I don't want to put him to sleep!

pokey318 · Jun 10, 2007

I need advice and wasn't sure where to which forum to post it on. Please be kind to me as I have struggled with this for a while now.

Tornado is 11 years old and has been healthy his entire life. About 3 months ago he decided to stop using the litter box for pooping; as he only went ever 2 days or so and the stool was semi hard, it wasn't a big deal to just pick it up and flush it. He always went very close to the litter box, just not in the box.

About 5 weeks ago I notice the carpet by the litter box was wet and stained. It seems that Tornado was also peeing outside the litter box. Turns out he had a UTI and a stone in his bladder. We had the stone removed by surgery and he did great. First course of the antibiotics did clear the UTI so we started on a second course. He hated the pills and fought like crazy so we changed to an injection antibiotic for 2 weeks. Just check his urine and there is a bit of residual UTI, but the vet feels he is on the mend.

Tornado is still peeing and pooping on the floor which by the way is wall to wall carpet. I have cleaned the carpet, added more litter boxes with and without lids, cleaned all the boxes, scoop them twice a day; nothing has worked, he still is using the floor. My house smells like a toilet and I am at my wits end. I need to pull the carpet and replace it but I don't want to do that only to have him pee on the new carpet.

I love Tornado and his sister Phoebe, but I can not handle this any more. I really don't know what else to do and my husband wants me to put Tornado to sleep. I can not imagine anyone will want an 11 year old cat that doesn't use a litter box, otherwise I would look into rehoming him. I never thought I would consider putting him to sleep, but this has me not knowing what else to do. I don' mind given him meds if he is sick and have been doing so for 4 weeks. Phoebe has asthma so she get an inhaler every night. Cleaning up pee and poop everyday is just too much for me.

Now that everyone hate me, any suggestions as to what I can do? Am I just a horrible person to be thinking about putting him to sleep? The vet has also suggested that we try giving his Paxel as she has found it to work for behavior problem with cats. I am leavign town for a week so I can not start these meds until I come back if I decided to try them. He is hard as hell to pill so I don't even know if this is an option.

denice · Jun 10, 2007

Have you tried using an enzymatic cleaner like Nature's Miracle? A regular carpet cleaner won't get all the odor out. We human's can't smell it but a cat can. You have to soak the area and let it sit and work.

whiskerynature · Jun 10, 2007

I'm so sorry to hear about your little guy. Did the vet have any ideas? Sometimes inappropriate elimination signals something else is wrong -- healthwise. Maybe a second opinion/checkup with another vet? It sounds like you've already tried to make changes in the house to accomodate him, and you're really struggling. Seek out another vet & search the TCS forums here. Hopefully, some of the more experienced cats will post something soon.

It's clear how much you love your cat; hang in there. GOOD LUCK!!

barbb · Jun 10, 2007

He has associated the litter box with the pain he felt from his UTI and that is why he continues avoiding it. He thinks it is the litter box hurting him. Also he is not completely cleared of his infection so he probably still has twinges!

Also he has become accustomed to using the carpet and he probably forgot why he started going on the carpet to begin with. Even tho you have cleaned it, he can still smell where he has gone.

If there are specific spots where he has gone (and not everywhere) you can try putting big sheets of aluminum foil on those places. Many cats hate the feel and sound of that on their paws. Another thing they hate is double-sided sticky tape, which you can put in the places he eliminated inappropriately along with the aluminum foil. Make sure the foil retains its tinny sound and shape though!

If he has gone all over the carpet, you may have to remove it because he won't know any better and the smell of his past eliminations will be everywhere. The only other thing would be to completely cover the whole carpet with plastic tarp and aluminum foil until you are able to get him back in a new litter box that he does not fear. This may seem extreme but it may be worth it for the time it takes to bring your little kitty back into his normal world. For him this has been a trauma and he is doing what he thinks will help him avoid pain

.

With a new litter box, use Cat Attract litter. I have had people recommend it to me, and one of my friends used it when her cat had a UTI and also became afraid of the litter box. If you see him go into the box and inspect it, give him lots of praise and give him a treat. I think it may be worth trying to put the litter box in a new location since he could even associate the old location with his pain. Remember all you need to do is get him to start using the new box wherever it is, and to stop using the carpet. Once you do that, you should be able to put everything back the way it was, little by little.

