I have officially give up!

Originally Posted by lukeblaise

Why hasn't anyone given any good advice yet?

What you need to do is find another vet!

Do this by yourself, or ask your vet for a referral.

And keep looking for a vet that can give you some answers. Forget about that holisitic stuff.

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Welcome to TCS...

The poster is in a small town... ... and thus has limited options... She has gotten advice and much of it depending how she views it may help

Prednisone really messes with the immune system. People and vets into holistic treatments treat prednisone like it's the enemy! And in humans it not only messes up the immune system, but also increases degeneration of tendons. Especially in the lower legs/ankles. Not sure if animals are the same with the tendon thing. Anyway, I'd be very careful using prednisone or any steroid, natural or not. Arsenic is natural but not necessarily good for us! Sometimes prednisone is necessary (if it's life or death such as breathing etc.). But I'd think twice about it and maybe look into other alternatives. I think you can consult a holistic vet online for a small fee. I don't have a link for you but I bet if you google it, you'll find one!

Some things I would try:

Feeding much smaller, more frequent meals.
Put her her on a simple food with very few ingredients.
Maybe trying something like Transfer Factor.
Raising the bowl (as Tricia said).

One last word on prednisone/steroids. If you do end up trying, always withdraw this medication slowly as it does weaken the immune system. Cut the dose in half every 4 days.

Prednisone does mess with the immune system...but if the immune system has become the enemy, then a counter-attack is necessary IMO. Cats have far fewer long term issues with prednisone than humans do. I agree that it is a drug that shouldn't be used if it's not necessary, but if there's no other way to have a decent quality of life then I would definitely try it.

I feel with you!

Sorry, I am no expert, but have you tried "Addiction"? The broshure says it is good for cats with food allergy issues, as it doesn't contain the usual meats, but Possum and Eel.

My vet recommended it. Mine are a bit fussy, so I need to mix it with some of their dry for them to actually eat it.

Good luck!

Originally Posted by jcat

Sorry, I'm not up to date on all your posts about Damita. Projectile vomiting is, IME, a physical/anatomical problem. Have you tried elevating her food dish (put a flat dish on a foot stool, or in a stand)? How about giving her dry food in a dog's treat ball, so that she can only eat at a slow pace? Or, when giving her canned food, spoon feeding her at a rate of about three teaspoons in a half hour? I know that all sounds crazy, but I've had luck with those strategies with two pets (a rat and a dog) who spewed their stomach contents for no discernible reason.

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I feed her 6x a day, plus free fed dry. I've found a box to put her food bowl on to see if that helps. She eats mostly wet because of the high urine pH.

Originally Posted by lukeblaise

Why hasn't anyone given any good advice yet?

What you need to do is find another vet!

Do this by yourself, or ask your vet for a referral.

And keep looking for a vet that can give you some answers. Forget about that holisitic stuff.

Click to expand...

I am out of vets. This is the best one in the area. He's spoke with other vets as well who have no ideas.

Awwww Nat, I have no expertise on how to help her..but wanted to send vibes for the poor girl{{{{}}}}

I hope she feels better soon

hi
i'm so sorry you are having this problem
i dont have any suggestions beyond what you've already gotten,
i did have to raise the food bowl for my cat who had IBD/food allergie and CRF and that helped her

and i have one cat who eats too fast so i have to mash her food down into the plate so she eats slower, otherwise the food comes right back up.

is she vomiting right after eating?
or some time afterwards?

is she maintaining her weight?

i know of one other cat whose problem was the same, she tried everything and nothing worked,
but since the cat was not losing weight, the vet said not to worry about it

(easy for him to say, he doesnt have to clean it up)

if i think of anything else i'll let you know

oh, you might want to try PetfoodDirect online, they may carry the venison and green pea in the dry

my girl with food allegies used to eat it til her kidneys got bad, it had too much phosphorus

there is also a prescription venison and green pea that comes in canned and dry, i'll see if i can find the brand name

Hi, I am new to this thread and your problem, but wanted to ask if you have tried the webinars at Petsmart Charities. Here is a list of recorded webinars you can view and listen to (there are live ones too), and there is a really good one on ringworm.

You can access the recorded sessions by clicking on the link on the upper left column on this page (under "attend a session). All you need to do is download webex, make sure you have sound on your pc, and go.

https://petsmartcharities.webex.com/...smartcharities

If you "attend" the webinar, I am pretty sure you will be able to write to Dr. Sandra Newbury at UC Davis to ask her about your cat and situation. She did the ringworm webinar and she has done many others for Petsmart Charities.

