Sick kitty

Wow, I'm getting a whole lot of information here!
I just went out for 10 minutes, and I came back to find out Squeaky had pooped again on the couch, but this was a normal looking well-formed one.
Right now she's eating Medi-cal fibre formula from the vet and no wet food for the past few days but when she has it it's just Fancy Feast.
Actually my sister works at the humane society and I told her about Squeaky's problem but she didn't mention she could get her any help there. Guelph is an interesting idea, I was told it wouldn't be cheaper but it would be an option for sure if it is cheaper. I'm pretty sure that she can get me a free Laxatone though, now that I think of it.
For a time Squeaky was drinking more, I believe from the beginning of winter and it lasted for a few months. She was drinking noticeably more and drinking water from places other than her water bowl. For the past few days she has been drinking less. She loves to lick water from the side of a bottle of water fresh from the fridge, but she won't when I offer it now.
Her food dishes and litter are in my room and always have been, and since the first incident of bed-soiling in January, I've actually been sleeping on a crinkly plastic mattress protector.
It seems like she'll be spending her days locked in my room, with no air conditioning, until we get this sorted out.

More thinking.....

You're using Fancy Feast for what little wet food Squeaky's getting.....and you told how much she likes the "gravy", lapping it up, while leaving the meat.

I'm beginning to think that much of the gastrointestional problem may be related to all the grain-based (versus meat-based) food she's having.

Fancy Feast isn't the greatest food. There are people who will bash it (for a number of reasons, none of which, though, pertain to its safety). The fact is that many, many cats do well on it....and...it is extremely popular with cats (which is what counts when the most important thing is that they eat).

There are two "types" of Fancy Feast: one, with the gravy (which is mostly wheat gluten (grain) and water); and the second, without the gravy. The good thing is that the varieties without the gravy are still very "tasty"... translation: "popular" among cat consumers. Now, among the gravy-free varieties are two further distinctions: one, meat; two, fish. You should be giving more meat than fish...say a ratio of 4-1.

I'm strongly suggesting that first, you switch to the non-gravy varieties and, second, that you try giving more and more wet food than dry. (If you have a stock of FF gravied, chances the store will let you switch if you simply go back and tell them your mother "bought the wrong kind"...) Also, you can get FF cheaper than grocery store prices by watching for specials and by checking places like Petsmart. I noticed that Petsmart has had FF on special for the past 5-6 weeks for $.44. Periodically Zellers has it for $.33-$.39

Distinguishing varieties: This will help http://www.felinediabetes.com/glutenfree.htm
I find trying to read the labels requires a microscope, but that's a function of (shhhhhh!) age.

More wet than dry: I don't know if you could manage to swing two cans of wet food a day...? She won't eat the entire can at once, but go back and nibble thru the day. At the same time, reduce the amount of dry in her bowl substantially, but gradually....start with filling only 1/2 way and reduce from there.

If anyone else on the forum thinks differently, please feel free to comment/ contradict. I'm certainly no expert, just putting down what I've picked up over the past 2-3 months. And, I may not have "picked up" correctly!

I am pretty much in agreement with this, although, I absolutely admit to not knowing *anything* about Medi-cal foods. It would seem to me though, that if it's a "high-fiber" formula, that equates to a lot of carbs, and probably a high grain count? It seems to me that any number of kitties that have had digestive issues of any nature have a lot better luck on low carb no grains diets... but being that I'm recently enamored of the raw diet movement.. I can't really give any advice about what foods are right versus what foods are wrong. We need one of the nutritional experts around here to chime in?

I definitely don't have a dietary formula that I can give advice on because when I had this issue with Joyeux (granted, not to the extent and only regarding the constipation).. she was on a raw diet and it was a journey to figure out what worked (and high fiber supplements did not). Ultimately, it ended up being cat grass that made the difference in her diet and constipation. So, I'm definitely not going to say, put your kitty on a raw diet.. which may not even be an answer. Maybe we can get sharky to take a look at this thread? I can PM her..she's got knowledge of all sorts of different diets and foods, way beyond me!

I definitely agree that I think a high grain/high carb diet might be at least a partial cause of the problem.

CatsAreBetter, neither do I...
I wonder if this is the one http://www.medi-cal.ca/consumers/Feline/Fibre_EN.asp
(note 2 pages there)
Interesting that there's no analysis section - so, so much for the carb %, but look:flax, rice plus pea fibre, guar gum (?), cranberry meal. I thought the analysis had to be part of the label...???

...any number of kitties that have had digestive issues of any nature have a lot better luck on low carb no grains diets... but being that I'm recently enamored of the raw diet movement...

