I don't want to put him to sleep!

Have you tried using an enzymatic cleaner like Nature's Miracle? A regular carpet cleaner won't get all the odor out. We human's can't smell it but a cat can. You have to soak the area and let it sit and work.

I'm so sorry to hear about your little guy. Did the vet have any ideas? Sometimes inappropriate elimination signals something else is wrong -- healthwise. Maybe a second opinion/checkup with another vet? It sounds like you've already tried to make changes in the house to accomodate him, and you're really struggling. Seek out another vet & search the TCS forums here. Hopefully, some of the more experienced cats will post something soon.

It's clear how much you love your cat; hang in there. GOOD LUCK!!

He has associated the litter box with the pain he felt from his UTI and that is why he continues avoiding it. He thinks it is the litter box hurting him. Also he is not completely cleared of his infection so he probably still has twinges!

Also he has become accustomed to using the carpet and he probably forgot why he started going on the carpet to begin with. Even tho you have cleaned it, he can still smell where he has gone.

If there are specific spots where he has gone (and not everywhere) you can try putting big sheets of aluminum foil on those places. Many cats hate the feel and sound of that on their paws. Another thing they hate is double-sided sticky tape, which you can put in the places he eliminated inappropriately along with the aluminum foil. Make sure the foil retains its tinny sound and shape though!

If he has gone all over the carpet, you may have to remove it because he won't know any better and the smell of his past eliminations will be everywhere. The only other thing would be to completely cover the whole carpet with plastic tarp and aluminum foil until you are able to get him back in a new litter box that he does not fear. This may seem extreme but it may be worth it for the time it takes to bring your little kitty back into his normal world. For him this has been a trauma and he is doing what he thinks will help him avoid pain .

With a new litter box, use Cat Attract litter. I have had people recommend it to me, and one of my friends used it when her cat had a UTI and also became afraid of the litter box. If you see him go into the box and inspect it, give him lots of praise and give him a treat. I think it may be worth trying to put the litter box in a new location since he could even associate the old location with his pain. Remember all you need to do is get him to start using the new box wherever it is, and to stop using the carpet. Once you do that, you should be able to put everything back the way it was, little by little.

The only thing that could be a lingering problem is your carpet. The person who recommended enzymatic cleaners is right on. Regular cleaners will not take out the smell. I have read that the enzymatic ones should be used before other cleaners in order to be effective so you may have trouble getting your carpet back to normal depending on how bad his elimination was. Maybe just take one thing at a time. Get him back in the box, keep the carpet covered, and then think about new carpet.

Good luck, you are a trooper. I have had this problem and I sympathize with you very much.

I know that these problems are frustrating. I don't think you are a horrible person. I hope we can help you.

Has Tornado had a follow up urinalysis? Urinary/bladder problems oftentimes take a long time to clear up. More often than not, there is more than one issue going on. If he is passing any crystals in his urine, it is still painful to urinate. A diet change may be necessary. What does he eat now?

If you are at a point of considering euthanasia, I would definitely suggest that you try the Paxil. My vet prefers Prozac, as she said it's been equally effective in her experience and the cost is much lower. It takes just a tiny bit of powder from a capsule for a once a day dose. It can be hidden in wet cat food. Hard pills can be hidden in a pill pocket treat (www.pillpockets.com). The pill pockets are great! They're available at Petco, Petsmart, and smaller pet food and feed stores too.

The others have given you great advice. I hope you're able to get the issues with Tornado straightened out.

I second Barb's advice and really want to second Cat Attract litter. They sell it either as litter, or an additive that you can add to your litter. It has a very strong earthy smell to it and all of my problem cats have responded to it. I've seen it sold at some Petsmart's, some vets office, but you can also get it from Dr. Elsey (the inventor)'s web site: http://www.preciouscat.com/

hi
just a quick reply, i'm sure you're doing all you can to solve this problem

if things don't work out, perhaps you could look into re homing him to someone who lives in a place where allowing him outside would be an option.

it's not ideal but its better than putting him to sleep.

just an idea.

i dont know what i'd do if i couldnt get a cat to stop peeing in the house, i rent and really couldnt keep a cat with that problem.
i've had cats have accidents but those who refuse to use the litterbox altogether,
that is no way for anyone to live.

not only does it smell horrible its not healthy for the other cats nor the ppl in the house.

the only other option i can think of, if you can afford it, is to get a cat condo, a large cage on wheels, they sell for $100 to $150 or so,
usually they have two shelves and room for a litter box.
you put the cat in there til he relearns to use the box, which can take up to a month, i've read.

might be worth a try. it may seem terrible to have to confine him like that, but its better than some of the alternatives

my first cat spent 6 weeks in a cat condo as she had uncontrollable diahhrea.
it was really the only thing we could do.
it wasnt as bad as it might sound. she didnt seem to mind at all, as long as she was fed and pet from time to time.

good luck!!