I attended this seminar myself a while ago and one of our foster homes had ringworm so I wrote to her for help. She gave me a lot of good advice and she answered me very promptly. She may be able to give you some overall advice. I know ringworm may not be your cat's main problem, but this is a start.

I do not recall whether her email is listed as part of the webinar, but if not, you might be able to get it through the Petsmart Charities help area.

This site and the free offerings are a really good resource for anyone interested in cat care. Please accept my apologies if this is "old news" for everyone :-) or if my information is incorrect and you are not able to get help. I hope it does help you. :-) It sounds like you have done so much for this kitty. You are a real saint.

Originally Posted by catnapt

is she vomiting right after eating?
or some time afterwards?

is she maintaining her weight?

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To your first two questions, both. She vomits periodically throughout the day. She hasn't vomited at all today, simply "dry heaves". It's either vomiting or dry heaves. She is right around the 8 lb. mark. She weighed 12 lbs. around Oct 2006, I believe. Jan 2007 she was down to 7.9-ish lbs. She has remained right around 8 lbs. since Jan of this year.

BarbB, I am not familiar with Petsmart webinars, so I will check them out!

Originally Posted by white cat lover

See that's the thing! Damita did fine on the NB Venison & GP for awhile, but then started showing "allergy symptoms" again! Not to mention, she refuses the wet & I cannot find the dry anywhere.

I tried urine acidifiers for her, it didn't work. The vet & I had a hard time understanding her....her urine pH did not seem overly affected by what she eats, honestly. I think the lowest we actually got it to was between 8.0-8.5....which still isn't good enough for me. He told me to come back in 3 months, which would be this month.

ETA: She has symptoms that my grandma does.....gram's immune system is attacking her body.....so they've given her drugs to suppress her own immune system. I've thought about that for Damita....

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Her urinary pH is alarming! I freak when one of mine gets up to 7. 8- 8.5 is way too high. Does she have some kind of acid/base imbalance due to the chronic vomiting? Like a systemic alkalosis?

I understand your gram's issues with her immune system. I have several autoimmune disorders so I understand the need to suppress immune systems. I certainly didn't mean to imply you were not understanding them either.

My concern is, that it seems like your vet was originally concerned with and underactive or already suppressed immune system and looked for those causes. When the big two (FeLv and FIV) came back negative then the switched to an autoimmune disease. However there are other causes of immuno-suppression, and chronic ringworm really is a classic sign of immuno-supression in cats.

Prednisone is a good drug in the right circumstances, even with all the negative side effects. The problem is, if Damita really has an already suppressed immune system of unknown etiology, giving her pred or other immuno-supressants could kill her.

I know for certain UC Davis can test for autoimmune disease in cats, dogs and horses. the bloodwork is expensive. However I would test before giving prednisone. UC Davis is also excellent at doing long distance consulting either through your current vet or with owners directly. I have sent blood samples to them from our horses directly. I live very rural, so utilizing the consulting services of the big teaching hospitals has become a must.

If I am remembering correctly I think you live in Minnesota. Have you tried the U of M veterinary teaching hospital. They did the bone grafts and eventual amputation on one of my kitties legs. It was a $2500 surgery, but they used her as a teaching case and wrote off everything but the hardware. I paid $250 (which was awesome because I was a poor college student). It might be very worth a call and a trip to the cities, there used to be some decent inexpensive hotels over by the St. Paul campus where the vet school is.

Originally Posted by beandip

Prednisone does mess with the immune system...but if the immune system has become the enemy, then a counter-attack is necessary IMO.

Cats have far fewer long term issues with prednisone than humans do. I agree that it is a drug that shouldn't be used if it's not necessary, but if there's no other way to have a decent quality of life then I would definitely try it.

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I agree totally. But I feel strongly that whenever prednisone is used as a treatment, it needs to be done so by a trained veternarian watching closely. Especially when it is not known for sure that it is an autoimmune issue. It can be a dangerous drug, if not used appropriately in the right situation.

Originally Posted by white cat lover

To your first two questions, both. She vomits periodically throughout the day. She hasn't vomited at all today, simply "dry heaves". It's either vomiting or dry heaves. She is right around the 8 lb. mark. She weighed 12 lbs. around Oct 2006, I believe. Jan 2007 she was down to 7.9-ish lbs. She has remained right around 8 lbs. since Jan of this year.

BarbB, I am not familiar with Petsmart webinars, so I will check them out!