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I agree with you on the first part there, just based on everything I have read and heard. Now, to feed that diet doesn't necessarily require a raw diet. For example, what is already in use, the FF, less the "gravy", would get kitty to where she may need to be, I think.

Okay, from what I can see Medi-Cal is a Canada brand, but it is marketed in the USA under IVD-Select-Care. It's equivalent here is "Hifactor"

IVD Select Care HiFactor (weight control, constipation, diabetes)
%Protein:36.13
%phosphorus 0.810
%of sodium 0.42
%of fat: 12.18

IVD is now Royal Canin...I think it's now Royal Canin Select Care Hifactor, but I went to the Royal Canin site and cannot find that particular food listed... there is, however, a high fiber food listed there, but it's not the same name.

I'm going to re-read the previous messages later on and look into the food, but today things seem to be worse, I'm going to find out how much an emergency vet will cost today. She has thrown up more foam, and my mom left my door open when she went out so Squeaky briefly got out to the living room unattended. When I went out there I found not only #2 on the couch, but an enormous puddle of #1, with dribbles on the carpet and along the couch. She was sitting with me for a while but now she's hiding. I don't understand what's going on, she's never peed outside of the litterbox

I am glad your going to the er ... she may have a UTI...

I will if you want discuss feeding her later

Let us know how it goes at the vet. I think you're right in trying to find an emergency vet today.. the visit will cost a little more, but it's been my experience that the medications and so forth end up costing about the same, regardless of whether it's emergency or regular.

Sending healing vibes and wellness wishes. I'll be thinking about you guys.

Well my parents aren't willing to drive us to the vet tonight because they have other stuff to do, they said it will have to wait for tomorrow.
My dad has made it clear all day that he thinks it is pointless going, because though yes she is sick, she also has a behavioural problem on top of it because a normal cat wouldn't act like she is just because it is sick. So he's saying that even if they find out what's hurting her belly and making her sick, it's not going to stop her from pooping on his bed or couch again the next time she gets an upset tummy or is stressed over anything else. It just made it all the more final that she also peed on the couch, because she held it in this morning until she was let out of my room.
My dad asked if I'd like to see the vet one last time, and I'm going to. I don't know what they can say to change his mind, but of course it is worth a try.
Thank you everybody for your support

I think I may have an answer, but please check your messages first.

Just sending love to Squeaky! How is she today?

Batgirl, I think she's feeling the same as she has been, but the couch-peeing incident has made it scarier. I've put bags on the couch so I can sit out there with her since she's happier out there, and don't have to be so worried about her doing it again.

I've read over the earlier posts that I said I would. I could handle giving her two cans of wet food a day, but I have a hard time getting her a non-gravy kind that she will continue to eat. She will eat it one day then not eat it again. I'm sure I could work that out though. I understand about the gravy not being best for her, and I will try some of the kinds of fancy feast listed in the link as having low carbs and no wheat gluten. Are you saying that this medi-cal is also not a good brand? It says it has added complex carbohydrates, but are complex ones bad for her too?

Originally Posted by Unluckyblue

Batgirl, I think she's feeling the same as she has been, but the couch-peeing incident has made it scarier. I've put bags on the couch so I can sit out there with her since she's happier out there, and don't have to be so worried about her doing it again.

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I am also praying that your parents will be understanding about all this. I wish THEY would go to the vet with you and hear what he/she has to say.

sharky popped in and said unluckyblue can PM her about food.

Unluckyblue, I am sorry to dispute your dad, I'm sure as most everyone does, he has deferred to what he believes to be the expert opinion, he believes what the second vet has said which is ... it's a behavioral problem. A cat can and will go potty inappropriately when it is ill. Sometimes they just can't tell, or in the case of a urinary tract infection or something of that nature... it equates the litter box with where pain comes from. When the cat gets into the litter box, and tries to potty, it hurts. Therefore, in the kitty's mind, the litterbox is causing them pain. Your dad does not understand, as most people would not if they were not cat people, or had not experienced it, that this can be a cause of not using the litter box.

Please ask your vet to explain that some infections or problems *can* cause a cat to not use the litter box. It's obvious that the cat is not a priority in your parents' lives. I admit that I don't agree with it, but some people have different priorities than others and that's what makes this world go around. I feel, however, that YOU have different priorities than your family, or obviously you wouldn't be here trying to get help for your kitty.

Is your dad saying that you guys can take her to the vet tomorrow but basically it's to euthanise? Or is he saying that you can have one last chance to visit the vet and hope that the cat gets better, but if it doesn't then this is the last chance?