Pill pockets -- if our guys are in the mood, they'll take a pill pocket, otherwise, it's a no-go. Our vet showed us how to hold a cat to administer a pill (2 person effort b/c we're not as suave as the vet), but it works & made the pill-ing easier. Also got one of the pill-plunger things instead of using our fingers. Ask your vet to show you -- it makes things a breeze!! (really!)

Wet food -- have you tried ProPlan UTI wet/can? Even our picky I-only-eat-dry-food-guy will eat some of this (while boycotting more premium brands like Merrick!!) Munchie would only nibble at the Rx wet s/d.

P.S. Have you considered getting a water fountain (a 2nd one if you already have one)? We have 3 now for 2 cats b/c we're trying to increase their water intake after Munchie's UTI-crystal-bout this summer. They definitely drink a lot more b/c we put one in the bedroom, and one in the living room (3rd one was retired b/c it "fell out of favor" )

Cat Attract litter comes with a guarentee (as long as you follow their guidelines)

every cat i've ever had or fostered has loved this cat litter, they all prefer it hands down over all other litters
i dont have a cat with litter box issues but i get it anyway because they all like it so much and it has virtually no dust.
i cant detect any odor to it at all but the cats seem to, they ve got a much better sense of smell than we do.

for a cat with urinary tract problems a canned food diet would be much better and almost all cats can be switched to it if you are commited to doing it.

i can give you a link to a vets site with detailed information on how to go about it. she herself has a cat who only liked dried food and she was able to switch the cat to canned. it has to be done gradually to avoid digestive upset. usually the owner prefers the convenience of dry food and really doesnt want to give it a good try.

i dont understand what the reason for boarding him would be? do you mean permanently?


i dont think he'd scream if he was confined temporarily to a large cat cage., for a few weeks to a month, if needed.
it probably would be harder on you than on him. i am sure he'd prefer that to being put to sleep. an 11 yr old cat who has been kept inside and who has had as good vet care as he has, could easily live another 8 or more years.




you've gotten a lot of great suggestions. i hope things work out for you and him.

I had to confine one of my cats to a crate for a few weeks after he hurt his back. He didn't like it at first, and carried on for a few days, but after that he settled down and when I finally was able to let him out, he actually used to go back to the wire crate to sleep and just chill. You would be amazed at how quickly they learn to adapt to things. I would certainly give the crate a try. It would help save your carpet as well.
Good luck and I hope you can fix the problem.

If he has been fine for 11 years, and has only started this three months ago, I would say there is something WRONG. HE needs a complete checkup at the vet, has anything changed three months ago? any new cats outside? Somthing, did you move furniture, get a boyfriend. I think if you get to the root of the problem, you will resolve it.

It sounds like you really want to do the right thing (whatever that is) and you and your vet have been trying very hard to resolve the problem. You've gotten some great advice here and I hope something works for you. One thing I used to do when I had a kitty that peed outside the box, is put a vinyl table cloth under the litter box. That way if he peed outside the box, it was on the table cloth.

With Nature's Miracle, it has to dry completely before you'll know if it's effective. Has the vet checked Tornado for arthritis? Sometimes, as they get older, they have trouble getting into and out of the litter box. I would imagine this might be compounded if his bladder is still sore. You can try getting a litter box with lower sides (or one low side for an entrance), or even a flat tray with a puppy training pad to absorb the urine. That way, it may hurt him less to get in and out if he has arthritis.

I think somebody already discussed what Tornado's problem most likely is. He associates the pain he had from the crystal with the litterbox.
I can't give you any more advice. What I would do is just go through this topic again and try every single suggestion. I really do hope you resolve your issue! Good luck with the sweetie!

You said that you had problems giving pills. I use this method with feral cats with great success:

Have the pill ready before you do this. Preferable get a pill gun from your vet.

Kneel on the floor with your ankles crossed under your behind. Place the cat between your thighs with their head facing away from your body. They cannot wiggle out the back or the sides, and you will be approaching him with the pill from the front.

Place your left hand (or right hand if you are left handed) over the top of his head with your thumb on one side of his mouth and your fingers on the other side. Gently open his mouth. With your other hand, place the pill towards the back of their mouth then place your right hand on their chin/neck and raise up their face so that it faces upwards, rubbing their throat to get them to swallow.

When all else fails, this usually works.

[quote=whiskerynature;1824993]Wet food -- have you tried ProPlan UTI wet/can? Even our picky I-only-eat-dry-food-guy will eat some of this (while boycotting more premium brands like Merrick!!) Munchie would only nibble at the Rx wet s/d.


oh yeh, ProPlan, i dont know what they put in that food but my guys love it.

water fountain is a great idea

another way i get my guys to drink more is to put water in novel containers and in places that they would not expect to find water..
something about that makes them want to drink the water, the little weirdos

your guy is lucky that you are trying so hard to make things work out.

oh, you might want to ask your vet about liquid meds instead of pills, those are sometimes easier to give than pills

and SOME liquid meds are now compounded into flavors that cats love, tuna fish and chicken etc

also some meds come in a transdermal cream that you just rub on the inside of their ear flaps

my guy gets his antihistimine that way, and my old girl got her prednisone that way
its so easy to do

good luck!!

when I had litter box issues, the guilty party was confined by themselves, with a litter box with Cat attract. As soon as litter box habits started going back to normal, I would allow supervised visitations out of the room. Just kept doing this until he was trustworthy out in the house, and it never happened again. But you are correct that if the uirine has soaked into the subfloor, it will have to be cleaned and primered probably. The cat can still smell it, even if you get it clean enough that you can't. And my cats loved thecat attract litter, so much so that they slept in the litterboxes.