The only thing that could be a lingering problem is your carpet. The person who recommended enzymatic cleaners is right on. Regular cleaners will not take out the smell. I have read that the enzymatic ones should be used before other cleaners in order to be effective so you may have trouble getting your carpet back to normal depending on how bad his elimination was. Maybe just take one thing at a time. Get him back in the box, keep the carpet covered, and then think about new carpet.

Good luck, you are a trooper. I have had this problem and I sympathize with you very much.

pokey318 · Jun 10, 2007

I have used enough Nature's Miracle to own stock in the company!! My carpet cleaner is going to come and clean the room. Hopefully between the Natire's Miracle and the professional carpet cleaning we can get most of the smell out. I know that the urine might have gone through to the sub floor and the only way to get rid of that odor will be to pull the carpet and clean the sub floor.

The litter boxes are in a large finished bonus room over the garage. It use to be the kids playroom when they were little; now it is the cat's suite!! One litter box was placed over the area where Tornado was peeing, not he just pees near that litter box. If I move the litter box to another area of the room, I am afraid he will just go pee beside that box; then I will have a whole other area of carpet with pee in it!

I could try covering the area with a painter's drop cloth and place the litter boxes over that, although I really think he will either go on that or find the carpet. I can not move the litter box to another room as the cats stay upstairs as we have a dog down that they don't like. There isn't another place upstairs for a litter box as we just have out bedrooms and bathrooms. The kids are all home this summer so I can't even use their bathrooms which are very small.

beandip · Jun 10, 2007

I know that these problems are frustrating. I don't think you are a horrible person. I hope we can help you.

Has Tornado had a follow up urinalysis? Urinary/bladder problems oftentimes take a long time to clear up. More often than not, there is more than one issue going on. If he is passing any crystals in his urine, it is still painful to urinate. A diet change may be necessary. What does he eat now?

If you are at a point of considering euthanasia, I would definitely suggest that you try the Paxil. My vet prefers Prozac, as she said it's been equally effective in her experience and the cost is much lower. It takes just a tiny bit of powder from a capsule for a once a day dose. It can be hidden in wet cat food. Hard pills can be hidden in a pill pocket treat (www.pillpockets.com). The pill pockets are great! They're available at Petco, Petsmart, and smaller pet food and feed stores too.

The others have given you great advice. I hope you're able to get the issues with Tornado straightened out.

momofmany · Jun 10, 2007

I second Barb's advice and really want to second Cat Attract litter. They sell it either as litter, or an additive that you can add to your litter. It has a very strong earthy smell to it and all of my problem cats have responded to it. I've seen it sold at some Petsmart's, some vets office, but you can also get it from Dr. Elsey (the inventor)'s web site: http://www.preciouscat.com/

catnapt · Jun 10, 2007

hi
just a quick reply, i'm sure you're doing all you can to solve this problem

if things don't work out, perhaps you could look into re homing him to someone who lives in a place where allowing him outside would be an option.

it's not ideal but its better than putting him to sleep.

just an idea.

i dont know what i'd do if i couldnt get a cat to stop peeing in the house, i rent and really couldnt keep a cat with that problem.
i've had cats have accidents but those who refuse to use the litterbox altogether,
that is no way for anyone to live.

not only does it smell horrible its not healthy for the other cats nor the ppl in the house.

the only other option i can think of, if you can afford it, is to get a cat condo, a large cage on wheels, they sell for $100 to $150 or so,
usually they have two shelves and room for a litter box.
you put the cat in there til he relearns to use the box, which can take up to a month, i've read.

might be worth a try. it may seem terrible to have to confine him like that, but its better than some of the alternatives

my first cat spent 6 weeks in a cat condo as she had uncontrollable diahhrea.
it was really the only thing we could do.
it wasnt as bad as it might sound. she didnt seem to mind at all, as long as she was fed and pet from time to time.

good luck!!

pokey318 · Jun 10, 2007

I have thought about the cat attract litter; one question-are cats that are indoor cats only still attracted to the smell of this litter?

Tornado has had 3 or 4 urinalysis over the course of treatment. He shows no crystals in his urine, but the vet changed him to prescription diet anyway just in case. Before that I had been feeding him Innova to increase the fiber as his stools were hard and I thought that might be why he was pooping on the floor. Neither if my cats will touch wet food; they only eat dry. the few times Tornado has licked a bit of canned food he has thrown up. And when I say lick, he only will lick the top once or twice before walking away. So canned food is a no go in this house.