It's quite obvious that you're stuck in a situation that you're basically unable to do anything about between being at your parents house and they're at their wits end... not having the money to personally afford a vet.. I feel for you and your situation. I don't know what the outcome for Squeeky will be, even if you're given the time it takes to get her back on the right track (if it can be done). I guess what I'm trying to say here is that you're trying to do the right thing and you're fighting a lot of things that are blocking you. I hope, though, that if you're being forced to euthanise her without the express recommedation of your vet, that perhaps you may consider seeing if a rescue agency can take her or maybe if your boyfriend can take her if he's got his own place, or perhaps a dog crate for her until the problem is worked through? I understand your parents' impatience, as it would be something that would try your very last nerve if you were not a cat person (and sometimes even if you are), but I hope that you can find a way to give Squeeky every chance possible, and that may be seeing if someone else can help her or work with her at the very least until her issues calm down. Even if the vet finds out what it is, and has the appropriate cure handy, and you start it tomorrow... you're probably not going to see results within hours. You'll probably see some, but it's unlikely that Squeeky is going to be cured overnight.

I know you're trying really hard, and it's got to be really difficult for you. If there's anything I can do to help, please let me know. I totally understand and sympathize with what you're up against. If you want me to start doing research to find articles or something that would support it not being behavorial I can do that... then possibly you could print them out and give them to your parents? I just don't know what else to do to help you with this. If there's anything that you think they might listen to, that I can help with, I'll happily do my best to help you with it.

Heather, your very kind post made me cry. There are so many wonderful people here, and we are all praying for darling Squeaky.


***hugs UnluckyBlue***

My dad believed before the vet said it that it was behavioural, because he thinks my cat has completely lost her mind since her neurological thing / stroke. You have given a lot of good advice, Heather, and so have the others in this thread. Your support was very much needed and appreciated.
I'm sorry I wasn't clear, but Squeaky will not be put down tomorrow. My dad asked if I would like to see a vet one last time because he decided today that this is the end, and he won't put up with this anymore, he is giving me one last chance (while telling me I'm not going to get anything out of a vet visit). If it weren't for everybody's help I would have given in under the pressure of my dad and accepted it as inevitable, but thanks to you guys I feel like Squeaky has somewhat of a fighting chance. I have been such a wreck today and I can't imagine how much worse I would be without the help I've gotten here.
Thank you, Heather, but I don't want you to do any research for me! Everybody here is so wonderful. Thank you guys

Okay, I'm glad that he's going to cooperate with another vet visit. I honestly don't know if your kitty will ever be quite the same as she was before her first incident, which sounds like a stroke or a seizure to me but that's truly just a guess, but, often times animals recover *vastly* from that type of thing, and they're just slightly different. Just to give you some encouragement, my very very old dog had one. He was 12 when he had it (pretty old for a collie shepard mix), and it took him about two months to get to the point where he was walking up and down steps again, and he never did get back to the point where he was taking long walks around the lake with us anymore, but.. he recovered enough that he stayed with us for another three years. He was finally 15 years old when we had to put him to sleep. I think if he had been younger when it happened, he would have been with us for a good many more years. It wasn't until about the last six months with us that he was getting really bad.. mostly he was just his normal self with a slightly tilted, off-center head, and balance that wasn't quite as good as it used to be.

I think if you can figure out what is causing the problem, you've got a good chance with Squeeky. It may take a little while. You may want to consider seeing if a local shelter or rescue group has a kennel that you can borrow, or if you can find one on freecycle or craigslist in your area to keep her in until the issue is resolved, at least when you're not there to watch her or monitor her. I truly think that once it's figured out she'll be a good kitty and be using the litter box. I just don't want an accident during the time that she's getting over what it is that she is suffering from to upset your parents. If she's in a contained area and has those accidents, then you're more likely to be able to work past it, and hopefully your parents won't be as upset.

I'm so glad you're going to the vet tomorrow. I'll be thinking about you and Squeeky while I'm at work. Please keep us updated on her progress. We're all wishing the best for you!

Originally Posted by Unluckyblue

... I have been such a wreck today...

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WELL..YOU probably feel that way...BUT everybody on this thread can sense the stress that you, your family AND also Squeaky are feeling. NOW, The REST OF US have been able to watch you cope with all this, deal rationally with our questions in public and private messages, deal with your dad, comfort Squeaky, deal with all the emotions.....

I think all of the rest of us would unquestionably say that Squeaky is extremely fortunate to have YOU!