let her go hungry for several hours before I give it to her mixed in the wet goop juice. Bagheera will likely eat it that way, but the bigger issue with her is getting her segregated from the others. Noel has no issue with going into the bathroom to eat, and having the door closed on her. Bagheera is a lunatic, and that's the mild word for it.. she's also ten times "wiser" than the rest, and she just "knows" when something is up. You take meds out of the fridge and she's onto it before the door is closed even if she can't see the fridge and is in a different room. I think Joyeux and Pogue will take it mixed with wet food, and Kahn we're just going to have to force feed it to. He doesn't eat wet or dry.. no way to hide it from him.
post #13 of 14
I have nearly the same problem with getting my toby (14lb cat) to take pills...I would suggust welding gloves. They have long gauntlets, made of suede w/ padding inside. It would take a great deal of force for them to get through that...Also, if she broke the skin on your hand, you should go see your doctor. I've heard of people loosing fingers, etc from cat bites (and it apparently doesn't take long for the bacteria to really do damage).

post #14 of 14
Thread Starter 
Eh, if it gets too out of whack... iow, if it does more than swell a bit and hurt, like get red or show actual signs of infection... I'll go, but at the moment, I'm doing what my nurse friend said and just keeping it unwrapped, uncovered, and unmedicated so that the openings don't seal up, and trap bacteria inside. I keep squeezing it a bit here and there to make it bleed a bit and push the bacteria out. It's just lovely.. this is the year for animal bites, I suppose. Got bit by the dog the first time she went after the cat (that put the other hand out of commission for two weeks), and then by my domestic when the dog killed Tavi and she was trying to protect Tavi, and now by Bagheera. Heh.

My sister, the optimistic, will be here tomorrow, so we shall see if they get through the worming process or not. Bagheera is going to be the most difficult. Noel is the easy one, cause I can put it in her food and she'll eat it, no problems. Pogue's just little enough he doesn't have a choice, Kahn and Joyeux will have a fit, but I think it can be done... and I might be able to slip it in Joyeux's food too. Kahn's the only one who we definitely can't slip it in his food, since he's eating raw and no way to disguise it.
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