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You're bringing Jake's last illness and problems all back to me. I sure hope you get this figured out soon. Poor little Damita. Hugs and scritches to her!

The K State Vet school website has a "menu" with prices for labwork. You can narrow the list by category...maybe kittymonsters would recognize if there's any certain suitable test on the list and/or comment on the prices.

http://www.vet.ksu.edu/depts/dmp/ser....asp?query=all

I know i'm coming in late here, but I thought I would comment as I have a kitty on low-dose prednisone to combat what we believe is an auto-immune disorder. As you mentionned it's almost impossible to test for the disorder, but by process of elimination and 8 months, we found that prednisone/steroids eliminated all the symptoms.

Rambo (steroid kitty), had strange symptoms like Damita that were tough to nail down. He would get swollen eyes and blisters in his throat that would make swallowing so painful that he would retch whenever he swallowed...or he would just drool to keep from swallowing. Whatever he has causes his immune system to attack mucous membranes (throat, eyes etc.) and possible other things we couldn't see (i think it caused him joint/muscle pain and stomach pain). The steroids have eliminate all the symptoms and we haven't had a single outbreak of the disorder (once or twice a month before that). Rambo takes 1/2 pill every 3-4 days (very low dose).


Sorry...rambled a bit there. The point I was making is that sometimes figuring out what's wrong with our kitties is a process of eliminating all other things and less about diagnosis. I wish you and Damita (and the vet) lots of luck as you continue to struggle through this. Don't give up!

Originally Posted by white cat lover

I feed her 6x a day, plus free fed dry. I've found a box to put her food bowl on to see if that helps. She eats mostly wet because of the high urine pH.

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try to get the bowl up 4-5". i started elevating my cats' bowls after we adopted stimpy. if it's not elevated or a certain size kibble, it comes straight back up. i've noticed that 3" isn't good enough. 4" does the job but could be better. and 5" seems to be the best.

i have one feeder we just bought, it's about 2" and i went to hobby lobby and bought a few supplies to elevate it. our other elevated feeder is an our pets one. the our pets feeder is a smidge too short. but our feeder on the home made stand is pretty great. i have 2 feeding stations to help deal with tensions that developed this spring. i used to have nice wrought iron feeder that was the perfect height. however, it was shaped like a cat, and stimpy was scared of one end of it.

Silly question - I know nothing about this sort of thing, but it couldn't be caused by stress could it? I know the kitty situation in your household isn't exactly the happiest

Originally Posted by sarahp

Silly question - I know nothing about this sort of thing, but it couldn't be caused by stress could it? I know the kitty situation in your household isn't exactly the happiest

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I honestly cannot say I am 100% sure it is not stress. But, Twitch never notices Damita(blind/deaf they just do not relate). Lily likes to whap Damita in the head, but its a game they play....Damita started it, too. Otherwise, Damita is stricly upstairs wtih just those two. She has no contact with Molly/Dory/Ophelia. I feel that, no this is not a stress thing.....but unless Damita tells me it is not stress, I cannot be sure.

Renny, I remember Rambo....all the posts, the "what do I do now?". I relate to that a lot right now....

Damita has a vet appt. for 2:45pm on Tuesday June 19th(a week from tomorrow). Hopefully, something can be done.

One more thing to throw out there....she's had stinky breath on & off. I'm going to have her teeth examined about that. But, she's also had icky ears. They seem to have a lot of "discharge", but she's never had an ear infection? So, she does drool & have ear discharge, I don't know if that matters.

I cannot take her to the U of M....I just can't. I do not want to push her that far.....I honestly don't have the money, but could get a loan....that's not why I won't take her. I won't take her because she would physically harm herself on the trip. She bloodies her nose on car rides, so she has a nylon carrier. But, she will attack herself now on long car rides.....she's terrified. It breaks my heart to think about putting her through any more than she is already going through. I just fear a vet visit to the U or M would do more harm than good.

If the vet turns up nothing useful, maybe you could sedate her for the trip if you thought it was worth it?

Hope she improves soon!!!!

Originally Posted by beandip

The K State Vet school website has a "menu" with prices for labwork. You can narrow the list by category...maybe kittymonsters would recognize if there's any certain suitable test on the list and/or comment on the prices.

http://www.vet.ksu.edu/depts/dmp/ser....asp?query=all

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Well a good basic start is the hallmark test for autoimmune diseases, the ANA or Antinuclear Antibody test. (under immunology) at KSU this is only $30.00