No one can get on your case for considering putting your cat to sleep. You obviously love your cat and have been trying everything you know to stop this. Many times someone new will come on this forum and have tried nothing and have just decided their cat is bad and have pretty much already decided to get rid of their cat. You obviously do not fall in that category. I know it is frustrating but given his long history of using a litterbox I really think there is a solution and hard as it is if you keep trying you will find the solution.

I don't think anyone is suggesting you don't know how to pill a cat. Some are more difficult then others and it never hurts to know what others tricks are! Jake also foams at the mouth if I'm pilling and don't get it far enough back. I use the piller (Momofmany calls it a pill gun) to get it more toward the back of his mouth/throat and then release it. You can get them at stores like petsmart and they are only about $3.00. Then you have to hold their mouth shut and rub the front of the neck. Jake doesn't foam this way and I know he's swallowed it when he starts trying to put his tounge out to lick his chops! To open a reluctant cats mouth, one really needs to place the hands over the top of the kitty and use thumb on one side and fingers on the other to open the mouth from the side. Works every time. It's almost like it is a reflex for them to open this way.

It really sounds like he's just not completely over his UTI and really needs to finish those meds. If he's associating the litter box with pain maybe you could try getting a new litter pan and moving it to a different spot with some cat attract in it. Then he'll have a box that isn't associated with pain since it doesn't have the old familiar odors in the old familiar place.

I can sympathise...Leopold is the first cat I've seen who CAN keep his mouth firmly shut with his nose pointed at the sky. No reflexes on that boy.

I would highly recommend a repeat urinalysis. If that comes up clean, I think the confinement is a good idea. A bathroom that has no absorbent surfaces anywhere is good, or a good sized dog crate works too. I have seen the super deluxe huge dog crates locally for $79...the biggest one that costs double at Petsmart. Maybe you can call around and find a similar deal.

The antidepressants do work. Prozac and Paxil are the best for this IMO.

Oh and a less expensive alternative to Feliway spray is "No Mark". It works on the same principle, i.e it's a pheromone spray - not a deterrent. 16oz for $9.99 is a heck of a deal compared to $28 for a tiny bottle. I'm a satisfied customer if you can't tell.

With Nature's Miracle on carpet, you really have to soak the area well so that it can get down to the carpet's under layer. I found that I wasn't getting the job done until I really saturated it.

It does sound like the cat is still remembering the pain from before, or more likely is smelling the scent in places where he used to be. It's only been a few months, and also he may not have had time to get over the stress of the illness... if you give him some more time and work hard on re-training, he'll forget eventually.

I'm sure if Tornado could get a meow-English translator, he'd probably say, "Thanks for doing everything you can for me! Sorry I'm peeing all over . Thanks for being patient!"

You sound like a cat-lover-on-a-mission.
GOOD LUCK! GOOD LUCK! and GOOD LUCK!

I would use that first hand to SCRUFF the cat otherwise you will get bit! Especailly if the cat is feral!

Awwww.......that is soooo sweet!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


My mother's cat, Cleo, will not poo in the box...ONLY PEE!! Figure that out. We've tried everything and it just continues. Granted, poo is easier to deal with....but she just put down carpet reminent (spelling?) where she does the job. Another option for you to try since it is carpet your cat likes!

I'm repeating what has already been said but....one of my cats started peeing outside the litter box (on carpet, the cat beds, clothes, shoes, a box of cat toys, bean bag chairs x 2 etc.). Well he had a UTI with some crystals. It turns out he had swallowed a 9" red ribbon. He ended up chucking it out with a hairball.

But he still peed outside the litter box after that. I threw everything out he had peed on which by that time included 2 down duvets; he left no stone unturned. I got rid of carpet too. Cleaned the floor underneath. He wouldn't use the litter boxes because I do think he associated them with the pain from the UTI. The solution was finishing his antibiotics plus Cat Attract. He loved it. As soon as I put it out he went immediately in that litter box (I bought him a new litter box) AND so did all the other cats. So I had to change all the litter boxes to Cat Attract. I haven't had any problems since and it's been about 6 months now.

Good luck. My house smelled like cat pee I know what it's like. But there was a reason behind the behaviour. We fixed the reason and with the new litter box and the Cat Attract got him back to being happy about using the litter box. He is such a sweet boy and the material goods I threw away, well, as they went into the dumpster I figured, How many duvets do you need in Texas anyway.