Pill pocket also do not work with Tornado, he did not like the texture of them. We we able to hide a pill in a treat from the vet, but that only worked for 3 days or so; then we had to go to injections for his antibiotics. He has been on antibiotics for over 4 weeks and we are trying anti inflammatory meds again. As I can not hide a pill, I worry about getting the Paxel down, but I believe it is a 1/4 tablet, so it should be quite small. I have no problems with the injections and feel that he got his full dose every day where as with the pill I might find where he spit one out on the floor.

pokey318 · Jun 10, 2007

I would not allow him to be rehomed to a house where he wouldn't be an inside cat only. He would not survive outside after being in for 11 years. I would be afraid he would run off and get killed which is worst than putting him to sleep.

I think he would scream and carry on if locked in a cage, but it is a possibility. I have thought if boarding him at a cat kennel, but I think that would be stressful to him. I just don;t know if the humans and other animals in the house would appreciate listening to him scream, but maybe he would settle down after a few days.

whiskerynature · Jun 10, 2007

Originally Posted by pokey318

I have thought about the cat attract litter; one question-are cats that are indoor cats only still attracted to the smell of this litter?

Tornado has had 3 or 4 urinalysis over the course of treatment. He shows no crystals in his urine, but the vet changed him to prescription diet anyway just in case. Before that I had been feeding him Innova to increase the fiber as his stools were hard and I thought that might be why he was pooping on the floor. Neither if my cats will touch wet food; they only eat dry. the few times Tornado has licked a bit of canned food he has thrown up. And when I say lick, he only will lick the top once or twice before walking away. So canned food is a no go in this house.

Pill pocket also do not work with Tornado, he did not like the texture of them. We we able to hide a pill in a treat from the vet, but that only worked for 3 days or so; then we had to go to injections for his antibiotics. He has been on antibiotics for over 4 weeks and we are trying anti inflammatory meds again. As I can not hide a pill, I worry about getting the Paxel down, but I believe it is a 1/4 tablet, so it should be quite small. I have no problems with the injections and feel that he got his full dose every day where as with the pill I might find where he spit one out on the floor.

Pill pockets -- if our guys are in the mood, they'll take a pill pocket, otherwise, it's a no-go. Our vet showed us how to hold a cat to administer a pill (2 person effort b/c we're not as suave as the vet), but it works & made the pill-ing easier. Also got one of the pill-plunger things instead of using our fingers. Ask your vet to show you -- it makes things a breeze!! (really!)

Wet food -- have you tried ProPlan UTI wet/can? Even our picky I-only-eat-dry-food-guy will eat some of this (while boycotting more premium brands like Merrick!!) Munchie would only nibble at the Rx wet s/d.

P.S. Have you considered getting a water fountain (a 2nd one if you already have one)? We have 3 now for 2 cats b/c we're trying to increase their water intake after Munchie's UTI-crystal-bout this summer. They definitely drink a lot more b/c we put one in the bedroom, and one in the living room (3rd one was retired b/c it "fell out of favor"

)

catnapt · Jun 10, 2007

Cat Attract litter comes with a guarentee (as long as you follow their guidelines)

every cat i've ever had or fostered has loved this cat litter, they all prefer it hands down over all other litters
i dont have a cat with litter box issues but i get it anyway because they all like it so much and it has virtually no dust.
i cant detect any odor to it at all but the cats seem to, they ve got a much better sense of smell than we do.

for a cat with urinary tract problems a canned food diet would be much better and almost all cats can be switched to it if you are commited to doing it.

i can give you a link to a vets site with detailed information on how to go about it. she herself has a cat who only liked dried food and she was able to switch the cat to canned. it has to be done gradually to avoid digestive upset. usually the owner prefers the convenience of dry food and really doesnt want to give it a good try.

i dont understand what the reason for boarding him would be? do you mean permanently?

i dont think he'd scream if he was confined temporarily to a large cat cage., for a few weeks to a month, if needed.
it probably would be harder on you than on him. i am sure he'd prefer that to being put to sleep. an 11 yr old cat who has been kept inside and who has had as good vet care as he has, could easily live another 8 or more years.

you've gotten a lot of great suggestions. i hope things work out for you and him.

gothicangel69 · Jun 10, 2007

I had to confine one of my cats to a crate for a few weeks after he hurt his back. He didn't like it at first, and carried on for a few days, but after that he settled down and when I finally was able to let him out, he actually used to go back to the wire crate to sleep and just chill. You would be amazed at how quickly they learn to adapt to things. I would certainly give the crate a try. It would help save your carpet as well.
Good luck and I hope you can fix the problem.

gailuvscats · Jun 10, 2007

If he has been fine for 11 years, and has only started this three months ago, I would say there is something WRONG. HE needs a complete checkup at the vet, has anything changed three months ago? any new cats outside? Somthing, did you move furniture, get a boyfriend. I think if you get to the root of the problem, you will resolve it.

mzjazz2u · Jun 10, 2007

It sounds like you really want to do the right thing (whatever that is) and you and your vet have been trying very hard to resolve the problem. You've gotten some great advice here and I hope something works for you. One thing I used to do when I had a kitty that peed outside the box, is put a vinyl table cloth under the litter box. That way if he peed outside the box, it was on the table cloth.

cloud_shade · Jun 10, 2007

With Nature's Miracle, it has to dry completely before you'll know if it's effective. Has the vet checked Tornado for arthritis? Sometimes, as they get older, they have trouble getting into and out of the litter box. I would imagine this might be compounded if his bladder is still sore. You can try getting a litter box with lower sides (or one low side for an entrance), or even a flat tray with a puppy training pad to absorb the urine. That way, it may hurt him less to get in and out if he has arthritis.

kuntrykitty · Jun 10, 2007

Originally Posted by gailuvscats

If he has been fine for 11 years, and has only started this three months ago, I would say there is something WRONG. HE needs a complete checkup at the vet, has anything changed three months ago? any new cats outside? Somthing, did you move furniture, get a boyfriend. I think if you get to the root of the problem, you will resolve it.

I think somebody already discussed what Tornado's problem most likely is. He associates the pain he had from the crystal with the litterbox.
I can't give you any more advice. What I would do is just go through this topic again and try every single suggestion. I really do hope you resolve your issue! Good luck with the sweetie!

momofmany · Jun 10, 2007

You said that you had problems giving pills. I use this method with feral cats with great success:

Have the pill ready before you do this. Preferable get a pill gun from your vet.

Kneel on the floor with your ankles crossed under your behind. Place the cat between your thighs with their head facing away from your body. They cannot wiggle out the back or the sides, and you will be approaching him with the pill from the front.

Place your left hand (or right hand if you are left handed) over the top of his head with your thumb on one side of his mouth and your fingers on the other side. Gently open his mouth. With your other hand, place the pill towards the back of their mouth then place your right hand on their chin/neck and raise up their face so that it faces upwards, rubbing their throat to get them to swallow.

When all else fails, this usually works.

catnapt · Jun 10, 2007

whiskerynature;1824993 said:
Wet food -- have you tried ProPlan UTI wet/can? Even our picky I-only-eat-dry-food-guy will eat some of this (while boycotting more premium brands like Merrick!!) Munchie would only nibble at the Rx wet s/d.

oh yeh, ProPlan, i dont know what they put in that food but my guys love it.

water fountain is a great idea

another way i get my guys to drink more is to put water in novel containers and in places that they would not expect to find water..
something about that makes them want to drink the water, the little weirdos

your guy is lucky that you are trying so hard to make things work out.

oh, you might want to ask your vet about liquid meds instead of pills, those are sometimes easier to give than pills

and SOME liquid meds are now compounded into flavors that cats love, tuna fish and chicken etc

also some meds come in a transdermal cream that you just rub on the inside of their ear flaps

my guy gets his antihistimine that way, and my old girl got her prednisone that way
its so easy to do

good luck!!

pokey318 · Jun 10, 2007

So many helpful ideas, some I have try and others I will give a try.

As far as pilling Tornado, I have and can pill every other cat and dog I have had or currently have-Tornado just likes to live up to his name and is hard to keep a hold of. He is really good at clamping his mouth shut or if you manage to get the pill in he either spits it out, or if you touched his tongue with the pill, he starts foaming at the mouth, runs and the pill goes flying!! Before Phoebe when on the inhaler for her asthma, I was pilling her twice a day two pills each time; that was a piece of cake compare to pilling Tornado once!! Injections are the way to go with this guy and he doesn't seem to mind to much.

Tornado had a full senior check up complete with hundreds of dollars of blood work and urine. He also had xray to check his belly due to the pooping on the floor; that is when we found the stone in his bladder. The stone is still out at the lab and I should get results this week.

No arthritis with this guy, he can jump and climb with the best of them. The litter boxes are low anyway so that isn't a problem.

Nothing has changed in our home to make Tornado upset. He is an indoor cat and he and his sister get the upstairs and the dog get to stay downstairs. The dog gets up during the day, but the cats get to sleep with us, so I think they are the happiest!!

I don't want to put him to sleep!

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